gmcbob

Brrrr...I just got the chills looking at that picture. I spent a few days up in Buffalo 2 weeks ago - looked and felt like that the whole time.

Wow, I'm totally on the edge of my seat. This is going to be one hum-dinger of a Holiday Season for the people working at the Big 3. My "Spidey Senses" are usually pretty good, but I have no idea on this one. If I were a betting man, (and I'm not), but, my bet would be that GM (and Ford and Chrysler) get their money from the Govt, avoiding a Ch 11 filing, but with huge strings attached (like Wagoner may have to not pay himself until the company shows a profit, etc, etc). These board members and executives aren't as stupid as they seem, I think they all realize that filing for bankruptcy would be the kiss of death for their sales - and ultimately - for their company and their credibility. You thought a 45% drop in sales in October was bad, if they filed Ch 11, their sales would drop like 90% or something. The revenue stream would stop instantly. The only thing that could possibly save them at that point would be this bailout money from the Govt. , because from what I've read, it would be nearly impossible to get debtor in possession financing. A judge would come in and start selling off brands, factories, technology, etc, to anyone with cash. Your 2011 Volt would be wearing a Toyota badge on it (and of course everyone would think they were the ones that developed it).

I was thinking about that today too though - how cool would it be if they drove their own products out there. And obviously, they'd want to take their most fuel efficient and/or useful products (like Chrysler takes their Caravan, maybe GM drives out there in a Hybrid Vue or Malibu or something, Ford takes an Escape Hybrid or maybe a new Fusion Hybrid). They'd want to bring their most modern and up to date products. I think it could work. But there's no doubt though, even if they carried crosses and rode on the backs of donkeys, it's going to be a f@#king crazy uphill battle I think for them to prove their worthiness to our insanely stupid politicians.

I was actually thinking Rick Wagoner should drive there in a 2009 Hummer H2, Alan Mullaly could drive there in an extended Lincoln Navigator L, and Robert Nardelli could drive there in a Chrysler Aspen. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

The modern GTO was cool. I had sort of thought about trying to find a used (2006) GTO before I bought my Vue after the Hurricane, but I was so pressed for time and things were so goofed up around here that I really couldn't. I think the problem with the modern day GTO was it was too expensive for the type of audience they were going after. For many thousands less you could be driving a Mustang GT. If they would have stickered the GTO around $25k or so, it would have been a much bigger hit I think. I did see a purple 6.0L with the dual exhausts in traffic yesterday (perfect shape too, guy obviously takes great care of it). It made me really think that that car was a lot cooler than people gave it credit for. But in typical GM fashion it was too little, too late and too expensive. They should have had that thing over here in the late 90s (when it was new Down Under) right alongside the Trans Am in showrooms.

Wait though - do they want a "plan" so that they get part of the $700 B TARP money, or a "plan" and then they release the DOE money early? Or do they get both?

Yeah, I kind of figured this would happen. I'm not entirely sure how this will pan out, but I'm seriously beginning to wonder if GM is going to get their money. Even if they produce a good "plan", I have this fear that this is going to get bogged down in some really grotesque political battle between Polosi on the left, not wanting to touch the oh so sacred DOE monies and the Republicans on the right not wanting to touch the already ridiculous $700 Billion TARP monies. Finger pointing and political grandstanding will ultimately kill any chances that these companies have on what are essentially just cheap loans from the Govt because they can't get them through traditional banks. Unfortunately I don't really think this has too much to do with "Detroit", and more to do with bipartisan finger pointing and politics as usual, indecisive Washington bull$h!. I'm feeling slightly pessimistic right now - I think they may be doomed. Not because of anything they did, but because our fearless leaders are really just a bunch of stupid asses. Who knows - this all just seems like a gigantic circus right now to me.

Well, based on all the things I'm reading on the internet, it kind of sounds like the Big 3 are going to have to wait until January to get any loans out of Washington. (I actually think that at GM and Ford can make it to that point). Is this going to be "Obama to the rescue"???

:rotflmao: Thanks - I needed that laugh PCS

Wow, just wow. These are dark days indeed for car nuts like us. And to think, just as it looked like GM had the ship starting to sail a little better, started coming back out with some real good product, and the Volt right around the corner, etc, etc, the economy takes a huge $h! and the credit markets freeze up. It truly blows that the Big 3 are going to the Govt., hands out for a loan like this for the entire public to see (and criticize). I knew as soon as I started hearing a few weeks back that GM and the other two were heading to Washington for money, that all the anti-car, anti-Detroit loonies in the media and on Capitol Hill would come out of the woodwork and utterly piss me off. I think I'm going to officially hang up my car enthusiast hat during this holiday season and take up some completely different hobby. I keep saying bird watching, but I may just start getting into cooking - I like food, maybe spending some time in the kitchen will make me feel better? Photography is cool too. Yeah, photography. Hmmm...

Wow, based on all the sentiment I've been reading in the comments sections of these papers, the only thing I can say to the management and employees at GM is, "good luck - you're gonna need it". Nobody believes in GM anymore. It's truly amazing how horrible the perception of GM actually is in this country. The average person who isn't up on current events (or just doesn't happen to look around when driving) can't see that most of Toyota's current models are actually gas guzzling trucks, and that Toyota has actually followed GM down the path of building fuel inefficient vehicles for the sake of making a lot of money. Yet, they somehow are seen as being more "innovative". What's more, Toyota, Nissan and the rest of the foreign "transplants" were allowed to build factories here through gigantic tax breaks and next to nothing land, through essentially the same processes (lobbying) of strong arming Washington politicians that the Big 3 are using now. But none of these so called "intellectuals" are calling the Japanese companies on it. Never mind the fact that every dollar we send over there gets sent back to us in the form of a "loan" - which we pay back to them at interest. Moreover, it isn't like GM doesn't build fuel efficient, competitive vehicles. Most of the current vehicles offered by them are not only fuel efficient, but are considered world class in the eyes of the automotive press. The folklore that America only builds gas guzzling, non-competitive products needs to stop. While I think that Toyota, Nissan and the like build some really good cars, I also think that the Big 3 do as well - but you'd never know that if you didn't bother to read anything current about the industry.

I've got this feeling that either the Big 3 will not get the money they're asking for, or, if they do get it, they'll have some real tough constraints put on them, that nobody on this board will want to see (like, goodbye 422 horsepower Camaro). Let's just hope that the Big 3 executives do an absolutely stellar job pleading their case next week to our completely clueless and idiotic leaders and lawmakers. If they don't, this will turn into a website dedicated to bird watching and underwater basket weaving come about February.

I did it, but here's what I think I want in return, if GM is successful in getting their money: An unlimited lifetime warranty for the new Vue I just bought. A free loaner Camaro SS when the Vue goes into the dealer for anything - from oil changes to warranty work.

Ding ding ding ding...by Jove I think you've got it! Of course politicians from the South aren't interested in helping out the domestics - they're getting paid off by the Asians and the Germans to allow them to operate in their states for next to nothing. It's absolutely f@#king insane if you ask me. Of course the New York Times won't really spin it that way, as I'm convinced those know-nothings (about the car industry) want to see GM die, as well as their loyal readership. We live in a f@#ked up country of people who don't give a $h! about one another, or whether or not we can succeed on the international playing field. We'd rather rant and rave about how awesome Japanese hybrid cars are and how GM missed out on an opportunity, while we watch Toyota, Nissan and now even Kia introduce more trucks and SUV's built on free land in the South, given to them by our fearless leaders in Washington. We're a nation of ass holes (I'm directing that sentiment at all of the Left and Right Coast "Intelligencia" writing op-ed's for the Times and the like), and the collapse of GM is going to be extremely painful for me to watch, especially considering the fact GM put food on my table through the 70s and early 80s. My gut is telling me that GM isn't going to get the loan. All the while the Asian companies will continue to get carte blanche benefits in this country, and continue to secure themselves as having the most distinct advantage ever on an unfair playing field - which has been quite unfair for some time now. We need to tell those ass holes in Washington, and the writers and "analysts" that come on NPR and rip on the Big 3 that they need to all jump on board and come in for the big win when it comes to American technological leadership and industrial might. We're losing my friends, we're losing big time - and the downfall of our domestic auto industry is going to be very, very painful, on all fronts. George Bush being "cool" on helping out the auto manufacturers is proof positive that this guy is a complete goon.

This is the only half way decent picture I have off my camera phone - however I did take some video which I can send the link to once I get it uploaded onto Google Video when I get back home. It was insanely cold at Niagara Falls yesterday.

I drove here from Houston in the new Vue. Took two 12 hour days to get here but it was worth seeing some fall foliage. I'm heading back through Kentucky and then down through Atlanta over the next 2 days (to visit more family). Lots of GM's up in this area, kind of interesting to see. The Vue is running great - but I can only get the heater to work if I turn it all the way to 85 - cold air otherwise. Very weird. Anywho...I knocked off 2 more elusive states on the way (Missouri and Indiana) - I have 9 more to go and I've been to all 50. Nothing like Neil Young during an autumn Missouri sunset on I-55 heading into Illinois.

I'm sorry about your loss PCS.

I don't think it's going to be bankruptcy, that would be the kiss of death for their sales, and they know it big time. I think it's going to be killing some models or maybe even the consolidation of Saturn into the BPG "brand" or something, with the ultimate elimination of Pontiac. But bankruptcy, I highly doubt that.

I took it by the Saturn dealer, eh, retailer, last night and had them change the oil. I hope they reset the oil life monitor even though the light wasn't on. I'm kind of anal about that $h!.

I recently bought a generator, and it was recommended that the oil be changed after the first 50 hours of use and then longer intervals afterwards. I'm assuming the idea would be the same for a new car engine too? I did look at the owners manual and the only advice under the "break in" period for the Vue was to drive at varying speeds for the first 500 miles (same with our G35 too actually), but nothing about oil changes. The engine oil being dark is one thing, but what I found odd was it seemed like there was too much oil on the dipstick (it went an inch or so up past the 3 circles).

Actually, I agree with you on that one for sure. My issue this week is time though - I have a cousin in from out of town and he's helping me build a new shed (old shed destroyed during Ike) and I have to go to work tomorrow. I dunno though, I may just do it myself anyway.

I just checked the engine oil in my new 2008 Saturn Vue 3.6L V6. I have just shy of 2800 miles on it and the engine oil is super dark. The oil in my old Jimmy with 136000 miles on it was never as dark as this. Do you think this is just because the engine is new and being broken in? The other thing I find odd - it seems like there's too much oil in the engine; It goes way up the dipstick past the 3 circles. (keep in mind the car has been sitting still all night). I'm thinking about taking it over to the Boob Lube and getting it changed now. I'm taking it on a road trip to Buffalo next week and I don't really want trouble. Opinions?

That Sports Tourer looks awesome. If I were the type of guy who traded in cars all the time, I'd consider trading in my Vue for that if it were sold in the US (Buick or Saturn badged).

hahahahahaha!

I did read once that he owned a 300. I think he now drives an Escape Hybrid. I also heard McCain drives a CTS (or maybe it was a DTS).