prinzSD

Does this measn PCS is no longer with GM. If so, it is about time he left and make some other people miserable with his prscence. Perhaps he is working to undermine BMW now. Edit. PCS..go f@#k yourself, I am sick of your $h!. Enzl could not have said it any better. Go to your BMW and leave us alone. Go clutter some BMW forum instead of polluting this forum. Your time has passed...move on.

No but you sure enjoyed reminding us about it. How does a turncoat like you end up working at GM? Since your signature is a BMW, why do you not go over and work at BMW. Oh I forgot, they don't hire people who love to undermine the company they work for or at least cheer it's demise. You sicken me.

Exactly, and if GM thinks Buick will fill the void and I will go out and buy one...well GM is dreaming. I will not buy a Buick and I will not buy a front wheel drive Chevy. Plain and simple. For every turd GM gave Pontiac, there was at least one car I liked, Trans Am, GTO and G8. Had GM fine tuned the lin up instead of dragging POS like G5, G3, Azteks, Sunfires etc, the story might have been different. Perhaps other people would have considered Pontiac had it been more focused.

They are chasing the market down and they will never catch it. Now they are about to lose another group of loyal customers with the closure of Pontiac.

Camino, They are afraid you will tell them like it is, so they ignore you and keep their heads in the sand.

So I got a dear John letter from the VP (I forgot her name) of the Buick-Pontiac-GMC division letting me know that they were killing Pontiac and the letter acknowledged the fact as a fan of Pontiac that I probably already had heard the bad news. She went on to say that GM acknowledged the fact that I was a loyal customer and that would assure me that my vehicles would continue to be serviced at the dealerships and how they were working hard to keep me as a customer. As soon as I get a chance I will reply for what it is worth. I will let them know their idea of keeping a loyal customer is by closing down his favorite marque even though it is the number three selling division in GM. That I was considering a G8, but now will pass because the resale value will suck ( I won't tell them I keep my cars for a long time, so resale value does not mean much to me) and that in another cost cutting measure will probably terminate producing parts much earlier for said G8 so now Pontiac is off my shopping list. In fact I will let them know that GM is OFF my list for my NEXT car because I believe GM is now irrelevent and no one will buy their cars now that they are in bed with Obama who is telling them what to do as a company. It looks like Ford will be the only American company left for me to consider. And if Ford goes away...then BMW will be on my list. As far as Chrysler, thsi whole Bankruptcy and Fiat bull$h! Obama was spewing last week means utter disaster for Chrysler and they will not survive either.

The problem is I fear there will not be an American car company left when I buy my next NEW car. If Ford is around and they have what I want, then I will consider. As far as I am concerned, if GM survives survives and that is a big IF, they have lost my loyalty. Apparently Cadillac will not have a V-8, the Camaro might not survive, the C7 Corvette is on hold...allsigns that GM will not survive to be a company whose cars will get my attention. An affordable, V8 powered rear wheel drive sedan or coupe with IRS are my minimum requirements for my next car. That will leave out BMW as well now that I think about it, as I will not pay 50,000 grand for a rear wheel drive, v-8 powered BMW.

I have always bough Pontiac besides my Corvette. If GM goes ahead with killing Pontiac, then I have no more excuses and I will buy a BMW. With me it will be Oldsmobile all over again...they will lose a lifetime customer for good. At this point it is f*ck GM executives who ran the company into the ground, f*ck the GM employees who undermine GM for their own agenda (you know who you are), f*ck the John Q public for not giving Detroit a chance, and finally f*ck the car Czars and Obama for interfering with GM. Buy the time I buy my next car, their might not be an American auto industry and I will through my lot in with the ex Nazi BMW. Harsh words, but I am PISSED off!

As FOG mentioned, have you lived with a 4th gen? I haven't... but I have driving a 3rd gen quite a bit... and I tried a 2002 Trans Am Coll Ed. The 3rd and 4th gen 'birds and Camaros lost touch with the consumer, becoming futuristic, swoopy and completely incompatible with real driving. The 3rd gen I drove, I hit my head on the roof regularly, and had to practically lie down to drive. Getting in and out was a nuts... getting out was a controlled roll out of the car with the hope of catching yourself before you face planted on the pavement. Every driveway and speed bump was a new gouge in the air dam or exhaust tips. Working on the thing was a PITA. The passenger lost valuable foot space to the catalytic. The 4th gen seemed worse. Yeah, I loved the 3rd and 4th gen F-bodies, but I can see why sales flagged. Of course, 11 and 10 year generation cycles hurt it as well. The new Camaro appears to not suffer from the bleeding edge of the 3rd and 4th gen Firebirds. It is liveable... like the first two generations. This is what future sports/muscle cars need... bad ass styling that doesn't require a contortionist to get money out of an ATM. As one who has lived with an 85 TA, well since 1985 and a daily driver 1993 TA since 1993 which is approaching 200,000 miles I am very aware of the pluses and minuses of the 4th gen in particular. I may be in the minority, but I am willing to live with some of the compromises in the 4 th gen design, like the low angled front windshield, low seating and a front end and rear quarter panels you can not see when parking. I chose to accept them because at the time nothing could touch the TA/Z28 for it preformance and price ratio. To this day, there are plenty of new cars that I can still blow away their doors. The sheeple are not willing to compromise. I like the idea od the 1st scenario, but the second scenario is a more viable plan for Pontiac. GM did the 5th gen camaro right and I think if they set their minds to it, they can do a proper TA, even if it has to be smaller and lighter. Just make sure it has a rebel attitude and the performance is there to back it up. Needless to say, if a new TA came out I would buy it and I don't care what the public thinks of Pontiac... I will smear it in their face at the stoplight and tracks. Edited: some spelling

I don't like that front end of the Camaro. It looks like something out of a JC Whitney catalog. The Vette looks like a cartoon but I do like the Volt in blue as well.

I agree. The plastic in my mother in laws Second gen Prius is so thin and flimsy to the touch I do not see how it will not crack in the summer heat after a few years.

Yep, if I can convince her out of her Japan is better mentality.

True, but how much longer will we have these cars if the wacko enviro weenies get their way.

Yes the LF-A. I heard it was on life support and Lexus will not make it.

It looks like my wife won't be upgrading to this ugly thing. When we bring our RX300 in for service we always get the 330RX loaner and we always wish we had the second gen RX, but now that the 3rd gen is so ugly, we will pass. The worst part is while the exterior is tolerable, the interior looks like it belongs in a minivan, shades of Nissans Quest with that bulbous center pod/dashboard. Ewww....

I agree. I take the Amtrak Capital Corridor from Martinez to San Jose and Amtrak uses Southern Pacific tracks so freight trains have first priority and there are times when we share the same track, we have to wait for the freight train to pass. On a good day it takes me a half hour to get the train station, another 2 hours and ten minutes for the train and fifteen minutes to walk to work for a round trip of 6 hours per day. If there are train accidents and there are plenty of fatalities on the Corridor which can take upwards of four hours to clear and let the trains through, it adds to the commute time. If I leave the same time in the morning and drive I can get to work in about an hour and fifteen minutes. I have to wait until 7:00/7:30 PM to leave work if I want to get home in an hour and fifteen minutes otherwise the drive can take at least 2 hours. I take the train beacause I am saving wear and tear on my car, saving gas and money, doing my part to lower emmisions and our dependence on oil, I can work on the train, sleep or watch a DVD. Many people chose to still drive because the feel they can not relinquish control of their commute and be at the mercy of train schedules. There are others that simply can not take the train because it does not get close enough to work without major headaches. Edited: for clarity

It is now January 28, 2009 and I have only seen one thus far and it was someone test driving it. I would say it seems to be a big flop. Mazzie Pontiac-GMC_Cadillac just recently built a brand new dealership for it's Hyndai line-up. A few months later they moved out of the new building and moved everything to the Mazzie Pontiac-GMC_Cadillac building. Bad timing I guess!

They did have vision. It was called the Aztek. It was just as ugly and it failed. Just like I hope this visionary ugly thing will fail.

Or the new Camaro, or the G8, or the CTS, etc

I agree, I will take a Volt instead. Oh wait, I don't have $40,000 for a Volt and if I did I would buy a slightly used C6 Vette to add to my car corral.

They are also recalling Yaris. According to Peter DeLorenzo, "Toyota is recalling more than 1.35 million Vitz (Yaris in the U.S.), Belta and Ractis cars globally to fix a defect in the seat belt, the exhaust system or both. 525,898 vehicles built from January 2005 to April 2008 in Japan will be recalled, as well as a combined 830,000 units in Europe, North America and other markets. It's clear now that Toyota's desire to become the No. 1 global automaker became an obsession, and their formerly impeccable quality reputation has been tarnished decisively." Not good for Toyota but the Toyota faithfull like my mother-in-law will never hear of this recall and continue to lambast my GM cars while extolling the virtues of Toyotas.

I have been always opposed to killing off more divisions. I always preferred how the POntiacs looked compared to Chevy and in some cases Buick. I would have never bought the Chevy or any other divisions car. But with the latest news coming out and this latest news of the CTS coupe being postponed, the Camaro delay and the possiblity that the Voltec version for Cadillac may not be built, I ahve accepted the notion it is time to kill Saturn, GMC, and even my favorite brand Pontiac. As long as GM builds great looking cars for Chevy and Cadillac, with great looking interiors, great quality and reliablity and depite my earlier stance on not buying anything but Pontiac, I will consider the products. All of this may result in GM losing cutomers like those that fled after Oldsmobile was closed but I would venture to say GM at the time did not have good consistent products in their other divisions for the Oldsmobile faithful to consider instead of moving to imports. The survival of GM at this point in more important then keeping my favorite division. it's clear GM does not have money to launch these new upcoming cars properly and has to postpone their introductions. Hate too say it but it is time to cut the losses and keeping Saturn until 2012 is not worth it. I can't believe I just said all of this.

Happily my wife let me buy my Vette.

Lame, why not chose the G8 GT which is a much better vehicle than the Torrent.

It's official...I am done with GM. They won't meet my future needs and so goodbye. As soon as my GM stock goes up I will sell it because I have no faith in any future GM. I don't buy the arguement that RWD will be curtailed by other manufactures. Clearly GM has no clue and as I stated in an other post that defending GM to friends and family has been difficult but now I no longer have any strength to defend GM. I will just shut up and not engage in any debate any more.