Home Electric and EV Charging Discussion

[David]

North East cost of electricity is done dirt cheap.

 

At least in Quebec....

OK, so how much per Kilowatt hr?

 

Washington state which is 100% Hyrdo powered and they just built a couple of huge wind farms on the Columbia river so do not know how that factors in, but we have always had almost the cheapest electric cost in the nation. One reason the aluminum plants all came here.

 

Our Home rate is 6.94 cents per Kilowatt hr. Only 2 other states are cheaper than us at 6.90 and 6.92. 

 

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/

 

Course on this Gov web site they show us as the cheapest in the nation.

 

http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/204.htm

 

So what is your rate?

[Drew Dowdell]

 

North East cost of electricity is done dirt cheap.

 

At least in Quebec....

OK, so how much per Kilowatt hr?

 

Washington state which is 100% Hyrdo powered and they just built a couple of huge wind farms on the Columbia river so do not know how that factors in, but we have always had almost the cheapest electric cost in the nation. One reason the aluminum plants all came here.

 

Our Home rate is 6.94 cents per Kilowatt hr. Only 2 other states are cheaper than us at 6.90 and 6.92. 

 

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/

 

Course on this Gov web site they show us as the cheapest in the nation.

 

http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/204.htm

 

So what is your rate?

 

 

I'm at 7.5 cpkwh.

[oldshurst442]

 

 

North East cost of electricity is done dirt cheap.

 

At least in Quebec....

OK, so how much per Kilowatt hr?

 

Washington state which is 100% Hyrdo powered and they just built a couple of huge wind farms on the Columbia river so do not know how that factors in, but we have always had almost the cheapest electric cost in the nation. One reason the aluminum plants all came here.

 

Our Home rate is 6.94 cents per Kilowatt hr. Only 2 other states are cheaper than us at 6.90 and 6.92. 

 

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/

 

Course on this Gov web site they show us as the cheapest in the nation.

 

http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/204.htm

 

So what is your rate?

 

 

I'm at 7.5 cpkwh.

 

 

http://www.hydroquebec.com/residential/understanding-your-bill/rates/residential-rates/rate-d/

 

 

- First 30 kWh/day 5.68¢/kWh

- Remaining energy consumption  8.60¢/kWh

 

 

Price of power  above 50 kW

 

In winter (period runs from December 1 through March 31 of the next year.)

-  $6.21/kW

 

In summer (period runs from April 1 through November 30)

- $3.15/kW

 

 

And there are other special rates such as doing your laundry during peak hours of energy usage versus doing your laundry during the wee hours of the morning when global usage is at a minimum...

 

And I think buying an electric vehicle and charging it at home also has special low usage rates as Quebec wants to promote EVs.

Edited October 27, 2015 by oldshurst442

[David]

WOW, that is cheap for the first 30KWh, so have you ever hit the 50 KWh rate? Amazing what they charge, $6.21 per KWh would make me want to change the home heating from electric to gas.

[Drew Dowdell]

I think he meant 6.21 cents/kWh.... not dollars.

[oldshurst442]

yeah...cents...

sorry...

 

As you could see the other two price quotes were in cents...

 

THAT would not be so cheap now would it?

 

(copy and paste problems...)

Edited October 27, 2015 by oldshurst442

[David]

yeah...cents...

sorry...

 

As you could see the other two price quotes were in cents...

 

THAT would not be so cheap now would it?

 

(copy and paste problems...)

 

I think he meant 6.21 cents/kWh.... not dollars.

 

But he did state it correctly, I followed the links and even the Canada government shows it as $6.21 per KWh. The web site unless I am miss understanding is wanting people to stay under the 30KWh thresh hold. Seems crazy expensive but that is what they post and say on the web site. 

 

Still electricity is cheap but they do have a big hit for heavy users according to the web site.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

yeah...cents...

sorry...

 

As you could see the other two price quotes were in cents...

 

THAT would not be so cheap now would it?

 

(copy and paste problems...)

 

I think he meant 6.21 cents/kWh.... not dollars.

 

But he did state it correctly, I followed the links and even the Canada government shows it as $6.21 per KWh. The web site unless I am miss understanding is wanting people to stay under the 30KWh thresh hold. Seems crazy expensive but that is what they post and say on the web site. 

 

Still electricity is cheap but they do have a big hit for heavy users according to the web site.

 

 

You're right, I found another PDF that lists that same rate.... but still, that is a LOT of energy for a residential place to use.  I went and looked at my bill and I'm only using an average of 12kWh - 15kWh per day... even with electric heat, I would think it would be hard to hit 3.3 times that. 

[oldshurst442]

 

yeah...cents...

sorry...

 

As you could see the other two price quotes were in cents...

 

THAT would not be so cheap now would it?

 

(copy and paste problems...)

 

I think he meant 6.21 cents/kWh.... not dollars.

 

But he did state it correctly, I followed the links and even the Canada government shows it as $6.21 per KWh. The web site unless I am miss understanding is wanting people to stay under the 30KWh thresh hold. Seems crazy expensive but that is what they post and say on the web site. 

 

Still electricity is cheap but they do have a big hit for heavy users according to the web site.

 

They do want us to stay under that threshold...but it is a typo...I thought I did that typo...but it really is 6.21 CENTS...and yes...we do get hit hard when we waste electricity...like I said...further into that website you will see different levels of usage...like using your washing machine to do your clothes during peak hours versus washing your clothes during dead hours.

 

They want to prevent drain of electricity needlessly.

Especially during the cold cold days of winter in January or February when the temperatures regularly EXCEED 40 below Fahrenheit.

That is when people use electricity the most....you know...heating their homes FULL blast.The WHOLE province undergoes this deep frost for days on end and THAT causes a strain for electric production...Hydro-Quebec has a hard time meeting those demands and they dont want to have some sort of problem when the citizens NEED their electricity the most...to which is having heat for their homes. So...even during the summer, when electricity is at its less demand...the Quebec Province wants to incorporate a habit of no wastage and smarter usage and usage of certain appliances when peak demand for electricity is needed for other things.

Example....there is no need to wash clothes at 6:00 PM....that is when cooking is made so using your stove is more of importance than washing clothes. Washing clothes can be made at 9:00 PM...or for those who can...at 2:00 PM... 

[oldshurst442]

Or I could be wrong...but I doubt that.

 

I just got my electric bill and on it it states that Ive used:

 

    from                           to                     days          kWh        Av. kWh/day             amount

2014-07-19           2014-09-09              53            1757                33                    $142.44

2014-09-10           2014-11-06              58            2518                43                    $212.42

2014-11-07           2015-01-12              67            9071               135                   $830.61

2015-01-13           2015-03-12              59           10741             182                    $992.89

2015-03-13           2015-05-12              61            5695                93                    $521.32

2015-05-13           2015-07-09              58             2019              35                     $168.31

 

Total:                                                     356           31 801             89                    $2867.99

 

 

I have a 2000 sq. ft home NOT including the basement with 2 kids and a wife.

Keep in mind that last year in Montreal was effin' cold and that I dont cheap out on heat...like ever. I keep the house in the winter at 22-23 Celsius or 72-73 Fahrenheit all the time.  Nor on washing clothes nor on electric equipment running in the house as I do have 2 kids and they require well, computers and TVs and washing their clothes at different times of the day...

 

What we are careful in is that any room that is not used, the lights are off.

[David]

That is an interesting take on managing when you do certain house hold choirs. So do they have higher energy home building standards than in the past to conserve energy?

 

Example here in Washington state, Homes built up till 1986 were all 2x4 walls, did not matter exterior or interior. They they stared to incorporate green code into home and business building. Now homes built today have to have 8 inch thick exterior walls with R22 minimum insulation. This compared to the 4 inch thick walls back in 1986 with an R4 insulation. Same with windows, Single pane 1986, then double pane 2 inch thick and now Triple pane 3 inch thick windows.

 

The whole idea is to minimize heat or cooling loss as well as power consumption. Amazing how quiet the new homes are especially with the way they are building them. Most homes now have the electrical, water, outlets, etc done on the exterior walls and they do a dense spray foam and then sheetrock. This makes the home very tight and quiet. Lower priced homes still have traditional instulation used but more and more they are going to spray foam to really quiet a home, seal it tight and make sure it is well insulated.

[oldshurst442]

That is an interesting take on managing when you do certain house hold choirs. So do they have higher energy home building standards than in the past to conserve energy?

 

Example here in Washington state, Homes built up till 1986 were all 2x4 walls, did not matter exterior or interior. They they stared to incorporate green code into home and business building. Now homes built today have to have 8 inch thick exterior walls with R22 minimum insulation. This compared to the 4 inch thick walls back in 1986 with an R4 insulation. Same with windows, Single pane 1986, then double pane 2 inch thick and now Triple pane 3 inch thick windows.

 

The whole idea is to minimize heat or cooling loss as well as power consumption. Amazing how quiet the new homes are especially with the way they are building them. Most homes now have the electrical, water, outlets, etc done on the exterior walls and they do a dense spray foam and then sheetrock. This makes the home very tight and quiet. Lower priced homes still have traditional instulation used but more and more they are going to spray foam to really quiet a home, seal it tight and make sure it is well insulated.

Yes...we also have that concept in Quebec.

I dont think its mandatory...yet...for  new home contractors to comply in building  energy efficient homes , but if a home owner buys an energy efficient  home, he gets subsidized by the Quebec government. Tax breaks and Welcome Tax rebates are applied.

 

Novoclimat is what this standard is called in Quebec. My home is a Novoclimat home.

 

What the government gives you back:

http://www.efficaciteenergetique.gouv.qc.ca/en/my-home/novoclimat/homes/#.Vi-kaCum3aQ

 

 

http://bonestructure.ca/en/ecohomes-through-novoclimat-20certification/

 

 

Now...what are those standards in insulation and stuff?

Im trying to find a website to list those standards, but I cant find any at the touch of my fingertip. I need to dig deeper.

 

 

The Quebec Government also subsidizes home owners that wish to convert their older homes into energy efficient ones also.

Edited October 27, 2015 by oldshurst442

[David]

 

That is an interesting take on managing when you do certain house hold choirs. So do they have higher energy home building standards than in the past to conserve energy?

 

Example here in Washington state, Homes built up till 1986 were all 2x4 walls, did not matter exterior or interior. They they stared to incorporate green code into home and business building. Now homes built today have to have 8 inch thick exterior walls with R22 minimum insulation. This compared to the 4 inch thick walls back in 1986 with an R4 insulation. Same with windows, Single pane 1986, then double pane 2 inch thick and now Triple pane 3 inch thick windows.

 

The whole idea is to minimize heat or cooling loss as well as power consumption. Amazing how quiet the new homes are especially with the way they are building them. Most homes now have the electrical, water, outlets, etc done on the exterior walls and they do a dense spray foam and then sheetrock. This makes the home very tight and quiet. Lower priced homes still have traditional instulation used but more and more they are going to spray foam to really quiet a home, seal it tight and make sure it is well insulated.

Yes...we also have that concept in Quebec.

I dont think its mandatory...yet...for  new home contractors to comply in building  energy efficient homes , but if a home owner buys an energy efficient  home, he gets subsidized by the Quebec government. Tax breaks and Welcome Tax rebates are applied.

 

Novoclimat is what this standard is called in Quebec. My home is a Novoclimat home.

 

What the government gives you back:

http://www.efficaciteenergetique.gouv.qc.ca/en/my-home/novoclimat/homes/#.Vi-kaCum3aQ

 

 

http://bonestructure.ca/en/ecohomes-through-novoclimat-20certification/

 

 

Now...what are those standards in insulation and stuff?

Im trying to find a website to list those standards, but I cant find any at the touch of my fingertip. I need to dig deeper.

 

 

The Quebec Government also subsidizes home owners that wish to convert their older homes into energy efficient ones also.

 

Washington does not give any rebates for home owners to update to a more efficient home but I would love it if they did.

 

Here is a web site that does a good job explaining the R value and how thick each value is.

 

http://www.buildings.com/article-details/articleid/6109/title/understanding-the-r-and-u-values-of-insulation.aspx

[oldshurst442]

Bringing this back to Tesla and EVs...

 

The Quebec government will soon release a huge incentives package to try to make EVs a majority of car sales in Quebec.

The plan is to put 100 000 EVs on Quebec roads by 2020.

 

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/quebec-announces-five-year-car-electrification-program

[Drew Dowdell]

Bringing this back to Tesla and EVs...

 

The Quebec government will soon release a huge incentives package to try to make EVs a majority of car sales in Quebec.

The plan is to put 100 000 EVs on Quebec roads by 2020.

 

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/quebec-announces-five-year-car-electrification-program

 

Wonder if they'll start to up the limit for owners who charge cars.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm breaking off a new thread here from the discussion in Tesla because I think it is interesting.  I'll move the off-topic posts into here.

[David]

Agreed that there is a big push to support more and more EV auto's. 

 

Web site of incentives by state for EV auto's.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/energy/state-electric-vehicle-incentives-state-chart.aspx

 

Washington state has these specific incentives:

 

$100 registration fee since you pay no fuel tax.

No sales tax on an EV purchase, current state sales tax is 10%, we have NO income tax.

Alternative fuel purchase credit of $5000 for autos up to 14K pounds, $10K on auto's 14,001 to 26,500 lbs and $20K on auto's over 26,501lbs. Incentive to go with EV, CNG, BioDiesel or Propane.

PSE, out local utility with the state will pay for a Level 2 charger installed in existing homes.

State starting with 2015 requires all new homes, condo's and apartments to have Level 2 chargers installed. 

 

Federal Incentives are as follows:

 

$2500 to $7500 credit based on the price of said alternative fuel auto's up till the manufacture hits 200K type auto's sold and then it is no more.

 

So what this means is that you can buy a chevy VOLT here in washington and get $12,500 off at time of purchase at the dealership, pay no sales tax and have the state with PSE install a Level 2 charger at your home.

 

Makes a VOLT very enticing. Makes one excited for the BOLT also.

[David]

Thanks Drew, agreed, this is a much better and interesting thread on this topic. I just posted in the other, please move my response over as I think many will find it interesting.

 

Thank you,

[David]

Or I could be wrong...but I doubt that.

 

I just got my electric bill and on it it states that Ive used:

 

    from                           to                     days          kWh        Av. kWh/day             amount

2014-07-19           2014-09-09              53            1757                33                    $142.44

2014-09-10           2014-11-06              58            2518                43                    $212.42

2014-11-07           2015-01-12              67            9071               135                   $830.61

2015-01-13           2015-03-12              59           10741             182                    $992.89

2015-03-13           2015-05-12              61            5695                93                    $521.32

2015-05-13           2015-07-09              58             2019              35                     $168.31

 

Total:                                                     356           31 801             89                    $2867.99

 

 

I have a 2000 sq. ft home NOT including the basement with 2 kids and a wife.

Keep in mind that last year in Montreal was effin' cold and that I dont cheap out on heat...like ever. I keep the house in the winter at 22-23 Celsius or 72-73 Fahrenheit all the time.  Nor on washing clothes nor on electric equipment running in the house as I do have 2 kids and they require well, computers and TVs and washing their clothes at different times of the day...

 

What we are careful in is that any room that is not used, the lights are off.

WOW, Thank you for posting your costs on electricity. My average electric bill  over the year is just under $175 per month. Course we never have the cold winters you have and I do have Natural Gas as a heating but even during the coldest parts of winter combined I never go over $300 combined electric and natural gas bill. A $1,000 monthly electric bill is just amazing to see.

[Drew Dowdell]

That is a LOT of incentive to go with an EV!

 

Do you guys get Solar Rebates for installing household solar as well?*

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Disclaimer, I work for a company that, among other products and services, offers residential and commercial solar installation and financing.  I am not endorsing any particular product or service in this discussion. 

[oldshurst442]

 

Bringing this back to Tesla and EVs...

 

The Quebec government will soon release a huge incentives package to try to make EVs a majority of car sales in Quebec.

The plan is to put 100 000 EVs on Quebec roads by 2020.

 

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/quebec-announces-five-year-car-electrification-program

 

Wonder if they'll start to up the limit for owners who charge cars.

 

Nope. Actually, Hydro-Quebec (its a crown corporation) will reduce its rates to  EV owners who charge their cars at home. They already subsidize home chargers...OK...they subsidize the standard chargers and not the super ones....but still.

[oldshurst442]

You could move another post I made in the other thread Drew.  Did not see this one...

[Drew Dowdell]

Or I could be wrong...but I doubt that.

 

I just got my electric bill and on it it states that Ive used:

 

    from                           to                     days          kWh        Av. kWh/day             amount

2014-07-19           2014-09-09              53            1757                33                    $142.44

2014-09-10           2014-11-06              58            2518                43                    $212.42

2014-11-07           2015-01-12              67            9071               135                   $830.61

2015-01-13           2015-03-12              59           10741             182                    $992.89

2015-03-13           2015-05-12              61            5695                93                    $521.32

2015-05-13           2015-07-09              58             2019              35                     $168.31

 

Total:                                                     356           31 801             89                    $2867.99

 

 

I have a 2000 sq. ft home NOT including the basement with 2 kids and a wife.

Keep in mind that last year in Montreal was effin' cold and that I dont cheap out on heat...like ever. I keep the house in the winter at 22-23 Celsius or 72-73 Fahrenheit all the time.  Nor on washing clothes nor on electric equipment running in the house as I do have 2 kids and they require well, computers and TVs and washing their clothes at different times of the day...

 

What we are careful in is that any room that is not used, the lights are off.

 

It looks like you're billed on 2 month cycles?  Quick division says that at your worst, you were paying 9.2 cents per kWh from January to March.  Not terrible, but not great when you're using 10k kWhs.

 

What fuel do you use to heat your house and have you looked at alternatives?

 

My electric bill just dropped in half to $80 a month on budget billing and I expect it to drop even further over the next year.  I just had a new high efficiency furnace and A/C system installed.   I used to have window A/C units and my gas furnace was 65 years old.  Oddly, we used more electric in the winter than in the summer because the blower on that old furnace burned up so much electricity that the lights would dim when it kicked on.

 

I also had the electrical box upgraded from 60amp fuse service to 150amp breakers.  I had them leave a provision for another 220 line in case I need a car charger in the future.

[David]

That is a LOT of incentive to go with an EV!

 

Do you guys get Solar Rebates for installing household solar as well?*

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Disclaimer, I work for a company that, among other products and services, offers residential and commercial solar installation and financing.  I am not endorsing any particular product or service in this discussion. 

Yes, Washington state is pushing hard on the Solar rebate front also.

 

So here is the rebates for Washington:

 

• PV: $300/kW-DC per unit installed, so this goes up depending on how big a system you install.

  Residential PV: $2,000 for installation

•  
• Eligible System Size:
  PV: Up to 100 kW-DC
• • Incentive Amount:
    Refrigerator Recycling: $30 per unit

    Insulation: 50% of job cost

    Double-Pane Windows: $6 - $8 per square foot

    Duct sealing & insulation: $5 per l.f.

    Geothermal Heat Pumps: 50% of job cost

    Heat Pumps: 50% of job cost

    Lighting: $20 discount

    Home Energy Saving Kit: free

  • Maximum Incentive:
    Insulation: $1,200 (Attic), $1,800 (Floor), $1,000 (Wall), $400 (Ductwork) 

    Windows: $1,000

    Air-Source Heat Pumps: $2,500

    Ductless Heat Pumps: $1,200

    Geothermal Heat Pumps: $2,500

    Duct sealing & insulation: $800

  • There is also the federal rebates on Solar which is they will cover 30% of the purchase price.
  • http://energy.gov/savings/residential-renewable-energy-tax-credit

[oldshurst442]

That is a LOT of incentive to go with an EV!

 

Do you guys get Solar Rebates for installing household solar as well?*

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Disclaimer, I work for a company that, among other products and services, offers residential and commercial solar installation and financing.  I am not endorsing any particular product or service in this discussion. 

I think we do.

 

The requirements are in one of the links that I posted earlier.

But let it be known though....Quebec is a fickle bitch...some technologies are not loved by the Province of Quebec...so Im not too sure which ones are and which technologies are not.  I never thought of solar panels so I dont know too much about them and how Quebec feels  about it.

 

At DFELT

 

Yeah...Hydro-Quebec offers EPP...an equal payment plan to which the costs are averaged over the course of the year so each month comes to the same amount...which for me..was $208/month...

Notice I said was...$208/month

 

Our rates went up last year and for two years in a row...very cold winters...my new per month bill will be around $240/month...yeah...it shot up $30/month

[oldshurst442]

 

Or I could be wrong...but I doubt that.

 

I just got my electric bill and on it it states that Ive used:

 

    from                           to                     days          kWh        Av. kWh/day             amount

2014-07-19           2014-09-09              53            1757                33                    $142.44

2014-09-10           2014-11-06              58            2518                43                    $212.42

2014-11-07           2015-01-12              67            9071               135                   $830.61

2015-01-13           2015-03-12              59           10741             182                    $992.89

2015-03-13           2015-05-12              61            5695                93                    $521.32

2015-05-13           2015-07-09              58             2019              35                     $168.31

 

Total:                                                     356           31 801             89                    $2867.99

 

 

I have a 2000 sq. ft home NOT including the basement with 2 kids and a wife.

Keep in mind that last year in Montreal was effin' cold and that I dont cheap out on heat...like ever. I keep the house in the winter at 22-23 Celsius or 72-73 Fahrenheit all the time.  Nor on washing clothes nor on electric equipment running in the house as I do have 2 kids and they require well, computers and TVs and washing their clothes at different times of the day...

 

What we are careful in is that any room that is not used, the lights are off.

 

It looks like you're billed on 2 month cycles?  Quick division says that at your worst, you were paying 9.2 cents per kWh from January to March.  Not terrible, but not great when you're using 10k kWhs.

 

What fuel do you use to heat your house and have you looked at alternatives?

 

My electric bill just dropped in half to $80 a month on budget billing and I expect it to drop even further over the next year.  I just had a new high efficiency furnace and A/C system installed.   I used to have window A/C units and my gas furnace was 65 years old.  Oddly, we used more electric in the winter than in the summer because the blower on that old furnace burned up so much electricity that the lights would dim when it kicked on.

 

I also had the electrical box upgraded from 60amp fuse service to 150amp breakers.  I had them leave a provision for another 220 line in case I need a car charger in the future.

 

ELECTRICITY...and only electricity is the fuel I use.

 

Im thinking about installing a thermal pump. When I built the house, I had all plumbing and electrical wiring done to accommodate a thermal pump.

 

Yeah...two month cycles...and yeah...it is that expensive in the winter...and it was cold during December-March last year....2 years in a row. And...this year, rates went up in April 2015, so, if El Nino does not kick in and we get another record breakin cold winter, it will be probably more than 9.2 cents.

[Drew Dowdell]

Dfelt, on a typical house, it sounds like a $1500 rebate with a max of $2000.  There would need to be other rebates and subsides available to make solar financially worthwhile there if it will take off.   In MA and NY, all of the subsidies stacked can take up to 65% of the price of the install. 

 

Still, it would be nice to have an EV and charge it at home using some solar to do so. 

 

 

Or I could be wrong...but I doubt that.

 

I just got my electric bill and on it it states that Ive used:

 

    from                           to                     days          kWh        Av. kWh/day             amount

2014-07-19           2014-09-09              53            1757                33                    $142.44

2014-09-10           2014-11-06              58            2518                43                    $212.42

2014-11-07           2015-01-12              67            9071               135                   $830.61

2015-01-13           2015-03-12              59           10741             182                    $992.89

2015-03-13           2015-05-12              61            5695                93                    $521.32

2015-05-13           2015-07-09              58             2019              35                     $168.31

 

Total:                                                     356           31 801             89                    $2867.99

 

 

I have a 2000 sq. ft home NOT including the basement with 2 kids and a wife.

Keep in mind that last year in Montreal was effin' cold and that I dont cheap out on heat...like ever. I keep the house in the winter at 22-23 Celsius or 72-73 Fahrenheit all the time.  Nor on washing clothes nor on electric equipment running in the house as I do have 2 kids and they require well, computers and TVs and washing their clothes at different times of the day...

 

What we are careful in is that any room that is not used, the lights are off.

 

It looks like you're billed on 2 month cycles?  Quick division says that at your worst, you were paying 9.2 cents per kWh from January to March.  Not terrible, but not great when you're using 10k kWhs.

 

What fuel do you use to heat your house and have you looked at alternatives?

 

My electric bill just dropped in half to $80 a month on budget billing and I expect it to drop even further over the next year.  I just had a new high efficiency furnace and A/C system installed.   I used to have window A/C units and my gas furnace was 65 years old.  Oddly, we used more electric in the winter than in the summer because the blower on that old furnace burned up so much electricity that the lights would dim when it kicked on.

 

I also had the electrical box upgraded from 60amp fuse service to 150amp breakers.  I had them leave a provision for another 220 line in case I need a car charger in the future.

 

ELECTRICITY...and only electricity is the fuel I use.

 

Im thinking about installing a thermal pump. When I built the house, I had all plumbing and electrical wiring done to accommodate a thermal pump.

 

Yeah...two month cycles...and yeah...it is that expensive in the winter...and it was cold during December-March last year....2 years in a row. And...this year, rates went up in April 2015, so, if El Nino does not kick in and we get another record breakin cold winter, it will be probably more than 9.2 cents.

 

 

Not an external heat pump?!  I thought those don't work below about 15 degrees F?  You mean something like Geothermal, right?

 

You'd be better off installing natural gas if it's available near you....

[oldshurst442]

Yeah...geothermal.

This is not an area of expertise that I have    , so bare with me.

 

And unfortunately, natural gas is not available in my area. Otherwise I would have opted for it from the get go.

 

I love cooking with gas, either in the kitchen or BBQ...I would have connected my BBQ directly to the home lines...no more stupid empty propane gas tanks and running to fill them up every so often!!!        (maybe open flames and gas lines are not such a good idea... ) (I am talking about that flaming emoticon....yeah...I know...yet another corny joke....Im full of them.)

 

My business partner just bought himself a Tesla Model S P85D...he showed me what Tesla wants to do with a home battery system set-up...maybe that wuld be in the cards too...to power the electric heater I got.

Edited October 27, 2015 by oldshurst442

[David]

Dfelt, on a typical house, it sounds like a $1500 rebate with a max of $2000.  There would need to be other rebates and subsides available to make solar financially worthwhile there if it will take off.   In MA and NY, all of the subsidies stacked can take up to 65% of the price of the install. 

 

Still, it would be nice to have an EV and charge it at home using some solar to do so. 

 

So I had a look at doing Solar on my roof, The quote came in at $25K which would give me a solar grid that is 35 feet by 65 feet on my roof. The big benefit is that the Utility is required to pay you the same rate they charge you for electricity, so based on how big my solar roof would be, I would actually break even each month if not have a positive gain being paid back to me. In 2014 the rebate was up to $6500 but for 2015 they only went with a maximum of $2K. There is a big push to up the rebate again but it will not be taken up till January 2016. So be interesting to see what they offer. Plus there is the federal 30% installation cost coverage to take into account also.

[Drew Dowdell]

If you can get $6500 + 30% tax credit + Net Metering..... you go for it right away... don't wait as you don't know when the rebates will be back again

[oldshurst442]

So...I just googled Tesla and the powerwall...

 

As my partner was explaining it to me (I was still in awe of him mentioning to me he bought a P85D) ...I did not quite catch that the battery works with solar panels that convert the suns energy into electricity that gets stored and recharges  the battery which in turn inverts that DC electricity into AC to power your home...

 

I was under the impression that the battery gets recharged with the Hydro-Electric power lines....this is an even better idea...solar panels...other than the cost of buying and installing....free energy.

Edited October 27, 2015 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

Yeah...geothermal.

This is not an area of expertise that I have    , so bare with me.

 

And unfortunately, natural gas is not available in my area. Otherwise I would have opted for it from the get go.

 

I love cooking with gas, either in the kitchen or BBQ...I would have connected my BBQ directly to the home lines...no more stupid empty propane gas tanks and running to fill them up every so often!!!        (maybe open flames and gas lines are not such a good idea... ) (I am talking about that flaming emoticon....yeah...I know...yet another corny joke....Im full of them.)

 

My business partner just bought himself a Tesla Model S P85D...he showed me what Tesla wants to do with a home battery system set-up...maybe that wuld be in the cards too...to power the electric heater I got.

 

With home heating bills like that, I would think a geothermal system would pay off in 15 years, sooner if you get any rebates or credits.... plus your house would increase in value by about 75% of the cost of the system you installed.    Fairly easy math if you can swing it financially.

[oldshurst442]

If you can get $6500 + 30% tax credit + Net Metering..... you go for it right away... don't wait as you don't know when the rebates will be back again

I second this.

[oldshurst442]

 

Yeah...geothermal.

This is not an area of expertise that I have    , so bare with me.

 

And unfortunately, natural gas is not available in my area. Otherwise I would have opted for it from the get go.

 

I love cooking with gas, either in the kitchen or BBQ...I would have connected my BBQ directly to the home lines...no more stupid empty propane gas tanks and running to fill them up every so often!!!        (maybe open flames and gas lines are not such a good idea... ) (I am talking about that flaming emoticon....yeah...I know...yet another corny joke....Im full of them.)

 

My business partner just bought himself a Tesla Model S P85D...he showed me what Tesla wants to do with a home battery system set-up...maybe that wuld be in the cards too...to power the electric heater I got.

 

With home heating bills like that, I would think a geothermal system would pay off in 15 years, sooner if you get any rebates or credits.... plus your house would increase in value by about 75% of the cost of the system you installed.    Fairly easy math if you can swing it financially.

 

I think I could get rebates and credits from that eco subsidies the province allows...plus an additional home renovation credit on my taxes...I think our current Prime Minister re-instated that...tax credits on ANY home renovation...

So yeah...it is something I was thinking about doing next summer actually.

[Drew Dowdell]

So...I just googled Tesla and the powerwall...

 

As my partner was explaining it to me...I did not quite catch that the battery works with solar panels that convert the suns energy into electricity that gets stored and recharges  the battery which in turn inverts that DC electricity into AC to power your home...

 

I was under the impression that the battery gets recharged with the Hydro-Electric power lines....this is an even better idea...solar panels...

 

Well, you're both right.  The Powerwall can/will recharge from whatever system it has available at the time.  Some places like Texas have very cheap electricity rates at certain times of the day or on certain days.  The power wall can be programmed to recharge during the low cost time periods and discharge during the high cost time periods.  If you have net metering, it can even be programmed to release the low price energy back to the grid during high price times and you can make money on it.

 

All of that is completely independent of whether you have rooftop solar or not.

 

If you have a solar setup, a Powerwall charge cycle might look something like this.

 

1. 9am - 11am - Solar provides energy to the house with Powerwall picking up the slack... any excess is sold to the grid

2. 11am - 5pm - Solar recharges Powerwall, anything Powerwall can't take, sell to the grid.

3. 5pm - 7pm - High grid prices, high household usage. Solar and Powerwall combine to avoid grid activity, if household usage is low, sell power from the Powerwall back to the grid to make money.

4. 7pm - 9pm - High grid prices, high household usage, solar is done for the night. Powerwall is in full discharge mode to avoid pulling from the grid.

5. 9pm - 12am - medium grid prices, lower household usage, powerwall close to spent, switching to grid as primary source

6. 12am - 8am - lowest grid prices, lowest household usage, powerwall and the Model S in the garage recharging from the grid. 

 

 

The bigger the Powerwall, the more wiggle room you have to either not use grid power or to sell collected energy back to the grid.   But even if you don't have solar, Powerwall can use net metering to save, or even make money. 

[David]

I like the concept of the WALL from Tesla, this could be an outstanding way to live off grid if one wanted to and could afford a big enough bank for the house with solar grid.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm not sure you could live completely off-grid unless you're Elon and can afford a LOT of Powerwall. 

[David]

Hyper, I think we're talking past each other.  Offering Superchargers was a necessity. Offering the use of them for free is a courtesy. 

 

At the corporate level, no, the companies aren't making just token moves.  There are big companies making big investments into solar, and along with other power analysis systems, finding ways to save large amounts of money on their energy spend.  We don't just slap panels on the roof and call it a day, we analyze how and where they are using their power and do efficiency projects first, then we put the solar up.

 

When you have a lot of real estate with a lot of flat roof area, the payback time for a solar installation shrinks dramatically. Companies can also lease out their roof to us for a percentage of the energy generated, and we get to sell the power into the grid at market rates. It becomes a no-cost install for that company and their energy bills go down.  We have the advantage of scale and can buy the solar panels cheaper because we're buying so many.

 

These types of services are what my employer offers, we're fairly large company, and still growing fast.  We wouldn't be growing this fast with just token moves. 

Drew, the solar solutions you do are they other than size that much different than a solution you would do on a home? Also what are your thoughts on the solar solutions that are currently being sold such as by Costco?

 

http://www.costco.com/CatalogSearch?catalogId=10701&langId=-1&keyword=solar&storeId=10301&refine=13223%2b

[Drew Dowdell]

 

Hyper, I think we're talking past each other.  Offering Superchargers was a necessity. Offering the use of them for free is a courtesy. 

 

At the corporate level, no, the companies aren't making just token moves.  There are big companies making big investments into solar, and along with other power analysis systems, finding ways to save large amounts of money on their energy spend.  We don't just slap panels on the roof and call it a day, we analyze how and where they are using their power and do efficiency projects first, then we put the solar up.

 

When you have a lot of real estate with a lot of flat roof area, the payback time for a solar installation shrinks dramatically. Companies can also lease out their roof to us for a percentage of the energy generated, and we get to sell the power into the grid at market rates. It becomes a no-cost install for that company and their energy bills go down.  We have the advantage of scale and can buy the solar panels cheaper because we're buying so many.

 

These types of services are what my employer offers, we're fairly large company, and still growing fast.  We wouldn't be growing this fast with just token moves. 

Drew, the solar solutions you do are they other than size that much different than a solution you would do on a home? Also what are your thoughts on the solar solutions that are currently being sold such as by Costco?

 

http://www.costco.com/CatalogSearch?catalogId=10701&langId=-1&keyword=solar&storeId=10301&refine=13223%2b

 

 

I get a server error on that link.

 

I have to disclaim that I am not in any way a solar power expert... I am just repeating things that I am picking up at work.

 

Our solar installations are fundamentally the same regardless of size.   The controller technology we use is slightly different and lets us get a little extra production out of a pack of cells, but otherwise it is the same as any other tech.

 

What we excel at is energy usage advice.  We can go into a factory and get granular visibility on all of the various devices that use energy to see where savings might be had.  We can also make recommendations on changing of production schedules that will save money in areas where there is smart metering and variable rate pricing.  One example we were shown yesterday, a factory uses 4 giant dust collecting devices.  We we put monitors on the whole plant but one of the dust collectors was using triple the amount of energy.  Through our analysis the company found that the motor, while still operational, was starting to go bad.   Spending the money to replace that motor, that again was otherwise operational, will save this company over $50k a year in energy costs.   The service we provide is on-going, so companies can spot issues like that.

 

 We focus on making the business as energy efficient as possible first before we evaluate for solar.  No point putting solar panels on the roof when all of that energy is going to be eaten up by inefficient lighting and HVAC. 

[David]

weird that the link did not work for you as I clicked on it and it took me to the Costco page for Grape Solar systems. 

 

Cool to know you are spotting places that companies can address to reduce waste and improve efficiency.