Detroit 2019: 2019 Subaru WRX STi S209: Comments

[A Horse With No Name]

Instead of a traditional minivan...Pacifica.

[dwightlooi]

16 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Lancer evo has an utter garbage interior and really is hideously ugly.

9 speed isn't terrible behind the V6.

Yes, the Lancer does have a sh!tty interior, but so does the Imprezas including the WRX STi Editions. These are supposed to be Kamikaze AWD Superhero Economy Cars.

The 9-Speed is garbage because it BREAKS. It'll suddenly start slam shifting from 1st through 3rd with the torque converter clutch still engaged which feels like getting rear ended. It'll also go into neutral and shutdown while you are driving, and you'll need to pull over, turn off the engine, lock the car, unlock the car, restart the car to reset. It has nothing to do with output of the engine or driving aggressively so V6 or not doesn't matter.

Edited January 23, 2019 by dwightlooi

[A Horse With No Name]

Good to know on the 9 speed. I like Cadillac but not really a caddy kind of a guy...so Import it probably will be.

Strongly prefer WRX to Evo but that is pretty much the way I roll.

[A Horse With No Name]

Did not also realize that there is a class action lawsuit against Chryco on the 9 speed.

[A Horse With No Name]

The above being said...holy crap batman...both WRX and Evo have fallen a bit in resale value around here. Yes...I like the WRX better but a couple of the Evos at the Buckeye Miata Club autocross do well. And looking at used CTS...prices falling there also.

Going to have fun buying the next car.

[dwightlooi]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

The above being said...holy crap batman...both WRX and Evo have fallen a bit in resale value around here. Yes...I like the WRX better but a couple of the Evos at the Buckeye Miata Club autocross do well. And looking at used CTS...prices falling there also.

Going to have fun buying the next car.

The best and least cluttered Evo is the Evolution IV with the low profile spoiler. Unfortunately, you don't get it in the USA. The Evo IX is the next most desirable version. The Evo VIII is ugly with the elephant trunk grille. The Evo X is not too bad looking, but it gained 300 lbs and has the 4B11 engine shared with Chrysler and Hyundai. The 4B11 is LESS refined and LESS durable than the old 4G63. Less refined because it eliminated the Balance Shafts. Less Durable because it has a die cast, semi-open deck block, whereas the 4G63 is has a super durable closed deck iron block.

[riviera74]

Then why doesn't Subaru bring all of its best products here?

[A Horse With No Name]

2 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Then why doesn't Subaru bring all of its best products here?

We get short changed on all kinds of interesting stuff.

[dwightlooi]

3 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

We get short changed on all kinds of interesting stuff.

Because...

#1 Americans weren't really into Kamikaze AWD Superhero Sport Compacts.

#2 The WRX STi is no longer particularly high performance in today's context.

[oldshurst442]

27 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

We get short changed on all kinds of interesting stuff.

Not really.

We get the good stuff.  Maybe not the super special one-off Japanese or German sporty stuff, but we get most of it. We did not get the Skylines or the Euro spec only BMW M3 from 1992 or 1993 and other cool stuff, granted. But hey, we got to produce our own cool stuff.  The Prowler, The SSr.  V8 FWD cars like in Northstar powered Olds, Pontiacs and Caddys and LT1 based 5.3 liter WBody cars.   All kinds of pick-up tuck stuff. 

The Fusion Sport is kinda cool.  The Buick Regal GS is kinda cool. The Tesla Model 3 is kinda cool. All Cadillac V Series cars are kinda cool. All the Hemi stuff is kinda cool. Hellcat, Scatpack or even just the regular V8 Charger...

The Ford ST and RS stuff is kinda cool. I know we just bashed some of that just now, but those cars are still kinda cool though.  Its just that we like to look down on our stuff and over value the foreign stuff...

We also produce the good stuff and we consume it in excess.  Mustangs, Corvettes, Raptors, V10 Dodge Rams, Chevrolet 454 SS pick-up trucks, Typhoons, Syclones, Scatpack and Hellcat Challengers and Chargers and Trailhawks and off roading Wranglers...

There are other good stuff that we just dont consume and let it die off and then we only miss it when its gone...

Pontiac G8s, Pontiac GTOs, Pontiac Trans Ams, Cadillac CTS V Wagons, Chevrolet SSs and RWD Chevrolet Impalas and Caprices, and the like.. 

All V8s you say?

Well, there was never anything wrong with a  Cavalier Z24,  Pontiac Grand Am Quad 4,  Olds Calais 442, Beretta GTZ, Cobalt SS, Pontiac Fiero V6,  FWD W-Body 3.8liter supercharged cars, per se.    OK...some of those engines could have been a tad more gasket problem free...

We also think that the grass is greener on the other side and wish we got some forbidden fruit our way, yet, other places, ironically, think that way about our stuff and its our stuff to them that is their forbidden fruit...

The Ford Mustang is finally sold all over the world and its selling like there is no tomorrow.   Our old skool Cadillacs and muscle cars are being restored and sent over to Europe(Finland, Sweden, Norway) the Middle East, in record numbers...

 

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by oldshurst442

[daves87rs]

Call me a bit 90s here, but I would rather build a fast car than buy one...

Much more fun to drive when they are custom.......

[David]

On 1/22/2019 at 11:12 AM, ykX said:

Here we go again comparing new vs used and apples vs oranges ...

Very Valid comparison as a Smart buyer Should evaluate a new auto and price versus what they can get in the CPO market and decide if the new over CPO is worth it to them. Honestly hard to justify buying a new auto anymore.

[ykX]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

Very Valid comparison as a Smart buyer Should evaluate a new auto and price versus what they can get in the CPO market and decide if the new over CPO is worth it to them. Honestly hard to justify buying a new auto anymore.

The argument of value of new vs used car can NEVER be won.  Give me one example where for the price of new car you can not buy something better used?

It is smart to get the best for your money which in most cases is a used car but for comparison sake it is an invalid argument.

[ccap41]

If somebody isn't buying new, you won't get to buy it used. 

[A Horse With No Name]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

If somebody isn't buying new, you won't get to buy it used. 

A 2019 EVO vs WRX comparison would be great if the EVo had stayed in production...but it didn't.

My point on new vs used was that 48 K was a ton of scratch for a new Imprezza. 

how is this...new to new...at 48 grand for the special edition in question...you are approaching Shelby Mustang or Vette Money for a 4 cylinder econobox?

[A Horse With No Name]

52 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

If somebody isn't buying new, you won't get to buy it used. 

There are lots of other intangible benifits of buying especially performance cars new. 

One really doesn't want the ownership experience of something that has been driven really hard as a performance car. LOTS of wear and abuse on a lot of performance cars. 

It's why Ford does not like to lease the Mustang GT very much, from what a trusted Ford salesman told me. 

[dwightlooi]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

If somebody isn't buying new, you won't get to buy it used. 

Well, I am glad somebody else is buying new then! I NEVER, EVER, buy a new car and it is not a matter of affordability but one of value. The current car -- a 2014 CTS VSport Premium -- was bought in 2017 with 26K miles on it for $33K. Its new sticker price was $73K. The previous car, a 2011 Jaguar XF 5.0 Supercharged was bought in 2013 as a CPO for $40K, it was a $68K car new. The car before that was arguably the best value. It was a 2005 C55 AMG bought in 2008 at the depth of the recession with 24K miles on it for $26K it stickered for $60K new -- I put 90K miles on it. The other cars in the familty, a 2017 Acura MDX Advanced Pkg SH-AWD was recently acquired for $40K with 22K miles on the clock, beating an as new price of $58K, and the 2015 GMC Terrain SLT was acquired with 17K miles in 2017 for $18K and it stickered for $28K new.

The point is that you save a lot of money by avoiding the first 2~3 years of horrendous depreciation. Regardless of your income, value is value. Trust me, rich people do not get or stay rich by throwing money away when they don't have to. Buying used cars and used homes are some of the best things you can do for your finances regardless of how much you make and how much you want to spend on your car. (I am not going to tell you exactly how much we make, but we paid Uncle Sam and the People's Republic of California in excess of $160K in taxes last year).

Edited January 24, 2019 by dwightlooi

[ccap41]

I'm right there with you @dwightlooi I've never bought a new vehicle and honestly never plan to out of value as well but I do know that enthusiasts always ask for these specific cars and then when automakers cancel them for poor sales.."we" wonder why. And all the crazy SUV/CUV boom, enthusiasts seem to hate but they refuse to buy new stuff to actually influence automakers. We essentially have no voice in the market yet we care the most about the market.. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by ccap41

[dwightlooi]

15 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm right there with you @dwightlooi I've never bought a new vehicle and honestly never plan to out of value as well but I do know that enthusiasts always ask for these specific cars and then when automakers cancel them for poor sales.."we" wonder why. And all the crazy SUV/CUV boom, enthusiasts seem to hate but they refuse to buy new stuff to actually influence automakers. We essentially have no voice in the market yet we care the most about the market.. 

Demand doesn't really work that way. Demand for new cars is a summation of all buyers' desire and ability to buy or lease it new. But that desire and ability is also affected -- and in no small part -- by the residual demand and hence value as a used vehicle. This DIRECTLY affects lease rates and heavily influences the desirability of brands. Trust me, a BIG part of the reason somebody bought a Camry or RAV4 is how much he believes it'll be worth in 3 to 5 years. At least 30% of the cars Toyota sold they probably sold because people believe (correctly) that Toyotas have one of the highest value retention rates amongst all the manufacturers.

So, whether you are buying new or used, you are contributing to the demand for the brand, model and type of vehicle you buy. However, if there is relatively speaking a high resale value but weak new sales for a particular model, manufacturers should conclude that their product is overpriced for the demographics they are targeting with it. Again, not rocket science is it?

Edited January 24, 2019 by dwightlooi

[ykX]

@dwightlooi  Nobody argues about value of used cars, this is pretty obvious to many people, at least most people on this forum.  However, bringing argument of "X new car vs Y used car" when discussing any new car is simply stupid, because as you point yourself out "Y used car" will be almost always a better value.

Edited January 24, 2019 by ykX

[A Horse With No Name]

Ironically, one of the two new cars I bought, a 2015 TDI Jetta I sold back at almost full price two years and 56K miles later.

Other two new cars were a company vehicle an employer provided and a 2005 Scion XB that I paid $14,600 for. The Scion got totalled with 262,000 plus miles on the clock and State Farm wrote a Check for $4600  for it.

1 minute ago, dwightlooi said:

Demand doesn't really work that way. Demand for new cars is a summation of all buyers' desire and ability to buy or lease it new. But that desire and ability is also affected -- and in no small part -- by the residual demand and hence value as a used vehicle. This DIRECTLY affects lease rates and heavily influences the desirability of brands. Trust me, a BIG part of the reason somebody bought a Camry or RAV4 is how much he believes it'll be worth in 3 to 5 years. At least 30% of the cars Toyota sold they probably sold because people believe (correctly) that Toyotas have one of the highest value retention rates amongst all the manufacturers.

So, whether you are buying new or used, you are contributing to the demand for the brand, model and type of vehicle you buy. However, if there is relatively speaking a high resale value but weak new sales for a particular model, manufacturers should conclude that their product is overpriced for the demographics they are targeting with it. Again, not rocket science is it?

My daughter is a claims adjuster....what she pays to total a Toyota, Subaru or Honda is vastly different and almost bizarre.   She paid out more on a crappy 6 year old Civic with 138,000 miles than a same year Navigator with like 78,000 miles.

Value of used cars varies GREATLY.

[dwightlooi]

2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Ironically, one of the two new cars I bought, a 2015 TDI Jetta I sold back at almost full price two years and 56K miles later.

Other two new cars were a company vehicle an employer provided and a 2005 Scion XB that I paid $14,600 for. The Scion got totalled with 262,000 plus miles on the clock and State Farm wrote a Check for $4600  for it.

Good to hear that the VW-Audi MPG cheating scandal did not affect the resale value of your TDi!

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, dwightlooi said:

Good to hear that the VW-Audi MPG cheating scandal did not affect the resale value of your TDi!

I made out like a bandit on that deal.

That you own a CTS V and have owned a Jag of that model...your stock just went up about a thousand percent with me. I freaking adore both cars. Hugely.

[dwightlooi]

23 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I made out like a bandit on that deal.

That you own a CTS V and have owned a Jag of that model...your stock just went up about a thousand percent with me. I freaking adore both cars. Hugely.

I don't own a CTS V; I own a CTS VSport. Big difference there. 420hp 3.6TT vs 640hp 6.2SC.

The Jag was a 5.0SC with 470hp, but it is a heavier car and it's 424 lb-ft isn't exactly a a lot. It doesn;t feel faster and it actually isn't faster.

Edited January 24, 2019 by dwightlooi

[David]

4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

If somebody isn't buying new, you won't get to buy it used. 

We will always have plenty of peeps to LEASE New, so we have our CPO options!