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"How can we get all of the electric stereotypes into one vehicle?" -"I got you, boss."

Lets wheel this in just a little bit... (Pun on words...reel versus wheel... This is an automobile site forum...) 1. BMW M5 CS is 7:29 on the Ring, so is the Porsche Panamera, both faster than Model S Plaid. I can't find a current E63 sedan time, the E63 wagon holds the wagon record at 7:45.... The Model S Plaid is 7:36 on the 'Ring.... BMW and Porsche lives on the 'Ring. Especially the M5 CS. Not too bad for an EV sedan when 'Ring times were a 6-7 year AFTERTHOUGHT on the same generation platform Model S from Tesla. The E63 wagon that was quoted because of some sort of German superiority is still slowler than the heavy Model S EV sedan than NEVER had ANY intentions of doing ANY kind of track... 2. The HUMMER, although its praised by its maker for being quick in a straight line, is not its primary role. Its an offroading monster, literally a monster as big as a Costco and just about as heavy as a Costco building... Offoading tires on it... And no, it shoudnt be allowed to have a watts to freedom acceleration as its not engineered to handle all that acceleration and stopping with 9000 lbs and off roading tires and no brakes to handle all those forces. When the HUMMER is acceleration watts to freedom, it is limited to 106 MPH by the computer though... BECAUSE of the lack of braking AND the type of tires it comes with... watch the video 3. EVs usually, inherently handle like they are on rails, well, the ones with a skateboard platform, because all the battery weight is below the axles beneath the rest of the passenger stuff..... The over all weight is greatly masked. The HUMMER is NOT focused to track, the HUMMER is focused on doing HUMMER things. Doing off road, but mostly, giving the owner the attention he craves. Look at me, Im an arrogant doouchee!!! And it succeeds in that 100000000000%!!! It steals the show away from a MB G Wagon and Lamborghini with ease!!!

Yep, not surprised here. I think everybody with a brain knew there would never be a sub 40k truck from them. So how late is summer 2023? Is that like 5 years since they showed it? More?

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So freakin what? The error is on MT then since it was their words. You, on the other hand, were still wrong as only stated M5 while the above is an M5 CS. Details matter I’m afraid.

Except it's not, especially when your initial comparison was regarding two other cars that were NOT the AMG GT you referenced later. After David showed where the Plaid S beat the two cars (that you first mentioned), you moved that bar in order to bring up the AMG GT. Point being, you were wrong on two fronts (EV's not having anything more than straight line speed and that the BMW and Benz you mentioned were BOTH slower than said EV around the track in question). No need to back pedal and make excuses because you were proven wrong.

Tesla has this coming in the 2024 model built in Texas. Replacing 70 plus parts with a single cast frame system has already been stated to reduce weight by 400 pounds. Tesla has stated they plan to add in 2025 a front single cast system replacing the 80 plus frame parts and another about 400 pounds. As such Tesla is moving to the core frame of their autos to be a 3 piece system. I suspect that GM, FORD, Asian, European, etc. all Legacy Auto OEMs are prototyping single cast or dual cast frames for their EVs. The company that supplies Tesla has already admitted that both GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW and VW/Porsche are talking with them for single cast machines to simply their next gen EV platforms. I think once you reduce all the parts to cast frame that allows a much more solid assembly while reducing weight you will see EVs get much closer to ICE in total curb weight. Remember how Legacy OEMs moved to Aluminum and High strength thin steel to replace heavy dense normal steel dropping on average 500 to 700 pounds for trucks and SUVs. It will always be an engineering exercise to simplify, products and reduce weight for the auto industry.

I'll pass on the carpeted dash and 90's bus fabric seats. Also not of fan of the center only screen with no instrument panel behind the steering wheel, wasn't a good idea on the Toyota Echo, I don't like it on the Tesla, don't like it here.

I think that kind of goes for every manufacturer. All vehicles have a teething period that nobody should buy an all-new vehicle. Most every "car guy" knows you shouldn't own a first model year vehicle from any manufacturer, not just Tesla.

Poo ?

Looks to me like the design department at Mini has been dabbling in the Electric lettuce for a bit too long.

That thing stops as bad as 1 ton dually trucks. Not the greatest example of engineers being able to make anything work. You pretty much made exactly Smk's point, EVs can get after it in a straight line and nothing else. And you're the only one saying it "handles well". "There's so much pitch, dive, and roll when the GMC Hummer EV Pickup accelerates, decelerates, or changes direction, it looks like something out of a children's cartoon. This kind of silliness makes us giddy, but we also need to pause a moment and strongly recommend against ever using WTF mode on public roads. Cruising at 60 mph, the 9,000-pound Hummer needs 137 feet to stop when you mash the brake pedal on the floor. That's 3 feet farther than a 2020 GMC Sierra 3500HD diesel dually. Even with its crazy amount of regenerative braking, this truck absolutely does not have brakes commensurate with its power and speed capabilities. Think about it: In just 3.0 seconds, you're traveling fast enough to need the same braking space as a dually, and you're still accelerating like crazy. It would be beyond easy to get into a situation where you're traveling way too fast to stop for another vehicle, a pedestrian, an animal, or anything else. You might not even be able to slow down enough to make a corner if you don't lift and brake soon enough. This is a crazy amount of weight moving ridiculously fast on all-terrain off-road tires, and the laws of physics are merciless." https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-first-edition-first-test-review/

Yet the point of this story was about performance electric concepts that Hyundai are using to ensure they have Performance Electric. You cannot point to ANY Mercedes EV that can outperform the Tesla and as such you point to ICE. Apple to Orange Comparison. The fact that Tesla BEATS most of AMG Black auto's and only a couple ICE are a few seconds faster shows that Electric is about to take everything ICE had away and will do it faster, cleaner and better. Hyundai as even you said has built a lovely looking Electric Concept and I would say that all of us that have posted on this new release love the design of the N Vision 74. Just make it pure Electric and stop wasting time on the Hydrogen thing as the best place for Hydrogen is in the Commercial market in Medium and Heavy-duty trucks. Accept that fact that Mercedes has NOTHING right now to beat Tesla on, they also are losing out to other companies that are beating them. Example, Mercedes won ZERO Red Dot awards over the last few years for the Luxury Auto Segment and Hyundai continues to clean up as the best Luxury maker right now. Genesis Media Center : GENESIS SWEEPS THE BOARD AT RED DOT DESIGN AWARDS 2022 VW has won for their segment in the auto Industry but seems the rest of German auto companies have lost out to Asian companies. Red Dot Design Award (red-dot.org) Even Lowly Buick won an award last year. Red Dot Design Award: Buick Electra (red-dot.org) End Result is Mercedes is on a slide down, they are following and trailing other global auto companies living on past glory for sales.

And he just showed you where the Plaid S ran faster than both of the above. You bringing up the pricer AMG GT was pointless and yet again, bar moving nonsense.

Well the Taycan had the record. The AMG GT63S is 7:23 though, beats the Plaid by 12 seconds. The Black Series is 6:43, over 52 seconds a lap faster. The Hummer might handle well for a 9,000 lb vehicle, but that's because it weighs double of a normal size SUV, so what do you compare it too. I am saying where is the EV that can handle with a Miata, BRZ, Corvette, Boxster/Cayman, etc. Car and Driver compared the AMG EQS to the Model S Plaid, stated the AMG is better but it isn't enough AMG. These EV's can blitz a quarter mile, but it is one trick pony performance, so I'd like to see the handling, breaking, weight cutting come into play, which over time with battery tech will eventually happen. I hope Hyundai makes the 74, but it's a $75k car or more if they put 577 hp in it, the Ioniq 6 N is probably a $75k car, that's getting to low end Corvette money. That's too much money for those. Right now $40k is the base Ioniq 5 with 168 hp that weighs 4,000 lbs, not exactly a Golf GTI or Civic Type R competitor for fun factor.

7:29 is faster than 7:35.5 of the Plaid.

Per the Tesla website, the base rear drive standard range Model 3 is 3,862 lbs, 0-60 in 5.8 seconds and 272 mile range. The 2022 Mercedes C300 is also around 3800 lbs, does 0-60 on 5.3 seconds per Car and Driver test. I wouldn’t really call the C300 a sports car either. I don’t see how Tesla takes 400 lbs out of a Model 3 without shrinking the battery and sacrificing range.

I like what Hyundai and Genesis are doing, and I like they they are getting into performance too. And I think you can compare EV to ICE. My point is with these performance EV’s is it is straight line only. You said Tesla can out perform other EV’s, but the Plaid’s lap time is slower than a Corvette that has half the horsepower. Put a 500 hp EV on a track against a 500 hp Corvette and see what happens. And this leads to the affordable sports car issue I brought up. A Miata, BRZ, GTI, Ecoboost Mustang are like $30k range, get into the 40s and the Supra and Z are there. I doubt there will ever be a 200-300 hp sub $40k EV sports car that weighs under 3500 lbs and is tossable in corners.

According to the wikipedia list of Nurburgring times there are 89 cars faster than the Tesla Model S Plaid. Including this $59,000 (base MSRP) Audi which beat it by .05 seconds And to update my earlier post, the E63 is not longer the fastest wagon, in May 2022 the BMW M3 Touring beat it and is now the wagon record holder, and is also faster than the Plaid. So Tesla and the other EV's have work to do. And I like the idea of EV's, so I hope they can get the weight out and get the cost out and come up with some good stuff. The Ionic 5 N and Ionic 6 N are probably $70,000 cars, I think that's a lot for a Hyundai performance mid-size sedan or crossover. A Cadillac CT5V (not the Blackwing) started at $51k, might not be as fast in a straight line but probably overall on a track is, and the aforementioned Audi RS3 is $59k! Now if Hyundai builds that 74 concept for under $45k, goodnight 300Z, Supra and Mustang (Camaro is going goodnight regardless).