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  1. 4 points
  2. 4 points
  3. 4 points
    Going with all-European as I couldn't think of any American car V12s in the last 50 years. English: (both in shades of green) Aston Martin Vanquish Volante Jaguar E-Type V12 German: BMW M760Li Mercedes CL600 (love this roofline) Italian: (albeit a flat 12) 1985 Ferrari Testarossa (Because I still love the Big 80s)
  4. 4 points
    • B-class CANNOT be a "bad" car; it's a Mercedes!! Don't you think Daimler learned anything from decades of crap-tastic SLs and s-classes with Rubbermaid interiors & no amenities?? B-class is 'engineered like nothing else' (or whatever the tagline was), dontcha know! • Bolt doesn't come close to "copying" the Playskool-esque i3, which is why the Bolt -still in limited release- is slaughtering the i3 in sales. I mean; isn't that your go-to metric; the better car sells more? • If cargo capacity 'doesn't sell', why the plethora of fold-down rear seating, the move to CUVs / SUVs, the steady upgrading of towing capacities, the return of mid-size pick-ups & the proliferation of mini cargo vans?? People. Got. Stuff.
  5. 4 points
    I towed 2 cars Sunday with my truck. When I scrapped the first one @ 3340 lbs, my truck, the trailer & the car weighed 13,600 lbs, which is 1600 lbs over recommended. The 2nd vehicle (the ElCam posted elsewhere) was another 500 lbs more via curb weights- that's 14,100 on a recommended 12,000. Trailer was heavy @ 3600 lbs. But Duramax don't give a shit. I have considered I don't 'need' a 3/4-ton turbodiesel in my next truck... but sometimes it's real nice to have it. This is the mindset of truck buyers; reserve capability, something car buyers don't understand IMO.
  6. 4 points
    You're still wrong and just doing mental gymnastics to justify your argument. The new Regal GS has a *nurburgring-tuned* adaptive suspension. This is a trackable performance car. Totally, utterly different than a "sport-tuned" suspension offered in the Camry and the adaptive suspension in the Accord. NEITHER of those are sport sedans at all. They're not meant to be. Same with the Chrysler 200. You're doing these cars a disservice by labeling them something they aren't. Take them to a track and be prepared to have the car falling all over itself and throwing up warning lights. The Fusion Sport isn't a true sport sedan either. It's not track-ready, and it's not track tuned. It's a cruiser with an engine/suspension package. It'll be faster than the GS in a straight line and handle reasonably well in normal conditions, which is enough to win over most casual buyers. Ford offers a summer tire package to generate benchracer stats that belie the dynamic mess it is under real handling duress. No matter how you slice it, the Regal GS is above the Camry, Accord, and 200 in luxury appointments and performance. You are actively ignoring the facts here, pretending this is a Malibu with a V6 package.
  7. 4 points
    ^ I guess 'as OK as the others' is the new tagline.
  8. 3 points
    Must've taken you HOURS to type those 5 words.
  9. 3 points
    The strangest possible part of the whole deal is that Jeep alone is supposed to be valued more than all 4 brands combined.... which means that investors see Chrysler, Dodge, and possibly Ram as negative value. Whatever company buys them is not going to be able to ax the other brands and rebuild the new network, but they will have to fill those brands with new product. Sadly, at this point, any leadership would be better than the leadership FCA currently has. China may be Dodge and Chrysler's only hope. If one needs an example of it actually working out well, all one needs to do is look at Volvo. This is why I was surprised by Geely saying they weren't interested in FCA at this time. A brand lineup of Volvo at the top, Chrysler as mid-premium like Buick, Dodge as the family car, Ram, and Jeep could actually work. Volvo has a fantastic, flexible new platform (One of the best on the market at the moment IMHO) in SPA that could conceivably be used for Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep. Chrysler could go to China as a Buick competitor, Jeep is already there, ProMasters and City could be rebadged into Geely or Jeep for China. When you start looking across the lineups, picturing the replacements using SPA and filling in some of the current gaps, a Geely - Chrysler Group merger actually makes sense.
  10. 3 points
    If this happens... another nail in America's industrial coffin. And we have ourselves to blame. No one else.
  11. 3 points
    smart EV's are the best version available, without any janky transmission nonsense and underwhelming fuel economy. if they position themselves as a premium compact EV, they'll probably do fine.
  12. 3 points
  13. 3 points
    BUT C&G TOLD ME EVERYONE WANTS DIESEL COMPACTS
  14. 3 points
    As found in 1981, the '63 Pontiac X-400 supercharged 421 show car. It has since been meticulously restored.
  15. 3 points
    Audi R8 etron (they did make a production model- 100 of them) E Golf SLS AMG Electric Drive (yep, they made these, too) Detroit Electric SP 01 Tesla Model X
  16. 3 points
    Exactly. I still hope that it is a shared thing between Cadillac and Chevy. To me.. it is absolutely ridiculous to make a one-off vehicle when GM's luxury brand clearly needs a halo car to compare to that from Benz, BMW, Audi , and even Lexus. Even better would be the opportunity this presents for Corvette to throw its hands into the realm of a separate premium division the like of Porsche.. CUVs included.
  17. 3 points
    ANother context: Tesla sold 46K vehicles last year and didn't make a dime of profit, yet it's that close to Daimler selling 3 million vehicles making a decent profit. To channel SMK : 'There might not be a Daimler / Mercedes in another 10 years, after Tesla puts them out of business.'
  18. 3 points
    General Motors has been seeing sales of their passenger cars take a sharp drop as buyers latch on to crossovers, SUVs, and trucks. The first half of 2017 has seen GM's passenger car sales drop 19 percent. In June, passenger cars went into freefall with a 36 percent drop. This has General Motors making some drastic decisions in terms of products and production sites. "We are talking to (GM) right now about the products that they currently have" at underused car plants such as Hamtramck in Michigan and Lordstown in Ohio, and whether they might be replaced with newer, more popular vehicles such as crossovers, said Dennis Williams, president of the UAW. According to sources, GM is considering dropping six models after 2020. The models include, Buick LaCrosse Cadillac CT6 (See Update Below) Cadillac XTS Chevrolet Impala Chevrolet Sonic Chevrolet Volt Four of the vehicles listed (LaCrosse, CT6, Impala, and Volt) are built GM’s Hamtramck plant in Detroit. According to suppliers, Hamtramack's production output for the first half of 2017 is less than 35,000 vehicles, down 32 percent when compared to the same time last year. Other GM plants are able to produce 200,000 - 300,000 vehicles in a year, putting Hamtramck in a dangerous spot. GM must "create some innovative new products" to replace slow-selling sedans "or start closing plants," said Sam Fiorani, vice president of AutoForecast Solutions. A possibility of a new product is replacing the Volt with some sort of utility vehicle boasting a plug-in hybrid powertrain according to sources. Source: Reuters UPDATE: “There is absolutely, if I could speak all capitals now, they’d be coming out of my mouth. There is absolutely no plan, at all, to cancel the CT6,” said Cadillac president Johan de Nysschen to Jalopnik when asked about this report from Reuters. “That report came as a surprise to me, too.” de Nysschen said the brand is planning to invest more into the CT6 in the coming years as it will play an important role in the coming years. “The [CT6] forms a very important part of our product strategy going forward for the brand,” de Nysschen said. “The car also has a very major contribution to make to the shaping of brand perceptions, and the transformational process that Cadillac is undergoing as far as that is concerned.” Source: Jalopnik View full article
  19. 3 points
    In Ohio we think of vehicles as biodegradable and self recycling...it is a feature rather than a fault...
  20. 3 points
    The more I look at that 3.6L DOHC V6, the more I miss the 3800/3900 series V6. Flat torque curve for days and more torque than horsepower. Too bad GM will not derive a V6 from the Vortec V8s they still have since those V6 engines may not do as well from an MPG standpoint as the European-derived 3.6L. I have my doubts a turbo 4cyl will power the Lambdas forward as well since the Lambdas are comparatively heavy.
  21. 3 points
    ...or at least the car, not merely its image with a small group of people? I would define being wealthy as being able to live life on ones own terms, and would argue that is different for every wealthy person. i could see being very wealthy, living in Manhattan, owning no car...being very wealthy, owning a ranch, and driving a basic ford F series...being very wealthy, living in Monaco and driving a Bugatti Veyron...being very wealthy, keeping a modest house in the Midwest and driving an XT5...being very wealthy, driving a vintage Mercedees 280 convertible and living in Palm springs... ...I also drive through some less affluent parts of town on a regular basis and see older used Benz, Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus and the like languishing on used car lots with faded signs on the windshields...
  22. 3 points
    A simplistic fixation on sales numbers with regard to luxury cars seems counter-intuitive...isn't luxury supposed to be about exclusivity, not sales volume?
  23. 3 points
    Jeep's problems are as follows- 1) Outside of the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee, nobody thought of them for purchase. Compass, Patriot, and Nitro sales were only ever on account of massive incentives and pushed on subprime buyers. Nobody with actual buying power was crosshopping with CR-V's Rav4's, etc. 2) The Wrangler sales model isn't and won't be sustainable. There's only so many people who want Wranglers. The demand for them will level off, and eventually recede. That's even counting if something major happens, like a spike in gas prices, etc. 3) They have no 3-row SUV. That is killing them. 4) They don't have vehicles far enough upmarket. Jeep needs vehicles playing at as high of a price point as they can get away with. That said, I'm not sure this isn't overembellished a little. The new Compass just dropped. People know a new Wrangler is coming, so many are probably holding out on it. They (maybe?) have a 3-row coming. It's not a total doom and gloom story.
  24. 3 points
    I'm sure whatever the numbers are, they aren't huge. I was just replying to "they can't sell any" nonsense. Hyperbole es muy grande. 3-series is down 25% m-t-m & 16% on the year. "Not selling" here, too, I guess. Because; percentages.
  25. 3 points
    This is wildly inaccurate and misinformed. The Regal is not a reskinned Malibu. Besides the fact that the US Regal is a DIFFERENT BODY STYLE with a rear hatch-access trunk, the two cars share a platform but were separately developed. Entry luxury is not a stretch. If you ever sat in or drove an Encore, Verano, Regal, or Lacrosse, you wouldn't even suggest it. The Lacrosse also hasn't been a reskinned Chevy since 2010 when it moved to the epsilon II chassis, and the current Lacrosse remains the only GM full size on the redesigned E2XX platform. You also implied all that separates the new Regal GS from a bunch of $30k family cars with uplevel engines is AWD. I guess you overlooked the heated/cooled/massaging sport seats, brembo brakes, and nurburgring-tuned adaptive suspension? Basically everything except the engine is out of the Camry and 200's league.
  26. 3 points
    Newsflash. Those three are supposed to be mass market as they are marketed to the masses. A luxury car maker trying to push a rebadged Nissan is another matter all together.
  27. 3 points
    Just a cheap mass market pickup platform...nothing significant...
  28. 3 points
    Yea, who would want incapable cars? After all so many Douchebags drive them!
  29. 2 points
    True, but one has to remember to think globally. Dodge never had much of a market outside of North America. Chrysler has been in Europe, they sell an oddly high number of Town and Country minivans there. It's just about the most common North American built, US branded vehicle I see there. Jeep is in China, neither Chrysler nor Dodge are. They could, and already have plans to send Chrysler to China starting next year. Chrysler will be priced and positioned like Buick. Under Geely, they'd keep the Pacifica. 300 and 200 go on SPA as Lacrosse and Regal competitors. Add a crossover or 3 and the lineup is pretty full for both China and US. SPA was designed from the start to be a plug-in hybrid, so it would go over well with China's electric car goals. No need to bring Dodge as a brand over to China, Geely is already an established brand, so just swap badges on which ever cars get shipped whichever direction. Dodge US could use some lower cost platform shared with Geely for the smaller stuff and the Volvo SPA for the Durango. Charger and Challenger would get axed under this scenario. Replacements for Dart, Avenger, Journey, and Nitro (FWD) could come from Geely. This also gets Geely into the South America market via a reputable brand. RAM and Jeep just keep on keepin on. JGC would probably need to move to SPA, just let the Americans make it trail rated. They'd eventually have to replace the Fiat based Jeeps, but they'd have 5 or 6 years to get that done. It's not impossible to imagine Volvo's new factory spitting out S90s, 300c, Durango and JGCs. *Sorry if I'm rambling, hardly slept this week*
  30. 2 points
    Mercedes models overlap and compete with each other all the time. This is a fact that you seem to forget while criticizing GM yet again for the same thing.
  31. 2 points
    Them there supercomputers ought to be able to run an assembly line a la carte, like the old days. Option packages are nothing but extortion. I should be able to order what I want. There is a balance between higher profits and higher unit sales.
  32. 2 points
    Chevrolet will be introducing a new base model of the 2018 Tahoe called the Custom. The Custom sets itself apart from other Tahoes as it will not have a third-row seat, increasing cargo space to 54 cubic feet. Standard equipment includes 18-inch wheels, 8-inch touchscreen with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto compatibility, OnStar 4G LTE with Wi-Fi, backup camera, and remote start. Like most Tahoes, the Custom features the 5.3L V8 with 355 horsepower. Out of the box, the Tahoe Custom can tow up to 6,600 pounds. An optional max trailering package boosts that to 8,600 pounds. “The Tahoe Custom is a response to strong customer demand for Tahoe, as well as the full-size SUV segment moving upmarket. In the past five years, the average transaction price for the segment has climbed fueled by customer appetite for features like heated and cooled seats, adaptive cruise control and a head-up display. This created an unmet need in the marketplace for customers who want the cargo and towing capability of a full-size SUV to go camping, boating or off-roading but don’t necessarily want all of the option content offered on a Tahoe Premier,” said Sandor Piszar, Chevrolet Trucks marketing director in a statement. The 2018 Tahoe Custom arrives at dealers next month with a base price of $44,995. Source: Chevrolet Press Release is on Page 2 CHEVROLET INTRODUCES THE TAHOE CUSTOM New model offers Tahoe’s legendary capability starting at $44,995 DETROIT — Today Chevrolet announced the new Tahoe Custom special edition for the 2018 model year. Like other Custom models, the Tahoe Custom is intended for buyers who want the uncompromised capability of Chevrolet trucks and SUVs in a great looking package at an outstanding value. “The Tahoe Custom is a response to strong customer demand for Tahoe, as well as the full-size SUV segment moving upmarket,” said Sandor Piszar, Chevrolet Trucks marketing director. “In the past five years, the average transaction price for the segment has climbed fueled by customer appetite for features like heated and cooled seats, adaptive cruise control and a head-up display. This created an unmet need in the marketplace for customers who want the cargo and towing capability of a full-size SUV to go camping, boating or off-roading but don’t necessarily want all of the option content offered on a Tahoe Premier.” For $44,995, the 2018 Tahoe Custom comes standard with 6,600 pounds of towing capacity (up to 8,600 pounds of towing with max trailering package), a maximum of 112 cubic feet of cargo space and a 355-hp, 5.3L V-8 engine that delivers an expected segment-leading 23 mpg highway based on EPA estimates. The Tahoe Custom is based on the LS trim and adds 18-inch painted aluminum wheels, all-season tires and a chrome-accented grille. Plus, Tahoe Custom features a third-row seat that has been removed, increasing cargo space behind the second row to a substantial 54 cubic feet for added utility. Tahoe Custom also features a suite of connectivity technologies including: Apple CarPlay & Android Auto compatibility 4G LTE connectivity with Wi-Fi hotspot (includes three-month/3G data trial) 8-inch color touchscreen radio Standard rear-vision camera Standard remote start Standard teen driver mode Available Enhanced Driver Alert Package that features Forward Collision Alert, Safety Alert Driver Seat, IntelliBeam headlamps with automatic high-beam control, Lane Keep Assist and Low Speed Forward Automatic Braking Up to five USB ports and five power outlets — including a 110-volt three-prong outlet — to support electronic devices of all kinds (up to 11 charging locations) Tahoe Custom will be available at Chevy dealers in September 2017.
  33. 2 points
    MB totally screwed up here. *Sits in his CEO Armchair* The SMART brand should have been expanded. It has virtually no name brand recognition or baggage in the US. It should have become MB's family car brand. Co-develop some cars with Renault for US consumption and sell them here. Just name them Smart 1, Smart 2, Smart 3, etc. There was a ready-made network of dealers ready to go, no need to build it up from scratch. I expect the SMART brand will close in the US in a few years.
  34. 2 points
    Lock the door? What if you want the whole world to see what you're capable of?
  35. 2 points
    WHEW!!! The Member's Ride's thread are back online! Now... due to Photobucket imploding [charging a fee to link photos], just have to re-link/upload images again. I'm going to screenshot my thread so I have a jpg backup. Glad it worked out, DD!
  36. 2 points
    Heh-heh...though I'm not a big 50s fan, most were recognizable...I could have gotten the Rambler through process of elimination....it was the most obscure..did it without googling photos. The only one I had to guess at was the first, wasn't sure it was a Lincoln or a Continental....(wasn't sure the year they stopped marketing Continental as a separate division, Continental fans go apeshit on FB over people calling the '56-58 models 'Lincoln Continentals'). Then I remembered Continentals had egg crate grilles. Too much obscure automotive trivia in my head..
  37. 2 points
    There is a Marauder a few streets over from me in that same color...I still would like to have one.
  38. 2 points
    I think one should do both to be mentally and emotionally fulfilled. ironically, was debating about going to the work shop and making sawdust or reading a serious non fiction book when I got off work... Trade School is a dirty word any more....and we ahve millions of blue collar jobs that go wanting while college graduates are lining up for jobs in art history that pay 26 grand a year....with people two hundred grand in debt getting a degree for that at a private university. It is called personal responsibility..and while I tend towards the liberal end of the spectrum...the government can't fix this one. It has to be individual Americans taking responsibility. If we could just do with everything else what we do with craft beer...lots of individual providers, lots of quality, lots of choices, all made right here in America. But Millennial people are drinking less Beer...Damn them! the younger generation s crews up everything (just kidding, I like Millennials...)
  39. 2 points
    Problem is that most of these sites these days are not populated by ENTHUSIASTS like what U and I see as such. 70% of the guys U speak with are the equivalent of Clark Griswald (National Lampoons) and routinely take orders from their wives on what they should purchase. 90% of those probable don't even know what these are or are used for, let alone ever used either:
  40. 2 points
    Different strokes for different Folks. Question is why are all three domestics at the bottom of the pile at the moment?
  41. 2 points
    DRIVEN 2018 Chevrolet Traverse AWD LT 3LZ (will verify) No MSRP on the label HIGHS Mini Suburban feel Mini Suburban crossover style Spacious and well laid out interior. Spacious front and second rows, particularly in GIRTH. Cargo space behind third row is more useful than previous version. More space and additional depth below cargo cover. Ridiculously simple dashboard design comes off as elegant and easy to use, using the same bits as all the other newest Chevy's (window switches, gauges, etc.) Sliding door cubby with touchscreen is actually not gimmicky and is a ridiculously useful center storage cubby. Very quiet inside. Very smooth ride and smooth on the road....in a trucky car kind of way. You can have many conversations in this vehicle. AWD system is flexible. You can just leave it in FWD and it has other modes to help in snow, etc. Luxurious console and armrests. Genuine improvements to the seating management and access. Tilt forward second row, and second row slides to help third row leg room when need be. Surfaces that look bare and plastic in photos are in fact soft and feel good to the touch in person. Combined with the soft leather it all feels really good. Looking out through the windshield, it's wide and open. Combined with the much lowered dashboard, equates to a way different feel than the previous version. There are no obstructions to seeing the acres and acres of corn ahead. Far more of a useful size than the downsized Acadia. With pretty much all the same bits. Nice steering feel. Suspension goes about its business and is fairly well tuned for overall comfort. Overall, refinement. Particularly compared to the previous and now ancient feeling version. LOWS I think the third row at best is only the size of the previous version. I think it seems as if it is smaller, although i did not climb back there. They say it seats 3 back there but I am skeptical. The only way you get the leg room to be awesome is to slide the middle row forward some. I think the cargo floor is higher, and subsequently the overall cargo space may not be as tall (although i would measure it to verify if that is true or not). Because of the lower dashboard and such, the tilt wheel seems to have limited range. Engine could really benefit from more torque, even if it revs willingly. It's slow to respond, not as evident as it was in the Acadia but I do think the tranny is not programmed to shift aggressively. This allows you to cruise nicely on the highway but it doesn't feel sprite from in town stoplight to stoplight. Some folks may think the interior is sparsely designed or plain. I don't really think so considering the soft touch surfaces, but i can understand that there is not a lot of bling inside. It's not uber chic like the CX-9. Since it shares bits with the other new Chevy's, i think that is great....but i think small Malibu gauges could really stand to be upsized in a large SUV. I saw the cloth interior, and well, it looks ok for cloth but for the price point the look of the cloth is out of place. I saw the ash grey interior in leather as well and the impression is not as good in the lighter color compared to the black (my test had the black interior). Someone let me know if there is a version of this that has athletic handling and ride. I think the trucky car feel is actually spot on for the majority of the segment but after awhile I could see wanting a version of this with more agility. Carpet trimmings in the trunk area, like the Equinox, seems a bit thin and cheap. GMC needs an Acadia XL to go with this right pronto since this makes the regular and new Acadia seem compromised. Three row pricing in general is getting ridiculous. To get leather plus AWD here, the pricing indeed starts to get kinda crazy. SUMMARY. Not a hot rod, and not chic, but pretty much a bullseye to what i believe people are expecting here. So let me just call it an A; or maybe an A- with reservations on the tamer powertrain feel. I've tested some of the competitors here and most notable of those are the CX-9 and Atlas. You'd have to drug me to get into a Highlander, and I've yet to drive a Honda Pilot. I'm still familiar with the Explorer. The Traverse just feels newer and more advanced beyond the Explorer. Maybe its due to the Explorer being ancient, but the Traverse doesn't have the tight second row of the Explorer, and it seems to drive and run better. The CX-9 had size issues but for me, the biggest issue with the CX-9 was the 4 cylinder turbo motor. It was billed as THE solution for that vehicle and to me it was not suitable. It wasn't responsive enough, and therefore smooth enough to operate. For my likes, the Traverse would suit me better with the 6 cylinder and the more spacious interior. The Atlas is where I see some inroads into this 3 row market. Car mags like C/D have praised it except for its engine. You can find my test drive of it on this part of the forum as well. In fact i think the car books probably read some of my comments because they are consistent all around. The Atlas and Traverse both provide well for the basics of the segment which is space, seating flexibility, smooth and quiet ride. Things I liked about the Atlas, I like about the Traverse also. I think some folks may think a loaded up Atlas has a nicer interior than the Traverse. For me, i would drive them both again and it would mostly be a tossup but the nicer touchscreen and available 4g would probably kick it over the top for me for the Traverse. So the Traverse is majorly improved, and should be right in the thick of things in terms of competitiveness. Well done GM. Will probably need to take a new Acadia out again for a spin, i might have been slightly harsh on it last time.
  42. 2 points
    @A Horse With No Name yes but....you did not say if you were gonna still love me tomorrow...
  43. 2 points
    Seems rational. They will be lucky to build fifty thousand model 3 Tesla's.
  44. 2 points
    only a dozen people in north america know of the maserati brand and they'd all buy tesla's anyways. so i guess sergio wants to lose money on an electrified vehicle again?
  45. 2 points
    Yes as long as idiots continue to elect Baby Boomers who should be off playing golf rather than trying to hold the US to their 1950-70's view of the world, we will not lead any longer. Hate to say it but their needs to be an age restriction for elected officials. 65, you are no longer able to run for office. We need young energetic blood in office and term limits. So sad that we have given up leadership and ingenuity for the sake of status quo.
  46. 2 points
    Or maybe his next company will be a human cloning company or cyborg company so he can make a few replicants of himself to spread the work out..
  47. 2 points
    I am a firm believer that MFR's design cars with easily fixable flaws intentionally so that they can do a facelift to address complaints and spur sales again. There are precious few makers who I think are putting their best foot forward with every model introduction.
  48. 2 points
    More data on Jeeps being in demand for the richest folk...
  49. 2 points
    Interesting that Johan says no plan to cancel the CT6, he didn't defend any of those other cars which I think sort of confirms they are history at the end of their life cycles. I hear team owners say the head coach is safe and they have full confidence in him and a week later the coach is fired too. I suspect Cadillac will go to 2 sedans. I have said for years they need rear drive Alpha and Omega based crossovers. Oldshurst has made great points. Here is why sales matter. These sedan segments are shrinking. Just like minivans shrank and if you weren't top 3 or 4 it was hard to survive. GM, Ford and Hyundai got out of minivans because sales fell. Chevy and Ford look like they'll get out of full size sedans, Cadillac may get out of mid size sedans. These segments just can't support 8 or 9 players, the strong survive the weak give up and focus somewhere else.
  50. 2 points
    HA! Sales dont matter???!!! Tell that to: Plymouth Mercury Pontiac Oldsmobile AMC Duesenberg Auburn Cord Checker Hudson Should we include Saturn? GM as a whole almost did not make it Chrsyco as whole is STILL on the brink... Because as we all know...sales is just numbers that mean nothing...sure the ATS and the CTS have buyers... And sure Pontiac also had buyers and Oldsmobile too had buyers and so did Duesenberg and Hudson... Blockbuster also had customers and Sears STILL has some customers...but yeah, Im falling into the 'sales trap' because sales are just numbers and as long as there are customers to keep the lights on.... Yeah....Im falling into the "sales trap"... I dont know why the ATS and the CTS arent selling either...the term confusion just angers some of us... But yeah....1000 units per month for the ATS and 800-900 units for the CTS should be enough to keep the lights on at GM... That is why GM did NOT axe the Firebird and Camaro. Nor the STS. Nor the Fiero. Nor the Allante. Nor the LeSabre. Nor the Park Ave. Nor the Fleetwood. Nor the Toronado. Nor the Caprice. Nor the Bel Air. Nor the Riviera.... Because sales figures are just numbers and dont mean a damned thing...because there are customers that dont care what sales each model and brand do month to month....as long as the lights are still open for business... Plymouth Mercury Pontiac Oldsmobile AMC Duesenberg Auburn Cord Checker Hudson Id like to buy a brand new 2018 Oldsmobile Alero...because as you know...I dont care about sales figures and I buy what nobody else buys and I want my brand new 2018 Olds Intrigue NOW!!! Not a Buick or a Chevy. An Olds Intrigue new for 2018 ..... Because as we all know...sales dont mean a damned thing!!!