gmcbob

I always wonder where these old cars we all used to have are today? I mean, did my Z28 get into the hands of some crazy 16 year old and ultimately get destroyed? Is my old Sierra on a farm in Mexico or something?? Where are they now??

You know, I may have posted that scanned pic of my old Camaro on here before. Although I'm pretty sure I haven't. Of all my past cars I think that's the one I miss the most, hands down. I remember getting insanely good mileage (for a 300+ hp V8) with that car on the highway. I pulled off a 30.8 average between here and Dallas on that very trip.

2009 black CTS V in a parking lot in Sugar Land, TX - I stared as if it were a hot 24 year old girl in a bikini. And then I stared some more.

I have too many computers and not everything organized correctly. But while I was thinking of a couple of past road trips from my last post, I thought I would post a couple of good pics I had on this machine. I really miss my Z28 a lot. That was hands down one of the coolest cars I ever had the pleasure of owning and driving. I had the car about 9 months or so and had a week off so I decided to take a road trip to Denver to see my cousin. It was one of the first big road trips I took by myself (stopped in Lubbock to stay with a friend) - and it was certainly very memorable. I got to the New Mexico border and had to stop to take this shot. God I loved that LS1 V8. This is a photo I found not too long ago and decided to give my wife's ancient scanner a try. This was October of 1999 (if memory serves me right). These were taken during a drive up to Durango (same cousin - he moved) in 2003. By now the Camaro was a distant memory and I was already two years into the Sierra. This was just a solid truck - and I put a ton of miles on it driving it all over the country. On the way back I drove through Chaco Canyon (very, very interesting place in Northwestern New Mexico)

Thanks Man Road trips are awesome if you have the time to do it. There's so many things to see along the road in America - it's an incredibly beautiful country. I've taken a lot of trips out West actually. I've driven between Houston and Durango countless times, and I've also driven up to Seattle more than once (one time via California and another time via Wyoming and Yellowstone Natl Park)- which is actually quite insane when I think about it (most of those treks were in my 2001 Sierra and then in my 2004 Sierra). Take the G8 out on the highway and stretch her legs a bit, she'll thank you for it.

Thanks for watching the video PCS. Houston has definitely gotten a lot better in certain areas - especially inside the loop where my wife and I live. We live near the Heights (near TC Jester / 11th St / Shepherd) and this area has become majorly gentrified over the last 10 years or so. Areas just a few short years ago that were basically very dangerous to be in after dark are now filled with expensive town homes and nicely renovated older homes. And in these neighborhoods, the old run down buildings have been turned into swanky lounges and wine bars. If you were familiar with Washington Ave. back in the 80s and 90s and how run down it was, then driving down it now you wouldn't even recognize it. The downtown and "Midtown" areas are way more alive than they were even in the late 90s. Some may say that this isn't necessarily a good thing that older sections of cities are being taken over and moved upscale - but Houston really needed a good scrub down IMO. I think the Heights still has enough of it's old character and enough of a left of center crowd to still give it a unique feel for here. The Montrose area is still pretty much the same as it's always been. There's a few more nice restaurants in that area now, but it still has a huge eclectic, artsy crowd as well as one of the largest gay communities outside of SF in the country. And of course at the end of Montrose lie some of the greatest museums I've ever been in - MFAH rocks. Rice Village and the West University area probably looks exactly the same as you remember it (if you ever went out down in that area). There's a bar over there that I like called the Gingerman that has a $h!load of beer on tap from all over the world . The Gingerman may or may not have been around back in the day, but I have a feeling that it's been around for a while. The East side of the city though is still very impoverished - and I never venture into the Deer Park / Pasadena 225 corridor unless I absolutely have to. Being on that side of town actually gives me a headache during the summer months as the pollution is absolutely horrible from the vast amount of chemical refineries over there. In a nutshell though, Houston still kind of sucks. I really enjoy hiking, wide open spaces, mountains and fresh air - and there's basically none of that here. The weather here is okay in the winter - sometimes very pleasant in the winter - but it absolutely sucks hyena balls in the summer. When it's 98 degrees with 90% humidity and my nuts are dragging three feet behind me because I'm sweating so profusely (and that's just walking from my car to the building across the parking lot) - I ask myself what in the world I'm doing here. Oh well...at least we have a pool in a backyard - and that gives me an excuse to be outside in the summer (there would be no other reason to be outside here between June and September). Oh, and you can't float around in a pool in Houston, in summer, without a cold Shiner or Lone Star in your hand.

Definitely very good reasons to be proud of her. I thought for sure though that you would have bought her a new G8. :AH-HA_wink:

You'll laugh, you'll cry - you'll kiss 18 minutes goodbye! I've lived in the Houston area since I was in junior high (with a one year stint in Colorado a few years back) but I was born in Western New York. I still have family in the Buffalo area but I don't go up there very often. In November I drove up there to see my sister and her husband and decided to take the video camera along to capture some of the trip along the way. Unfortunately while I was there I somehow erased a ton of footage of the trip from Houston to Buffalo, as well as footage of Hurricane Ike ripping up my yard. I'm actually really bummed that that happened. This is footage of Niagara Falls and a separate spot along the Niagara River on Grand Island NY. The rest of the footage is the road trip back from that area towards Houston. I drove back through Kentucky (my wife was there on business so it worked out well), then on to Atlanta to see my other sister. I drove from Atlanta to Houston in one day on the last day of the trip. I dunno, nothing too exciting - but perhaps some of you guys live in these areas and may find it interesting. I thought it would be fun to share it with the people on this board. It's the road - and our common ground is cars - the road, cars...it all fits together I think. What also makes this quasi interesting for all of you - my 2008 Vue was two months old at this point. Also, when I wasn't listening to my iPod (which you'll hear a lot of on this video), I was listening to all of the news on XM radio about our newly elected president and at that point, whether or not GM was going to have to go the Govt for loans to stay alive. It was the beginning of the financial mess, and winter was starting to settle in up North. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3912094477262296947

This doesn't surprise me at all. Believe it or not, I've always been a huge fan of geography and maps in general. I remember being one of the very few kids in 5th or 6th grade who could lable all 50 states on a map of the United States.

GM is so f*cked up. What in the hell is wrong with this company? I can't believe the same company that built my sweet ass 68 Impala Convertible is in this much friggin trouble. Dios Mio

I've been having similar feelings lately - considering I put my faith in GM by buying a Saturn last year and now Saturn is dead (and so is the car's resale value). I'm seriously thinking that after this car, I may be switching over to Ford. Yeah, a new Ford Taurus "EcoBoost" SHO could definitely be a contender for my next vehicle.

"if GM had a clue as to how to get the job done" I agree wholeheartedly with this Camino. For years and years I watched my generation become more and more interested in fully loaded Accords, TL's, Lexus IS, Infiniti G's, loaded Camry's, etc, etc...as Buick and Pontiac offered less competitive, and fewer and fewer models throughout the 90s and then into this current decade. This happened while GM simultaneously killed Oldsmobile (the one "middle" brand that was actually attracting young professionals who may look at imports, especially women). One word for this - stupid. Okay, two words - insanely stupid. I don't know, I think at this point GM is somewhat hopeless. Their strong point is still trucks in the eyes of too many consumers. Okay, maybe Cadillac. If they go into any type or form of bankruptcy, their sales are going to absolutely tank. Its going to be terrifyingly ugly I'm afraid.

Being a GMC fan and having owned 3 GMC vehicles in the last few years, I want to like it. But I'm not sure if I do, and I really don't know why.

What about a platform like Nissan has (FM platform?) That platform produces everything from the M to the G to the 350Z? I could see GM using a Sigma style architecture to support the same type of product lineup. The CTS, the STS and the Camaro. Why not?

This doesn't surprise me at all. A couple of basic thoughts pop into my head when I think about all the BS going on right now when it comes to (auto) bailout talk and GM. 1) GM needs better PR people. For the last 4 years they seem to be either asleep or non-existent. That's why they generally get pretty negative press. 2) Time heals all wounds. They basically just need to get through this next couple of months, get their money from the Govt. and hopefully have the market turn back around. I'm kind of thinking they'll get their money. This will all come down to politics - while the bailouts are generally unpopular, disgruntled (and jobless) UAW worker votes will be harder to get back than people who just simply oppose bailouts. Granting GM more money will not be a make or break deal for a lot of voters in two years when they completely forget that it even happened in the first place. But a GM factory worker that was laid off because GM had to go bankrupt due to lack of Govt. funding - well that's a whole different story. Those people would be hard pressed to vote for him again. Obama and his advisers aren't stupid. If they haven't considered this idea, I'd be surprised. 3) Americans don't like the idea of bailouts, and they're scared about GM going completely under - but that's right now, March of 2009. Americans have pretty short term memories, and I know that if (once) GM gets their money and when by July or August it's no longer a hot topic, the same folks that think GM can go and screw themselves now just might be buying one of their cars. Maybe not this summer, but in a year or two - it won't even matter if the product is competitive and priced correctly. People will forget or not really care that this happened by then I think.

It truly amazes me how a lot of these guys writing about cars (especially cars like this) totally over scrutinize interior plastic quality. Give me a break. Compared to my 98 Camaro, this new Camaro's interior is absolutely light years ahead of it in terms of style, personality and quality. I sat in the Camaro at the Houston Auto Show back in February and thought the materials they used were just fine. For the price, this car will be able to hold it's own against other sports coupes in this category. My wife and I own a 2008 G35, with a really sweet interior, and this new Camaro felt almost just as nice basically. Obviously I didn't drive the car, but my overall first impression just walking around the car and sitting in it was that it was solidly built, impressively styled both inside and out and should sell fairly well, even in the depressed market. Even if I wasn't partial to GM, I'd still take this car any day over a Hyundai Genesis and I would get way more satisfaction out of the L99 or LS3 Camaro over any 370Z you let me drive. Plastic on the top of the dash that may feel a little harder to the touch than say, a high end Nissan product, will be completely irrelevant to any warm blooded American car guy (or girl) the second he smashes down on the pedal and feels the thrust and hears the roar of a 400+ horsepower LS V8. Like no $h!. I still think it's kind of funny though how this new Camaro V6 is only rated at 29mpg HWY. I consistently got high 20s (even a 30.8 once) on the highway in my 98 LS1 powered Camaro - with the 4 speed automatic.

I'm happy to hear that Alpha is back on. I've always been excited about the prospect of a wee bit lighter and smaller Cadillac CTS - even if it's badged along with a Buick Riviera or something - I think it would be sweet. Oh, and not to mention a light and agile NG Camaro. That said, I saw a black G8 GT in the parking lot at work that I couldn't stop walking over to the window to stare down upon today (I'm on the 6th floor). And much like every time I see a G8, I just can't help but think what this really cool sedan would look like styled as a Buick (okay, we all know its the Chinese Park Avenue). I think if GM wants to emulate BMW with their rear drive sedan offerings here in the USA, perhaps they should consider an Alpha Pontiac (3 Series) and keep the Zeta platform around as a Buick Park Avenue (5-7 Series) and then have the same cars over at Caddy (Alpha, Zeta, and Sigma if its still around).

It's weird, and maybe it's just my imagination, but it just seems like there's this younger crowd looking at and buying more domestics. And it seems to have gained more traction just recently. I think you're right Oldsmoboi on your theory of affordability (when it comes to buying "fun" cars). Lets face it, over the course of the last few years, more and more enthusiasts out there working a part time job or a fresh out of college with an entry level job were not going to march down to a Ford dealer and blow $27000 + taxes on a loaded up Mustang GT - especially when they start shopping around for insurance - even in a great economy. So suddenly a well made Civic or Mazda 3 starts sounding a lot more appealing on the old budget. As I typed this out, I just realized that Ford's biggest mistake was to not make the base Mustang V6's way more powerful than it is. Anywho...this is a game that the domestics just didn't really play well in, and sort of priced themselves out of when they decided to make pony cars real expensive during the late 90s. Even the old (non V6) F-Bodies were starting to become a financial stretch for a lot of the young enthusiasts who ended up buying one (like me - my Z28 was a real wallop to my budget when I was 24 when I bought mine new - but I loved it so much I figured I'd just drink really cheap beer and limit my other purchases - big time). I think GM and Ford should have really took a long hard look at what they were doing to themselves when they started pricing nameplates like Camaro, Firebird and Mustang up into the stratosphere back in the day (relative to GTI/Civic). Which leads me to another thought I just had now...what if GM would have just gone ahead and spent the money on developing this new Camaro on a much lighter, smaller 370Z sized rear drive chassis and priced the car more in line with a Civic or GTI? I'm sure they could have come up with something - considering they have Solstice and CTS parts to work with? Who knows? I do like that they didn't wimp out on the V6 at any rate- although I think they should have tweaked the V6 to push out 330 hp (like Nissan) from the factory - but whatever, 304 is respectable.

This is an interesting discussion - how can GM lead the way with innovative new products while still being somewhat mired in the past mentally? This new Camaro is awesome no doubt, but it won't attract Civic and GTI buyers generally speaking - this car attracts a more or less shrinking market. This is where getting rid of Saturn could be a real bad move on their part. I drive a Vue (and I also used to drive a Z28, and love this new Camaro), but I'm not your typical Saturn customer. I think Saturn could have been the division or brand or group to market and sell affordable, fun, front wheel drive Opels while letting Chevrolet take care of your more traditional GM buyers with Camaro and Impala. But perhaps the upcoming Volt will bring the radical shift that GM desperately wants; a typical Civic/GTI/Fit/Yaris/Prius buyer into a Chevy dealership considering a domestic built small car. Perhaps the Volt is the trend setting vehicle that also ensures healthy Camaro sales too? I had this thought today as I was driving around in Houston. Could buying a domestic somehow be a sort of new "trendy" thing with the 18-34 crowd again? I seem to be seeing more new domestics than normal - mostly trucks and SUV's of course, but they do seem to be holding their own. And the drivers are young too.

It would be a disaster. GM needs to convince the Obama Auto Panel that CH 11 is not the way out of this. It sounds good (to some) and looks good on paper, but I truly think their sales would drop at least 75%, if not more. They'd never make it out.

And now that I've seen the conversation has come around to Zeta, I saw a brand new white G8 GT driving around near my neighborhood yesterday. I keep forgetting that these are actually pretty big cars (by today's standards). It got me thinking how GM should keep Zeta around as a Buick (Buick Electra or Park Avenue) and give it the direct injection 304 hp CTS/STS V6 as the base engine and have the 6.0L V8 as an option. GM could still sell the G8 I suppose, but also have a luxurious Buick version of it - I think it could be very profitable as a Buick with a nice interior like the one in China. If marketed right, it could grab potential GS and LS Lexus buyers. They've already (slowly) started grabbing some import buyers of luxury crossovers with the Enclave. Why not grab the full size, high dollar luxury sedan buyers too with a big, proper Buick? I mean, isn't that what Buick used to be known for "back in the day"? I remember when my Dad worked there and he'd bring home LeSabre and Electra company cars every other day. Now those same (in a modern sense) types of cars are sold by Lexus and Infiniti. GM could grab those profitable sales back from them with the resources they have today (Zeta) marketed as Buicks. We know it and they know it, but for some reason they just decided not to. But what do I know? And right now I can see the writing on the wall for anything that isn't front wheel drive and fuel efficient at GM. This Govt. appointed board is going to strip whatever inkling of a soul GM had left right out of them friends. Which comes back around to Opel. I think at this point, GM has nothing to lose by at least keeping a 50% stake in Opel. It still appears to me that Opel provides some good resources to GM when it comes to front drive small cars - something that GM needs to be better at marketing here in NA if it wants to really survive beyond these loans I fear.

I think a book about GM (from a modern day insider) would sell. Trust me, if goofy coffee table books about designer bathrooms can sell, then a book about the world's largest car maker would sell too. My Dad worked for GM, starting off with Chevrolet in the 60s and then as a "Zone Manager" for Buick during the 70s and 80s. He went back to work indirectly for GM in the late 90s / early 2000s doing work auditing their dealer network (through a 3rd party contractor). During that time period, he would tell me all the time he truly felt that GM had lost their way - big time. He started predicting that GM would continue to drastically lose market share until they were a complete shadow of themselves by 2010. He was right on the money. His favorite comment was that GM didn't know "whether they were afoot or on horseback". But I bring this up because he was the quintessential car guy and over the years, GM and their products meant a lot to him (especially the products that were built during his years of employment there of course). It really bothered him, even after he got out of that industry for a while, to see Honda and Toyota steal away their business. It must have really sucked to see something you work hard to build and defend more or less get taken away from you by mismanagement and bad public perception. Incidentally, you're making it sound like Opel and GME will be two different companies, yet the articles are saying GM would retain a certain percentage stake in Opel. Would not working for Opel mean that you're still 50% GM? Just wondering. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably jump ship. The only way I'd stay on board and try to fix GM would be if I were independently wealthy and I could afford to be suddenly let go. On Second thought, if I were independently wealthy, I'd probably just buy a really nice ranch up near Durango, Colorado in the Rocky Mountains and spend my days hiking, fishing and drinking good wine and beer.

So PCS, do you like the company you work for or not? I'm confused when I read your posts. On the one hand, you seem to generally take some pride in your history with the company and the company itself, going so far as to to defend certain programs and factories (in NA) that you were once a part of. But on the other hand, you tend to show wholehearted disgust with how GM conducts itself in the global market place (especially GMNA).

Yeah, no kidding - it really is a true Heinz 57. With that said however, for being a mutt it drives pretty nice (for what it is), has some of the best interior materials I've ever had in any of the cars I've ever personally owned from GM, and overall, it feels pretty solidly built. For what I paid, it's not a bad little car.

I dunno, I'm a little bummed about this. It sounds like GM still would have a majority stake in Opel, but that it would basically be the beginning of the end for the two organizations working as close as they do now on product development, definitely. Honestly, I think the new product that GME had a part in developing (like the upcoming LaCrosse) looks really good. I was really looking forward to seeing more GME influence over here in NA (I know if we were all sitting around at the local bar together having beers right now somewhere here in the US most of you would boo me out of the room for saying that), but c'mon guys - lets face it - the Europeans build some pretty desirable small and mid size front drivers, just the stuff GM needs right now to comply with the new CAFE regulations. I don't think it hurts GM in the least to have this small and mid size car resource to go to when they need something viable for the NA market (like Ford has). Who knows, GM will still have quite a bit of resources once all of the dust clears I think. Incidentally, maybe PCS can shed some light for me - but what in the world exactly is my Saturn Vue? Wikipedia says the Theta platform was originally designed by GMNA, but that the 2008 Vue was designed by Daewoo. I thought the new Vue's platform was GME based off an original GMNA platform?