Tesla suit against Rivian green-lit

[balthazar]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/tesla-can-move-forward-with-trade-secret-suit-against-rivian-1.1583942

[David]

Tesla has gone from arrogant to paranoid. Very common in tech to hire away skilled people and I suspect Rivian will win in the long run. Tesla is scared as they are falling behind as every OEM starts to join the EV race. Rivian has superior product based on what we know so far compared to Tesla and their Truck and SUV sales should really do well once they start shipping product in June.

[ykX]

28 minutes ago, David said:

Tesla is scared as they are falling behind as every OEM starts to join the EV race.

I disagree.  While Tesla has quality issues, their engineering is still years ahead of everyone else that just joints now the EV game.  Rivian hasn't produced one production vehicle yet.  Lets see how long it will take them to make 100k vehicles.  Considering the prices their vehicles starting with I think it will take a while.

Edited March 30, 2021 by ykX

[David]

5 hours ago, ykX said:

I disagree.  While Tesla has quality issues, their engineering is still years ahead of everyone else that just joints now the EV game.  Rivian hasn't produced one production vehicle yet.  Lets see how long it will take them to make 100k vehicles.  Considering the prices their vehicles starting with I think it will take a while.

I disagree with you, Rivian already has a couple dozen delivery van in the greater LA area and will have another dozen or so in the San Francisco area. The plan is to have over 30,000 by the end of the year being used on top of the R1T (June Deliveries) and R1S (July Deliveries) to start, I honestly think they will ramp faster with far better quality than Tesla and on a product far more people want.

Tesla, aka Musk is stretching himself far too thin for more look at me narcassistic life than building and delivering quality profitable products. I expect Rivian to out do Tesla in the US at a faster pace than Tesla has been growing in a shorter time frame.

[balthazar]

You DO REALIZE that legal action stops commerce activities all the time, right? It doesn't matter if you disagree or Rivian poo-poos it, the potential is there and it's going to run it's course until there's an outcome.

[David]

27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

You DO REALIZE that legal action stops commerce activities all the time, right? It doesn't matter if you disagree or Rivian poo-poos it, the potential is there and it's going to run it's course until there's an outcome.

Yes, I realize that and Hopefully the politicians will see the benefits to the citizens over protecting the dealerships.

Positive thought for change.

[balthazar]

There's enormous potential for direct sales to enter into the definition of 'monopoly'. Tesla and Tesla alone controls their products price, there is zero competition within the brand. And if Musk is doing so poorly with Tesla, why give him exclusive sales control on top of everything else?

Walmart, Amazon, Home Depot, grocery stores, Best Buy, etc, etc, are all franchises. They don't manufacture, they retail.
You can't drive to Proctor & Gamble's Ohio plant and buy a 3-pack of Bounty paper towels.

Why should car sales be the only consumer/commerce example that operated on the inverse of that?

[David]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

There's enormous potential for direct sales to enter into the definition of 'monopoly'. Tesla and Tesla alone controls their products price, there is zero competition within the brand. And if Musk is doing so poorly with Tesla, why give him exclusive sales control on top of everything else?

Walmart, Amazon, Home Depot, grocery stores, Best Buy, etc, etc, are all franchises. They don't manufacture, they retail.
You can't drive to Proctor & Gamble's Ohio plant and buy a 3-pack of Bounty paper towels.

Why should car sales be the only consumer/commerce example that operated on the inverse of that?

There are plenty of Product companies that allow you to buy direct, prices are usually higher, but if you do not want to deal with a retailer and plenty of people would rather just order up and have it shipped to their home as the Pandemic has proven, it SHOULD be an option, not a monopoly, but an option over dealerships.

I always will check out an auto first and do my homework, but I would rather not waste hours at a dealership when I can decide what I want, check it out and decide if I want to pay that price or not.

Cell Phones is a perfect example of where you can Buy an iPhone or any Samsung phone from the company usually at a higher price or go to a retailer and get what you want at various prices. 

Auto's should be the same way, you should have the CHOICE to buy from the manufacture or from a dealer.

[balthazar]

• I don't need to test drive toilet paper or coffee. A vehicle is another matter.

• What if I don't want to deal with the manufacturer??

• Choice is good, but Tesla's not advocating choice- they rejected the franchise model from the beginning.

[ccap41]

Dealerships are some of the worst groups of people. I don't know why they should be defended. 

[balthazar]

Of course; there's good & bad in ANY profession you care to name. Medical errors are the #3 cause of death in the U.S...

I've been in on new & slightly used car sales at dealerships in '87, '93, '94, '98, '02, '05, '09, '16, '17, '18 and '20 in 8 different dealerships - no complaints or issues. No run-around, no rip-offs, no gouging, no Tru-Coat.

With my upcoming truck, the GMC website had at least 3 mistakes on it WRT details / what is standard/optional. That's not so good.

[ccap41]

So wouldn't doing something about fixing #3 in cause of deaths in the US be a step in the right direction? Or should we just sit and let medical errors stay #3, because we're used to it? 

I also just realized this is in the wrong thread. It should be in the dealership network suing Rivian thread. 

[balthazar]

I will step out and predict Tesla will at some point be forced to go to a franchise model. There’s very real & long-running reasons national (and international) corporations do- getting embroiled in hundreds or thousands of locations directly, with advertising, hiring/firing, advertising, taxes, local regulations.... it’s a logistical nightmare. 

Gas stations, fast food... MOST national businesses are franchises. Corps do not want to burden of dealing with such a wide network. Tesla right now is TINY.

Right now, Tesla has been coasting, alone in the EV field, zero advertising budget. Supposedly in 9-14 years, they’ll be 1 player in a massive league of players, and they’re going to have to advertise & franchise if they want to keep growing/become a major cog.

[David]

I am going to also step out and say that dealerships will be gone in 50 years as technology is showing us that people do not want to deal with the dealership nightmare. Like @balthazar and a few others here that have posted that they never have any problems at dealerships. I also have never had a problem. I do my research for myself or who ever it may be that asks for my help be it family, friends, etc. I then go to the dealership where they have the product the person is interested in and set the ground rules with the sales person up front. I control the experience and while the stupid long hours is still inexcusable, I at least make it pleasant as the person buying is not dealing with the manipulation of the sales process at the dealership.

Yes I get that process that Costco uses, but even that has many happy customers that accept the prices emailed to them, finish up all the paperwork over the net and then stop by to pick up the auto and sing the last few things making time at the dealership very short. The future is changing just as Amazon has massively changed the way people shop and even Hotels and Airlines have changed to smartphone check in, dealing with people is very rare now and as the Pandemic continues on, while people will start to vacation again, masks, social distance and self check-in are the new norms. Buying via the internet, minimal actual human interaction is becoming the new norm and while I love to test drive an auto before buying and test fit my large ass in the auto, many people are not needing that.

Had my oil change and some service at the Caddy Dealership and I noticed that the wall of Sales people was only 1/3rd of what it was. Asked the sales manager who was still the same, he informed me that when the pandemic started and the owner required everyone to wear masks, all the retirement eligible sales folks retired as they refused to wear masks. The whole sales staff is all new and under 35. The manager told me that 50% of their sales are now done online and the people come in sign and are gone in under 30 min. A very different buying experience than what older folks are used too and he expects it to become the new norm rather than going back to the way dealerships used to be. 

Scary is I went by the dealership today as I had to run an errand and the lot was only 1/3 full of auto's, so much empty asphalt due to production cuts due to the chip shortage. Just weird as I also noticed this at the Hyundai, Kia, Mazda and Ford dealerships near me too.

[balthazar]

If you're spending "stupid long hours" in a dealerships, then yes; you ARE having a problem.

Every dealer I've checked out also allows you to purchase online, so that's nothing exclusive as far as I've seen. 

A lot of big, scary adjectives conjured up out of thin air, IMO. I guess there are support groups for post-dealership 'survivors'? 🤣 🤣 🤣 
 

28 minutes ago, David said:

I then go to the dealership where they have the product the person is interested in and set the ground rules with the sales person up front.

Sounds like a pleasant experience not at all based on ungrounded assumptions, for all concerned.