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Im sorry if I seem forceful. LOL! I wanted to know why the question so I asked you? Albeit I think my questions to you might seem aggressive... They are not...its cool that we are going back and forth on this! Curiosity is what you are saying? Yup...curiosity is just a good reason as any other! Good question non-the-less. I think that the people that thought they were duped by Elon for whatever reason already canceled or are gonna cancel. If we could know how many people canceled their Model 3 orders so far...Id say a good percentage of those cancellations are for reasons that they felt duped... Life does change, life happens.. so there is obviously gonna be cancellations based in unexpected events...so that calculation would be a tad trickier to determine...
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Industry News: Consumer Reports Pushes For HD Trucks To Get EPA Fuel Mileage Estimates
balthazar replied to William Maley's topic in Industry News
Freightliner's Supertruck was a 2015 concept vehicle, it's not in production. Peterbilt's Supertruck from 2014 posted very similar gains in MPG, but I don't think it's in production either. -
It doesn't; I merely posed the question.
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True...but one buys a car DIRECTLY from Tesla making Tesla THE dealership...so...same difference IMO. Its the pre-orders that has you hung up... Well...this is the game that the rules are played with with 'gotta have it now' products!
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Last Sunday night, workers at General Motors' CAMI Assembly plant in Ingersoll, Ontario went on strike due to the automaker and Unifor Local 88 being unable to reach a tentative agreement. The plant where the majority of the Chevrolet Equinoxes are built has been shut down since. Now the side effects are the strike are beginning to be felt. At least 255 workers at GM's St. Catharines, Ontario plant have been given temporary layoff notices that begin tomorrow. St. Catharines is where the transmissions for the Equinox are built. According to Automotive News, workers spent the week stockpiling transmissions. "We supply about 90 per cent of (CAMI's) transmissions, so it's related to that. Even though they were down, we ran all week ... We have a lot of transmissions stockpiled now because we didn't know if they were going to resolve it this week or not. It doesn't look like they're going to," said Tim McKinnon, chairman of Unifor Local 199 that represents St. Catharines. “We’re off until they get it settled. Every time they sneeze, we catch a cold. If they pick up more volume, we pick up more volume.” GM announced late last week that it is making production adjustments at St. Catharines, Spring Hill, and Flint Engine Operations. Both Spring Hill and Flint provide the engines for the Equinox. Also last week, Canadian supplier Magna International said it would suspend the supply of parts. The top concerns for the two sides are very different. For GM, it is the worry of having enough supply of Equnoxes for the demand. Sales rose 85 percent year-over-year in August. While GM does also build the Equinox in San Luis Potosi and Ramos Arizpe, Mexico, the two plants cannot match the output of CAMI (40,017 for the Mexican plants vs. 132,288 for CAMI). For Unifor, they want assurances that CAMI will remain the lead plant for the Equinox and want another product for the plant to build. Unifor has reached out to GM on Wednesday on possibly restarting negotiations. At this time, no word on whether two have or will meet. Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required), The Canadian Press via CBC
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GM News: Ripple Effects Begin To Appear From CAMI Strike
William Maley posted a topic in General Motors News
Last Sunday night, workers at General Motors' CAMI Assembly plant in Ingersoll, Ontario went on strike due to the automaker and Unifor Local 88 being unable to reach a tentative agreement. The plant where the majority of the Chevrolet Equinoxes are built has been shut down since. Now the side effects are the strike are beginning to be felt. At least 255 workers at GM's St. Catharines, Ontario plant have been given temporary layoff notices that begin tomorrow. St. Catharines is where the transmissions for the Equinox are built. According to Automotive News, workers spent the week stockpiling transmissions. "We supply about 90 per cent of (CAMI's) transmissions, so it's related to that. Even though they were down, we ran all week ... We have a lot of transmissions stockpiled now because we didn't know if they were going to resolve it this week or not. It doesn't look like they're going to," said Tim McKinnon, chairman of Unifor Local 199 that represents St. Catharines. “We’re off until they get it settled. Every time they sneeze, we catch a cold. If they pick up more volume, we pick up more volume.” GM announced late last week that it is making production adjustments at St. Catharines, Spring Hill, and Flint Engine Operations. Both Spring Hill and Flint provide the engines for the Equinox. Also last week, Canadian supplier Magna International said it would suspend the supply of parts. The top concerns for the two sides are very different. For GM, it is the worry of having enough supply of Equnoxes for the demand. Sales rose 85 percent year-over-year in August. While GM does also build the Equinox in San Luis Potosi and Ramos Arizpe, Mexico, the two plants cannot match the output of CAMI (40,017 for the Mexican plants vs. 132,288 for CAMI). For Unifor, they want assurances that CAMI will remain the lead plant for the Equinox and want another product for the plant to build. Unifor has reached out to GM on Wednesday on possibly restarting negotiations. At this time, no word on whether two have or will meet. Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required), The Canadian Press via CBC View full article -
I also want to make it clear that I dont think of the early automobile pioneers as shysters. Nor do I think Musk is a shyster either. The products to be sold are/were always available for the consumer to buy. Yes...the Model 3 will eventually be delivered...a shyster would be if Musk collected the deposit money and skipped town...he obviously has not done that. And...what Tesla says what their cars will do performance wise...they cars deliver on that promised performance...so there is no shysterism there either. I just like to even the playing field regarding certain thought processes....that is all! Why would this bother you? Obviously the people that listened to Musk's speeches recently regarding price, options and delivery dates and did not agree, already canceled and are in the process of canceling now. But many did not cancel...the majority... And others took their place...the Model 3 still has around 400 000 pre-orders give or take.
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But you order your car from Tesla. If you want to order a base model you can. There is currently a 12-18 month wait to get it is the only problem. Tesla has no dealers so you don't have to pick what is on dealer lots. Anyone that wants the $35k Model 3 can order one. Most Tesla buyers I imagine will want at least the luxury package for $5,000. Personally I wouldn't pay $9,000 for the bigger battery pack, as 220 miles is plenty of range for my use, I assume many others will feel the same.
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I do like that Ford went to aluminum and turbo sixes for the F150, and they are going to do a hybrid also. I applaud them for pushing progress forward. Ford is the innovator when it comes to pick ups, and has come a long way since 4.6 liter V8s making 210 hp, and that was 15 years ago. And Tesla's website states $35,000 base price before incentives.
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I like those fuselage body MoPars- tried once to buy a '69 Polara hardtop coupe with the SuprLite. Looked at another one about 10 years ago. Probably the last good looking full-size MoPars until the very late '90s/'00s.
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I for one have not called any of these Company men mentioned here a 'shyster'. The bait & switch some could argue Tesla is doing on the 3 is indeed what has been seen before... tho at a somewhat higher level (OEM vs. dealer). The difference IMO is announcing the base MSRP, taking 3xxK preorders on that MSRP, then a considerable lapse of time passes before an announcement that a 20-40% price increase is instead what's going to happen... still before sales start. To my knowledge, the product didn't change during that time, and I acknowledge that the OEM has said base priced cars will be available down the line, but things change. Remember; Tesla once said it would be a profitable company building only 300 cars/year. My point remains; with no information for a long time on the Model 3 available other than the price, why didn't the 3xxK just order up a Model S that was available immediately? Was the announced 3 price the sole factor or not?
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As much as a shyster that Durant or Ford ever were....or even Delorean later on.....or any other Detroit personality in the automobile industry since the beginning...minus the few engineers, coach builders and race drivers that made a difference...but the ones involved in the money part....yeah...shysters...stealing, backstabbing, cheating, lying, extorting... If you gonna hate...at least hate EQUALLY!!!
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September Car Spotters Thread
Cubical-aka-Moltar replied to Cubical-aka-Moltar's topic in The Lounge
Beautiful weather but unseasonably hot lately for this time of year (around 90), saw a bunch on interesting old cars out and about today. A couple streets over from me saw a sharp dark olive green '70-72 Monte Carlo on Cragar SS wheels (couldn't see the front, so not sure of the year), on the road a sharp yellow '72 Buick GS convertible, top down, white interior; a very clean '87-90 Chevy Caprice--dark red w/ no vinyl top, white walls and wire wheel covers; and at Swenson's (NE Ohio drive in burger joint) a pair of well worn-but-still driven older Mopars--a red '69 Polara 2dr ht and a dark green '74-76 Dodge 4x4 pickup...sitting side by side. -
I've been waiting to hear more about these in U.S. fitment for my mom, her lease is over on her '15 Versa Note in February. Her very favorite car is the Kia Soul, but I am not sure she can swing a new one, even a base Soul with automatic is over $17k now. I work in the bodyshop business, I am not as savvy on auto finance. I am not sure if it would be advantageous for her to keep her Versa and roll it over into a loan to purchase (with help from me financially), turn it in at Nissan and lease another Versa Note (in which case at age 73 she would lock herself further into leasing, which I am not sure I support) or turn it in at another dealer and lease something else. At this point, I guess she'll have to follow the deal and take what she can get for the lowest price. She has a 10k/yr 37 mo lease on the Versa Note and she only has 9k miles on it as of now, so there will be no problem with mileage overages with regards to residual value.
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I am not one of those 400 000 Tesla sheeple! The ones that were not Tesla sheeple did cancel their orders... But...when one fool ends up changing their mind, another one takes its place... Even now after all of Elon's warnings that delivery will take long and not all options will be available right away...Tesla still losing millions...yada yada yada...people are still giving deposits to own sometime in the near future, the Model 3... Yes...Tesla sheeple get excited when Elon is telling them about possible EV pick-up trucks and 18 wheelers and another CUV yet ignore that their 1000 dollar deposit on their Model 3 that already has been cashed in wont come to fruition in another 1.5-2 years possibly 3 years... Buick and Ford and even Mercedes cant afford such buffoonery... THAT is the difference... Will THAT ever become old?
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I like the Bolt and I don't see anything wrong with it except for its impracticality, same as every other electric. But if I'm going to limit myself to putzing around close to home, I'd rather spend $37k to do it than $70k. Plus it has the power of the Chevrolet brand behind it. That is a longterm advantage.
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Imagine the number of pre-orders for the Model 3 if a $50k price had been announced. LOL bunch of dopes riding on unicorns looking for a pot-o-gold at the base of the rainbow. Elon Musk is a shyster now and always.
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And Im saying it will start at 35 000! I am also saying that not too many will be available at that price... I also said that about Ford...and its ecoboost pushing... Tesla aint that different than anyboby else is alls Im saying... Why now...would we be chastising Tesla for an industry wide affair?
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Would you be willing to put a deposit down on a vehicle you had zero information on beyond 'its a smaller sedan than this one with less MPG, space and features, but it will cost/start at $35K'? If your answer is 'yes', what did you base your decision on?
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Please read what I’m actually saying instead of converting it into some kind of kind winded explanation of something I am not talking about. I have no problem with what the optioned our models will cost. That’s the car business. What I am saying is that it will not start at $35K. Nothing less, nothing more.
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Did Buick accept pre-orders on an Envision no one saw based on a falsified base MSRP? I don't think so.
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They will start at 35 000... How many will be produced to be available to be sold at that price is another thing all together... The majority of them will be sold at higher than 35 000...sure! But why would that be a negative? Part of that would be because not too many 35 000 dollar priced Model 3s will be available....but...I dont think the majority of Tesla buyers gives a shyte how much the Model 3 ends up costing them...and I think Elon knows this so he will milk as much money as he can outta the Tesla sheeple... The ones that dont want to spend the coin to drive a Tesla and just for the badge do have options... It is called the Bolt or the Leaf, at the moment as only Chevy and Nissan offer viable and compelling products as of now that directly compete with the Model 3 somewhat... Why would any of this be bad?
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GTFO of here and stop trying to move the bar yet again. You used the F-150 as an example of milking tech. Well, I’m pretty sure that a lot of people want those (same for the millions of GM 3800s out there whether you like it or not). The F-150 averages 70,000 a MONTH while bringing huge profits and has changed their powertrains numerous times to go with the times, hence ditching V8s for turbo sixes, just like Benz has been doing. Those are little details that you failed to mention while trying to call them out. Oh and GM has more CUVs than any other manufacturer including Benz. More details you leave out while you move that bar around.
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Let me say this for you one more time. They will not start at $35K. Bank on it.
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Industry News: Consumer Reports Pushes For HD Trucks To Get EPA Fuel Mileage Estimates
smk4565 replied to William Maley's topic in Industry News
The Freightliner Supertruck gets 12.2 mpg thanks to aero, hybrid system with waste heat recovery and solar panels and downsized diesel engine. Another great innovation from Daimler, double the gas mileage of a typical semi truck.
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