Sixty8panther

So you're a Ford guy who goes to a GM board to announce how cool a Mopar is?

I'm 28 and I feel the same. "Old Music" to me is Beethoven or perhaps 1930s Jazz... Newer music is 90s Metallica.

1. I've gone on record here SEVERAL times & said if GM does not make any hardtops in their future I'll probably never own a modern car again. My G/F will still probably buy a Camaro still but I'll just keep driving classics or I'll buy a gently used Mercedes CLK550 or CL550. 2. That having been said WTF should I buy a german car and not my favorite muscle car in the world? Why the hell shoudl any of us not expect perfection in the 5th gen. Camaro & the rest of the Zetas? We've waited over a decade for an affordable RWD sedan from GM, and we've waited over THREE decades for a hardtop from GM. So yes, I say the B-pillar better be a strip of rubber on the rear window and that's IT. 3. To those that say "just be happy it's styled like your favorite generation of F-body" I say to you: The first gen. Camaro was a car that would look ugly as sin in profile with a modern stlyle B-pillar. The lack of a b-pillar IS A CRUCIAL part of the design!

I've said how I feel. I'm done agruing about the Camaro. Time will tell. If the Camaro is done right it will not have a B-pillar, if they start cutting corners it will probably have a b-pillar, & the rest of the design will be watered down like the current gen. STS versus the A&S concepts like the Imaj & Evok. What I find funny is many of the people telling me I'm "petty" or stupid for caring about such a detail are the same ones who pick appart a cars interior with an electron-scanning microscope. I have never seen/heard so much PMSing over the buttons, switches, grain of the pleather on the dash or fit & finish of the airbag than on here. When people have a fu*%ing aneurysm about the HVAC vents on the CTS looking like NYC storm drains I do not agrgue with them for 5 pages. I say my peace I move on. We've all got different complaints. As far as my 48 year old Buick it was made in an era when Buick made 17 different body styles. EIGHT of those body styles were hardtops, three two-door Hardtops, FOUR flattop 4dr hardtops & the Mac-Daddy of them all: the E225 Riviera 4dr Bubbletop Hardtop. I'm just some dumb kid who can't afford a E225 Riv. which is my favorite body style. But since I'm "stuck" owning a two-door sedan I might add that my rear window is NOT glued in but rolls down just as all non-$h!y two-door car's rear windows should. As far as my all-consuming obsession with Hardtops, if you're questioning my motivaton/dedication to the cause I think I've already mentioned to you that I've been in contact with a gentleman out of Arizona who might trade me a 4dr hardtop straight up for my 2dr sedan. It's a win/win scenario.

THe Fiero was an awsome concept but it did not light the world on fire. Personaly I prefer Corvairs. I'd LOVE a two-door hardtop '69 Corsa.

Hannibal

All I'm saying is that I will NOT live with it. If the Camaro is a hardtop I WILL buy one, if it's a 2dr sedan I will not. It's a free country and that's how I'm spending my money.

O.B. said it all.

Vette Dude: Yes, you're 100% right. If the Camaro is a hardtop I will instead buy a piece of $h! Civic 2dr sedan made with steel half as thick as the Camaro's and that weighs a lot less than an American car like the Camaro. Surely a 70mph t-bone in a nice SEDAN will cause no harm to me or the other occupants of my car. Let's get real, you can live your life or you can live IN FEAR! I for one DO take a sideglance at intersections when my daughter is in the car. I have NEVER gotten into an accident with my daughter in the car. But guess what? Years form now Sofia will have grown up having riden in the back of some eat cars and I will have passed along my passion for cars to her, I'm giving her the childhood I wish I had. She rides in a childseat and is always strapped down, but more importantly I drive defensively.

Chris: Yes, I'm 28. I am stunned to hear that you honestly think that the bulk of the price differance in price between the upcoming $25-30K Camaro and the $46,975 to $55,675 MB CLK coupe is from the lack of a B-pillar. I think an honest estimate of the extra cost of the MB's hardtop design per-unit would not even be four digits. So let's call the cost to the consumer $1500. That is my educated guess, you know so I'm just a jackass but I'm pretty sure that MB charges that extra $20,000 for things like a seven speed automatic, including the TWO reverse gears, DOHC aluminum/magnesium V6/V8, keyless igntion, ESP, 10-way power seats with memory, Burl Walnut wood trim & the digital dual-zone climate control. http://www.mbusa.com/models/class-overview...=clk_class_main But your 2nd to last post seems ot be that the Mercedes is as expensive as it is simply because of its pillarless greenhouse. According to your theory the $51,000 E350 sedan should cost $31,000 since it is a sedan. Satty: Here's an idea: stop at stop signs & don't run red lights. That's how you avoid getting hit hard in the side of your car. Unlike you I have not had the honor of rolling a car or getting into a life threatening accident. I've tried to roll a car in the demolition derby but I guess I have not been so "lucky". Sorry but I do NOT agree that my Daughter would be in jeopardy riding in a 2010 Camaro haardtop. Maybe you could say that strapping down a toddler in a Kappa ragtop is pushing it but even then, it's HOW you drive not what you drive.

I was going to say.... we got the Camino coming down the pipe as well. Fan-f@#kin-tastic. I hope we get about two dozen different variants of the Zeta chassis. Viva La RWD.

I disagree... I love the ram air... and if I ever buy a V8 G8 I'll be sure to apply a flaming phoenix like on a '73 Firebird TA SD455.

Yeah... it's frustrating to see GM drop RWD sedans in 1996 like they were yesterday's newspaper, then spend a decade giving us millions of SUVs and DOZENS of models of FWD cars... and just when there's light at the end of the tunnel there's a cave in.

Balthazar: How is it possible to push start an automatic pre-59? What is the mechanical explanation to this? I would think the torque converter is what makes push starting an issue...?

Yup. Same here... BUT, was Charger4U talking about cars? Certain cars are the same way, but it's a good idea to use the clutch in 99% of cars just for wear & tear purposes. My Datsun has synchromesh gears & yet it is IMPOSSIBLE to get it out of one gear & into another w/ that car, even at speed with the RPMs matched. I've tried.

Since I work at a sign shop I had access to black reflective vinyl. I cut it out by hand and slapped it on for $h!ts & giggles. But yes, sometime soon I'm taking a credit card to it and scrapping it off. It's not at all permanent.

Jesus Christ. The W-body needs to die already. It's been obsolete since the last gen. Commodore and should have been thrown in the dust bin while WE should be making just as much RWD product as Australia but instead we have more & more & MORE craptastic FWD-ers. Zeta can NOT come fast enough.

Buddha

I see what people are saying... Cadillac aside (most of us are not on a budget to buy a new Caddy) there's not much for us in terms of RWD cars from GM. We had the GTO for a while but besides that & the F-body and even less practical Kappas we're out in the cold. Show me an affordable 4-dr (family car) from GM w/ RWD sold new in the USA between 1997 & 2007. (smack whoever called out Catera!)

not a very noteworthy spot but this guy is EVERYWHERE!

Toyota Sienna with a "666" in the license plate.

Agreed! 1. It looks like $hit. 2. It serves NO purpose 3. I'm a skinny dude but push come to shove after a bad accident even I would not be able to squeze out of a Bonneville or Park Ave. if the car was on fire but the door was stuck. It's quite often that I see these cars on the road and think WTF was GM thinking?

Camino gets it. This is exactly how I feel. The hardtop issue, mianstream RWD... lack of exciting styling in GMs lineup. ZETA is the answer to all these problems if done right. GM needs to put it's money where its mouth is! NOW!!! I;d love to buy a brandy-new in a few years. Or at least have the Chick replace her Infiniti with one, but I expect great things of Zeta. Not just a couple of lame rebadged sedans. So far the G8 looks promissig, the Camaro much more so! Hurry up GM!

Chris: Perhaps you need to get off your high horse. You're not Bob Lutz. If they can make a ragtop pass side impact crashes than a car taht amounts ot basically a ragtop WITH a fixed steel roof will have no problems. Wht is so damn dificult to understand about the fact that a hardtop is like a ULTRA safe ragtop with it's top up, if convertible fans can have their canvas roofs then WTF do you have for proof that the exact same car is unsafe or too difficult to engineer with a STEEL C-pillar & steel roof instead of canvas stretche over coat hangers? The ability to shoot photos of cars does not make you an expert in this field. Sorry. When is the last time you turned a wrench? Ever seen a 2007 MB CLK500 hardtop with it's guts removed to see just how much reinforcement there IS in the roof? It's not rcoket sience to make an extra thick A & B pillar you know. Much easier than an "affordable" IRS which I do NOT need or want but will have to pay or anyway.

Balthazar: Yeah... the 1959 2dr hardtop GMs I've seen all had their windows sunk ALL the way down. Yet to see a 2dr Buick ht other than yours. Ever. B-59s are NONEXISTANT in my neck of the woods. Can't tell you how many people have told me thier personal B-59 story and then said: "it's been YEARS since I saw a B-59!!!" Ddgefan: Nice hacksaw... I've threatened it with the Datsuns... it would be funny to make a 4dr hardtop Maxima. Then agai they sold Datsun 4dr hardtops in Australia, Japan & a few other places... This is a 4-cylider, Australian Spec. version of my Datsun that has NO b-pillar. Hanging seatbelts kind of ruin it though.