LosAngeles

I think it's got the best interior of the three....exteriorwise, I'll take the Ford. The Chevy simply looks the closest to production.

Forgot to note that I saw a new Commander, all-black, earlier this week....it ain't half bad exteriorwise, though I have to sit in one.

From Motor Trend I'm not printing out that long monster... http://motortrend.com/roadtests/intellicho...ercedes_rclass/

There weren't any reviews of the R-class on here, so I figured I'd dig up some... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9379352/site/newsweek

And now, the Dodge entry: Now if only the BMWs, Toyotas, Hondas, and Renaults of the world wanted to make 50s concepts....

Time to compare... We offer Ford's entry:

I'm talking Pontiacs that came right out of the factory and were sold at dealers. Even if a middleman came in, it sill ended with being sold, factory sticker and all, at Majestic Pontiac over on Coliseum and Crenshaw....feel me?

I don't think this was ever talked about by anyone... I know Americans seem to mostly think about acceleration and drag racing, and that top speed really can't be used many places.... But that didn't stop me yesterday from wondering what the fastest Pontiac has ever been....has Pontiac been building high-displacement monsters that aren't any good beyond 120 mph, or have there been production models known to do 150, 160, possibly even 180 with no sweat? On record, what is the fastest production Pontiac? Not the quickest (that's what E.T.'s and 0-60 are concerned with), but that FASTEST.... Has any Pontiac been known to have to be governed at 155 mph (similar to Europe's goods), yet clearly have potential for an even higher top speed? Could it be the current GTO? One of the Firehawks? Perhaps the Turbo Trans Am of 1989? Or maybe it was a simple Fiero GT or Grand Prix GTP.... Being the so-called Excitement Division and all about performance, it surprises me that this question really hasn't been broached, or that there really hasn't been much association with top speed at Pontiac.

To Shiny: Where did you find it? That was brutal to look up.

I've packratted enough as it is in my life....I need to lay off for a while....

I searched it pretty hard on both of the majors and can't locate it to save my life.....

Try '92 Detroit and LA Auto Shows....it was around the same time as the Buick Spectre. It had a glass roof, from what I can remember. Kinda reminded one of the Subaru SVX.

One has to hope the 3.5 finds the way in as the top engine, and that we get a supercharged SRT-6 as well....

Let me clear my stance up a little. Our TSX is the world's Accord....our Accord is Japan's Inspire. In effect, what I'm really seeking with a full-size, rear-drive Inspire is to be the next generation of Japan's Inspire, while giving every market a true big Honda that's more basic than the Acuras. The next Accord can be another world car bigger than the TSX, but not the beast that is what we use for our current Accord (their current Inspire). The car doesn't have to be 40 large, though we all know people WILL pay that these days..... Acura keeps its toes from being stepped on by making a longer-wheelbase car on the same chassis, dubbed FSX, its flagship. In basic, the largest car IS left to Acura. This same chassis can even yield a new Acura coupe (the CL name is gone, so maybe it can be a CSX or something). The TL can move into the RL's territory, AWD and all; the TSX and RSX can be merged into the next compact Ac, whatever they want to call it. The same chassis can even make for the next Odyssey for the world. Anyway, back to the main point, big cars don't always have to be luxury cars...if that was the case, the Chevy Impala would be the plushest, most high-tech thing the world has ever seen.

There are already are shorter version of the Accord....called TSX and TL.

Not one piece EVER came from Delta? Let's be clear on this one, because things are written it about it claiming a piece of everything out there....

OK, OK, hold on, people, I'm not talking about the Inspire having to be a luxury car or the FSX having to be this land yacht rivaling the Town Car. My thing is that Acura doesn't really compete with Mercedes and Lexus, and Honda may as well complete their bread-and-butter trifecta....so why not kill two birds with one stone, and go where they've never been before. BV, reclining back seats were done on lowly Toyota Crowns way back in the late 80s...OK, maybe not reclining like a La-Z-Boy, but they were definitely adjustable. That's the degree I think an Acura can introduce to the U.S. market, and stay sane. Limo capability means simply making the car worthy of stretching, which obviously the pedestrian RL is not. Basically a better-looking President/Century for Asian government types, and something good for our executive livery here as well as your average luxury customer. A real flagship. The Acura (FSX) doesn't have to be a 230" monster, or even the size of the last Chevy Caprice, simply something four inches longer than the Honda variant (Inspire), which itself would be fine at an international-size 197". The Honda doesn't have to be armed to the teeth, just be ready for the 300, Crown, and Avalon. No one has to even know it's rear-drive....and just because it is doesn't make it inefficient. When making a new chassis, there's nothing wrong with doing something different.

I know you guys are HUGE Honda haters, but this is something I was kicking around in my mind. Even with the gas prices the way they are now, big cars seem to be making a comeback. I was thinking that Honda should build a rear-drive chassis intended for big cars and the V-8 (whenever they DO decided to build it). The Honda brand car (called the Inspire) would be longer than the Acura RL and the Acura version (the FSX, named after and similar to an old luxury concept sedan) would basically be a LWB car suitable for limo conversion, fit the upcoming V-10, allow for the reclining back seats, and come in as the new Acura luxury flagship. Great competition for the LX cars, the Zetas, the 7-series and S-class, and most importantly in Japan, their Toyota and Nissan counterparts. This chassis could even revive the Prelude as a 2+2 grand touring car. Flame away.

BV, BQuiet.....plenty of people buy Pontiacs out here....

That truck's also the gas-guzzlin'est thing on the planet at 9 city/12 hwy mpg.

I prefer 2 overall, and mostly becase of the front spoiler vent openings at the corners, but #3's got the best grille. I like this current GP, regardless....if only I could afford the car.

Speaking of vinyl tops, I saw a 90s Avalon with a vinyl top that covered the rear quarter windows....the line it cut made me think it was a Regal sedan for a second....and even worse, the damn thing had a little wing on it....vinuyl roofs and spoilers of any kind simply don't mix.

This is why you speak to Subaru about help bringing on board other engine types for Pontiac. Subaru can keep their flats, since that's their bread and butter, but for Pontiac, help them work in the inlines and V's. With the AWD, mounting the engine longitudinally or transversely wouldn't matter. If these ideas and problems are kept in mind from the top, it can be done. And to BV, I wasn't asking for there to be a 200-inch-long intermediate. If that was the case, I may as well stick to talking all this Zeta stuff. Just a further back and up roofline with thinner front seatbacks (getting rid of those hard knee panels on them, at that) and lower rear seat bottoms for more head and leg room for the six-footers. Getting in the back of the G6 sedan makes one claustrophobic....the room of the replacement should be more like the 92 GA. It's OK to even go the 3-series route, where although the sedan/wagon and coupe/GTO clearly are of the same line and look alike, that they wouldn't really share body panels, as the lengths here and there are different for each. This wouldn't mean the sedan wouldn't fit the smallblock, however. The coupe/GTO doesn't even have to BE as long (current one's only 189 inches and the rear's got more room than the G6, ain't that something?)...unless you wanted to make it a 2-door sedan, like old Accord 2-doors, so you can actually fit people back there. All of this is why I say you design this car from the GTO backwards instead of from the base sedan upwards.

They're screaming for a modern-day, GM-style Cobra. If a 302 can be crammed into older Miatas, the smallblock can get into the Solstice. But personally, I'd be happy with throwing in the HF. I think many of these conversions will happen....thing is, we're gonna have to see 200,000 Solstices and Skies hit the road and five years pass by.

The thing with cats on this board, Petra, is this: everyone has their emotional attachment to their brands that brought them into the GM fold, or more to the point, their brand's glory years. In basic, too many attachments, not to mention too many of the wrong ones. The Camaro (and the Firebird and GTO, C&G afterthoughts) shouldn't be and should never be a big car or based on a big car...there's plenty of ways around this for GM. The current Mustang is based on a Focus. Kappa is found to not only be based on Delta, but a piecemeal of a ton of other GM platforms. Epsilon II is rumored to be a flexible platform on one end, and a strict front-driver on another. I understand all these super Chevy fans want a Camaro in the worst way. IMO, basing it on a big car would be the worst way. The Mustang this car is aimed squarely at would kill it in overall feel. No one wants the pony car to be another pat on the back like the Solstice, you want the benchmark the Corvette is. In general, time should be taken with that car. I don't have the emotional attachment to the Camaro to want it back yesterday, so I say explore other options. On the GTO, while it definitely has to be a two door, it isn't a big car either, nor does it have to stand alone. It was never an exotic, it came from a volume car...even this current car does, it just happens to be one from another hemisphere. To get the volume that makes GTO sense, it's better to make it the top trim of the next intermediate coupe, whether it's called G6 or whatever. But what you do is you design the intermediate from the GTO downwards, as opposed to the base sedan upward, then the car is capable of what you want it to do from jumpstreet. Pontiac has a chance for their whole mid-size lineup to be done right. I personally don't even see the division locked into using Epsilon II for it. If you can't use a strict rear-drive chassis, the option is there to use a chassis you can give standard full-time AWD, which from there, the option exists to make the cheapies below GTO strict front-drives. If VW, Jaguar, and Ford can do it, why can't Pontiac? It's such a mess, it's hard not to ramble about. But it's quite fixable. Some of the prejudices, biases, and emotional attachments have to be let go of first. None of these divisions have to be all things to all people, they don't have to step on one another's toes. Pontiac and Buick don't have to be in the family car business, just like Chevy doesn't have to be in evey segment on the planet. And to the others, please stop with the weirdness about bringing back names like Chevelle and Bel Air.....Chevelle belongs back in the 60s, and Bel Air simply doesn't fit what Chevy really is at any trim level (one could argue that about Malibu too, but hey....)