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Looking good. So glad Lincoln is using names again. Hint hint Cadillac...

To harp on power in these cars is to completely miss the point. These are handling and agility cars. They are extremely satisfying drives without having to break the speed laws to get satisfaction.

Well, I finally found what I’ve been looking for, in my price range. This past Saturday I picked up a 2016 Lincoln MKC. 37,460 miles, $21,000, 2.3T engine with AWD. Upgraded real leather seats in dark brown and cream that I absolutely love. It had auto-high beams that I was skeptical about how well they flip off then back on and they’re surprisingly fantastic. As soon as any headlights show up in front of my they flip off, be it just over a hill or a mile ahead of me. Neat. Classic Ford, I already have to hit up my local dealership because the exterior thermostat is reading waaaay off(like -35F) therefor also throwing off the temp thst throws out the HVAC. It’s still under warranty and if it wasn’t I’d be dealing with the dealership I bought it from, well I’m doing that anyway incase it becomes lemon-worthy. I want them to know about it right away. They also legally had to instal the front plate bracket.. they said they were going to do it and I asked them not to but because IL is a front plate state they weren’t allowed to let it leave without the bracket on. I’m going to see if they drilled the bumper or if it was mounted through the grille this weekend to see if I can take it off.

Ocn, you know that is not true.... People have left this site for the same reason they leave other car boards-they just move on... Some may have been on the wild side, but many others simply just moved on and got into other things...whether it be different makers or simply different interests... Even with my current issues with GM, I am still here with my friends. Yeah, we tussle a little bit in opinion at times-but in the end things end up fine. I don’t abandon friends based on opinions on politics....as in the end we are all here for the love of cars....

Thanks blu- I spent an hour the other night watching utube episodes. Funny stuff. - - - - - '41 DeSoto Business Coupe - love the lines ~

The Camry is the most American ca you can buy I think. I don't think people care where anything is made for the most part, they buy the product they like. People buy phones and TV and computers made in China and they don't care. There wear clothes from the Philippines and Vietnam, and they don't care really care where stuff comes from, they care about quality of the product and price. If GM sold an American made Silverado for $35,000 and the exact same spec truck with the same quality as a Chinese made Silverado for $30,000, 99% of the people would pay less to have the Chinese one and they wouldn't shed one tear when the American factory shut down. That is the the cold truth of how it is.

Since the launch of the XT4 with the rather anemic (if more refined) LSY engine, many (including myself) had questioned why GM does not offer the Tripower 310 bhp / 348 lb-ft (L3B) 2.7T 4-cylinder in the XT4 (at least) as an option. To a lesser extent some have also questioned why the LSY is putting out a mere 237bhp / 258 lb-ft whereas the outgoing LTG engine is good for 265~272 bhp / 295 lb-ft. Is it just so that it can have 258 lb-ft arrive @ 1,500 rpm? Now, we have the answer... It's the 9-speed Automatics. Adopting the 9-speed automatics is deemed a priority for refinement and fuel economy. The new GM-Ford 9TXX transmissions, jointly developed with Ford promises better fuel economy and better shift quality. There are currently two versions of this transmission:- 9T50 -- 258 lb-ft 9T65 -- 280 lb-ft The need to pack 9-speeds into a very slim transmission case meant that they have to use an ovoid cross section torque converter, a tension chain coupling and abandon the high torque capability of the previous generation top dog 6T80 (369 lb-ft) transmissions used in the 410 hp / 368 lb-ft 3.6L Twin-Turbo (LF3) powered Cadillac XTS. The lack of torque capability is also in part why Ford abandoned the use of the GM-Ford 9TXX transmissions, choosing instead to develop an 8-speed evolution of the decade old 6T80 for use in their high torque applications like the Ford Edge ST (2.7L Ecoboost V6 with 335 hp / 380 lb-ft). Ford also asserts that the new 9-speed autos did not yield any fuel economy improvement when tested with their engines and the refinement improvements alone did not justify the costs and weight increases. View full article

For Blu ~

I think I posted a pic before, but this is Bro's 'bird:

A. You said "cannot afford", I responded to that, and your response back centered around 'computer engineers'. I don't associate that profession with being unable to afford a car. B. The vast vast majority of people store at least some items in their vehicles for various reasons. Some keep a LOT of items in their vehicles (nothing wrong with that). Still others work out of their vehicles. These types of consumers aren't going to be in this market. C. I do NOT relish the thought of getting inside a vehicle regularly where who knows who has been doing who knows what. People treat public use items in generally terrible ways.

Fleetwood Body Division of Cadillac, Fleetwood Pennsylvania ~

Road salt hadn't been invented yet in 1951. ;) - - - - -

^ There were a number of export Corvettes built, including RHD conversions, to a whole bunch of countries in the C1 & C2 era. - - - - - Stunning interior : '60 Electra 225 ~

All right gays, let me put it simply for you all:- (1) An engine being turbocharged (or not) has nothing to do with whether it is, or can be, high revving. Period. (2) Contemporary Turbocharged engines are typically not high revving because of the designers' desire to minimize lag and maximize torque down to the lowest reaches of the rev range. (3) Turbochargers generally have a range of airflow within which it functions well. A big turbo supports higher flow -- which means higher boost or higher engine rpms. A small turbo takes less exhaust energy to drive -- which means higher output at lower rpms and less turbo lag. (4) To be more specific, at about 20 psi of boost (~1.36 bar), the most advanced turbos can support a torque plateau of about 3000 rpm. That is to say you can have your peak torque of about 150 lb-ft/liter across about 3,000 rpm of engine speed range. This can be 1,500~4,500 rpm or it can be 4,000~7,000 rpm depending on the size of the turbo. Obviously, an engine the latter will make more power... much more power (greater than 200 hp / liter) and rev to 8,000 rpm without running out of breath. But expect 1990s style lag and rubberband like throttle response. With the former you get ~ 130~140 hp / liter, but the engine isn't dead between idle and about 3800 rpm. You can have either or something in between, but you can;t have both.

For having NOTHING to contribute, you sure made a very long post! LOL!!!

I think as a hatch it looks much better. And with that engine it should be a hoot,

I have not censored any posts in this thread. Keep it on topic and not about each other, but otherwise have at it.

I’ve said this for years but I’ll say it again. More and more folks are buying used and CPO for more than obvious reasons. Sales trends over the last few years reflect this. Thank you high priced new cars.

High prices for low standard features

Will you still remain 8' tall?

But they're building it anyway for other markets. Why not sell it here anyway?

What is not being stated here is the fact that it could have been loaded onto the bed of your average pick up as opposed to wasting twenty feet of space on a rollback truck. So is gonorrhea but we still try to make sure we don’t get it.

As usual, MB gets the credit for "inventing" something that someone else invented. In this case, crossover "coupe" styling.

Somebody get ocnblu to read this. This might calm him down.

As the '19 Ram is rated to tow up to 35,000 lbs, it'll be really interesting to see what Tesla (eventually) puts out.

I6 is better than V6.... especially for longevity

Was it ever really alive to begin with? Those cars took “POS” to a whole other level.

It's raise and bonus time at work... got a sweet one this year.

Highly recommend to watch "Formula 1" series on Netflix if you have it. I have never been a huge fan of Formula 1 but it is fascinating to see what is going on behind the curtain and the series is very well made.

Yep, I’ll take a hellcat for power, and and 86 for a joyride.... #loveallfuncars

It sounds labored because it is 237 bhp trying to lug 4,000 lbs around. It short shifts because it is smart! The new 2.0T (LSY) engine hits its torque peak of 258 lb-ft at 1,500 rpm. It hits its 237 hp power peak at 5,000 rpm and spend every bit of the last 2000 rpm running out of breathe. By 6000 rpm it is making less than 200 lb-ft. By 7000 rpm it is making closer to 150 lb-ft. You really don't want to rev that thing. The LSY is very quiet, refined and responsive from 1000 rpm through about 5000 rpm where it does its best work. In many ways it feels like the old Supercharged 3800 which -- despite popular slander -- is actually a very refined engine when not hustled. Most of the fuel economy gains come from shutting off the two middle cylinders in cruise and from the low lift economy cams also having a long intake duration which can then be phased to eat into the compression stroke and reduce the effective displacement as well has create an asymmetrically long power stroke. It's a part time "mild Atkinson" cam if you will.

@balthazar That is some impressive (and quality) work! That kind of quality workmanship in posting, if used right, could land you in the interwebs trolling hall of fame one day. If you chose to use your powers in that way. if you chose to turn to the dark side that is... BALTHY! We must only use that kind of powers for the good of the internets!

Mostly Firebirds. To honour Balthy's 1968 1000 horsepower plus Firebird! From 1967-2002

Got a text from my brother- he's having a new engine built for his '68 Firebird and they ran it on the dyno. First pull it had restricted oil flow & ate an intake pushrod. On the 2nd pull it ate an exhaust pushrod, so it was only running on 7 cylinders. Made 1,055 HP at "only" 7000 RPMs.

I think it's hilarious that you are like the personal embodiment of a GM product. You're every bit as classless, and as much a piece of trash. It's no wonder you love them so much. @Drew Dowdell Is there any reason why we let let this vile, GM leg humping garbage pile continue to plague this site?

I'm happy w/ my CPO JGC.

I think that the design intent behind this vehicle was to provide a sizable trunk that was ideal for putting various high school friends into and getting them into the drive-in movie theater free of charge.

Peugeot 508/508 SW (2019)

One thing that I've never understood is the hate that cars get for having an "old" platform even when the platform is excellent. The 300 and Charger are 4,000 lbs sedans that handle well, ride great, and can get 30mpg highway in the real world without any fancy engine shenanigans. They still aren't even direct injected.

PSA have any plans to at least check the sales charts of fiat & alfa? 'cause Peugeot is in the very same, tiny basket of 'who-asked-you-to?'.

If a Tesla semi ever shows up, it'll cost $500,000. And be useless in sub-freezing temps.

Detuning the 4 cylinder for fuel economy, in a luxury car that is $60k doesn't make any sense. Maybe it would make sense if there was some great NVH improvement, but 7.5 seconds is slow. Granted the old folks in Florida taking it to Cracker Barrel won't care, and there is a more powerful engine for people that do care. It just seems like more bizarre GM decision making, that isn't based on customer demand, but rather supplier issues, manufacturing costs, parts bin inventory, bean counters, etc.

I think this is one of the best looking of the fastback SUVs, but I still refuse to call it a coupe.

When you're only selling 7 a month, 70% sounds better than it is.