gm4life

Like flushing it down the toilet, lining a little box, using it to wipe your ass, putting it in a bag, setting it on fire, and throwing it at someone.

It might be my last chance to help GM out by getting a new car from for a while.

Read it another way.

12,000 Pontiacs were sold because people preferred the styling, name, whatever over what many on this board consider to be superior cars. Every retail Pontiac G6 sale happens when someone prefers the G6 over the Malibu, Aura, Accord, Altima, Camry, Sonata, or Galant.

Exactly.

Fixed. Seems more accurate now.

No one seems to want to face the fact that Pontiac is a far stronger brand than Buick, Saab, Saturn, (and in some ways Cadillac).

Shooting at Pontiac means you've picked the wrong target.

It's just common sense.

The G8 and Solstice point the way forward for Pontiac, not the G3,5,6, Vibe.

Anyone notice that the G8 tripled its sales this month vs. last year?

That's a fine performance under normal conditions, let alone in the biggest economic downturn in decades.

Pontiac is in a perfect position to build a viable, vibrant, niche brand with high margins - give it the product and you'll be there.

Wrapped within a BPG structure, this is the best way to go.

Might help if Buick were a bit more appealing and aimed at garnering the volume that Pontiac is currently capable of. Otherwise, Buick is just baggage in North America.

Buick needs Pontiac, and they both need GMC. Without this combination, the only sensible move is to kill them all at once.

Thanks Camino you make way to much sense to belong around here tho!

Even though the G8 alone most likely sold more cars to retail customers than Buick sold cars to retail customers?

Maybe that's what Pontiac represents to you, but to me it represents cars like the GTO like I own, and the G8 and Solstice. That it can sell in better volumes than every other GM brand besides GMC and Chevy shows it deserves a chance to succeed like every other brand has been given.

Why are you even on a GM website if you don't like bland jellybean rental cars? I'm pretty sure that's what 95% of all GM cars have been for the past 20 years. So why would you single out Pontiac when Buick, Chevy, and Saturn have been mostly the same?

I say Amen to that.

Considering the source, that's a nice review.

I totally agree, it was a good article.

This is the biggest piece of sh*t article about any car I have read in a long time. The author clearly beliefs he is better than everyone and that American's should not be able to select what they drive. I hope you get your a$$ run over by some red-neck in a Silverado, you smug, Prius driving bitch.

ANYTIME a Caddy can be called better than a Lexus is a great thing IMO. Means a step in the right direction.

I agree! Great review, and if Cadillac can get called Lexus enough, people might actually buy there products. Exactly why I believe Buick as a brand is worth-less. I thought Buick was suppose to go after Lexus? I am very excited to start seeing them on the road.

Camino, isn't this the type of polarizing design you think GM needs? It isn't going to appeal to everyone. Far better than the blandtastic 1st gen Equinox and its worthless counterpart, the Equinox with a grille insert.

The Equinox with a grille insert is the Torrent, something I own and am proud of. I would rather have nice and bland or clean than this. Although the second gen Equinox is good looking but if this is suppose to replace the Torrent, I am glad I have my Pontiac. Even if it was in your eyes a cheap rebadge.

Looks great DF!

Like I said before, my Mom has a 2007 Aveo and it has been good. Hers has about 13,000 miles and not once have we had to bring it back. It gets window sticker as far as mileage goes.

Thanks for the info, glad to hear it. Is it a sedan or hatch?

stick or automatic?

If I get any small car aka. Cobalt, G5, Aveo5 or G3 it WILL be a 5spd! No way it would be an automatic unless I found a deal I couldn't pass up then, I would look at a 06-09 Impala under 40K for about 9,000.

Thanks for all the constructive comments. If anyone see's new stripper XFE Cobalts 10K or less (prolly LS trim) let me know, but uhhh something is still strangly appealing about the G3/Aveo5. They actually have 5 and 4 star crash test ratings, I doubled checked. I know Von they would be SLOW, but its a forth car not a road triper or cross country vehicle. I have my "Great American Touring Sedan" for that and my cross-over for those treks. I understand it is a Daewoo, but a very nice one at that. You know me I am sucker for something with twin kidneys! Keep the thoughts coming.

Well everyone around C&G knows I have thinking about another pre-owned GM car, I started thinking late 90's N/A Bonneville SSE, 02-04 Seville, 00-02 Firebird, then went onto 06-07 Monte Carlo's and now I have come full circle to the Cobalt/G5 and Aveo5/G3. For all the folks wanting to drop cheap shots at this boring FWD 4 cylinder economy cars, don't post! If you have a positive or constructive comments please post. I am really considering a new small GM car due to the tax write-off (a good idea from the White House) and want to help GM out again. I have been really considering the Aveo5/G3 (09 models only) and was wondering if I have gone crazy, going from a large car to small fuel efficent wagon! Anyone have any comments or driven/ridden in one? The Cobalt/G5 XFE Coupe's seem to be more than I want to spend, and Aveo5's I have found have been under 10K new for 1LT's with sticks, and I hope G3's would be about the same or within 1 grand or so. The thing is I am willing to wait till late summer maybe even fall if I can get a deal on a new Aveo5 or G3. Also I would be willing to go pre-owned with low miles so long as it is a 5spd. and then would like more features for the same cost as a more "stripped" new one. (i.e. power locks, windows, cruise, alloys would be nice) Any thoughts, I have ridden in one and actually liked it (09 Aveo5), reviews have been pretty positive from what I can gather. As for the Cobalt/G5 goes I have been in many and know I would like one in a coupe and features don't matter because all have a air and a cd player. Still are too pricey and would rather have another hatch. So any thoughts...

Also I still am considering 06-09 pre-owned Impala's (and 06-07 Monte Carlo's for that matter) under 10K with less than 40,000 miles...

This will really throw you off but I have ridden in a new Aveo5 and really liked it. In fact if I can get one under 10,000 new with a 5spd. a/c and cruise that might be my newest addition to my fleet, or a G3. I have some GM card money (not as much as I want, a few large items could change that) and the sales tax can be written off. For the size of the car I was very impressed with plus I could get a STICK again. Get my son or I ready for that new Camaro SS! It would be a chance to help GM out again...

If I had to pick...

'87 Buick GNX

'70 Buick Skylark GSX Stage I

'08-Current Enclave

'03-'05 Park Ave Ultra in Diamond White

Behold, the Aztek of GMC ...

That is exactly what I was thinking. Pontiac got one now GMC got there own.

If this was the replacement for the Torrent... I am glad I have what I do. I'll keep my cheap plastic interior, pushrod 3.4L V6 and 185hp with decent styling thank you. Damn this thing is ugly, what in the hell were they thinking honestly? Equinox will outsell this 3 to 1 I bet.

The Aveo5 and G3 are decent cars?

I'll let you know when I stop laughing about that one, it may be a day or two.

Seriously Roger, the Aveo and G3 are crummy, unsafe, inefficient boxes of crap compared to just about every other vehicle on the road. Hell, I'd take a 5 year old Hyundai or Kia over an Aveo. I'd take a "mechanic's special" Escort off of Craigslist before I bought an Aveo or G3. I would paralyze myself from the waist down and use an electric wheelchair to get around before I would buy an Aveo or G3. I would pay for a chauffeured Town Car to take my loved ones anywhere they needed to go before I would allow one of them to drive an Aveo or G3.

They really are nice little cars, I would rather have one of them than alot of the cars you mentioned. Go with the G5, Roger I know you'll love it!

People in my state are very upset. That is all I am going to say. I am worried about more important things.

Good for you GMC stick to your guns and get what you want... Clearly that is a Pontiac, my vote in a G5 GT or see what you can pick up a G3 for, might be suprised the Aveo5 and G3 are decent little cars. I like the look of the Vibe on the outside but not the Toyota interior or powertrains... I voted G5 and I am with you I like the Pontiac styling better than Chevrolet wonder why I got a Torrent over an Equinox? GET THE PONTIAC. Don't let any of the Pontiac haters on here talk you out of it.

Pontiac has the highest fleet percentage of any GM brand. And they matter because, as I said, those are sales that aren't about the car. They're not sales to people who actually want it, or think its a good car, they're sales to companies who want to spend the least. With everyone saying, "Pontiac is super-popular, it needs to stay" I think it needs to be addressed that in the last several years, more than one-third of all Pontiacs sold haven't been to people who actually WANT them.

And yes, G6 sales are likely propped by being really, really cheap.

VOLUME IS VOLUME.

If Pontiac represents mainstream blue collar America, then it shouldn't really be a part of the B-P-G network (which should be a midmarket premium dealer network). If that is the case, then GM should plan on implementing the following strategy early next year:

1) Reduce Pontiac down to the G8 sedan, G6 coupe, and Solstice roadster/coupe and move the brand into Chevrolet dealerships. If the rumors are true about Holden developing lighter and smaller next gen Zeta based Commodore and Statesman sedans, then GM should make plans to build them at Oshawa and sell them in under the Pontiac brand in North America as the Grand Prix and Bonneville, respectively. All of Chevrolet's sedans would remain FWD, which fits the brand's mainstream mission. The Solstice would ride out the rest of its current model cycle with Pontiac and then be discontinued (I seriously doubt there will be a next gen version since the current version is not profitable and the government probably won't allow GM to spend development money on these automotive "toys"). If GM is planning on a smaller and lighter next gen Zeta based Camaro, I would move that next gen model to Pontiac as the Trans Am. I would develop a FWD midsize coupe on the SWB Epsilon II platform for Chevrolet to sell as the Monte Carlo; this car would essentially replace the G6 coupe and serve as competition for the Accord and Altima coupes.

2) Move the Vibe to Saturn and let it ride out the rest of its current model cycle with that brand. This would allow GM to discontinue importing the relatively expensive and unsuccessful current model Astra. Saturn will finish the rest of its term under the GM umbrella with the Aura sedan, Vibe 5-door, Vue CUV, and Sky roadster (I would discontinue the Outlook as soon as possible).

3) The current G3, G5, and G6 will be discontinued once Pontiac makes it move to Chevrolet dealerships.

4) With Pontiac gone, Buick/GMC would be free to pursue the midmarket premium segment. I would move up the intro of the Insignia based Buick Regal sedan to early next year since Buick/GMC will have no midsize sedan to sell once Pontiac and its G6 line makes its departure from the dealer network. When smaller next gen Opels are ready for the market, I would make plans to build and sell them in North America under the Buick brand; this will allow Buick/GMC to offer smaller premium products to complete the network's lineup.

5) I would make the Corvette its own brand and move it into Cadillac dealerships. The current Corvette's nearly $50,000 MSRP makes the car an inappropriate presence at Chevrolet dealerships. If people are going to spend that kind of money on a car they should be receiving the premium treatment which should be in place and practiced at all Cadillac dealerships (since Cadillac is supposed to be the corporation's flagship luxury brand).

This strategy would configure GM's remaining 6 brands (if Corvette became its own brand in North America) into distinct dealer networks that target specific demographics and price ranges:

* Chevrolet/Pontiac: Affordable/Mainstream. Chevrolet would be the mainstream volume anchor for the corporation with FWD cars and CUVs plus affordable trucks and SUVs. Pontiac would be the affordable RWD performance car sub-brand.

* Buick/GMC: Midmarket Premium. Buick would be the volume anchor of this premium network with a lineup of premium FWD cars and MPVs. GMC would offer premium CUVs, SUVs, and trucks.

* Cadillac/Corvette: Luxury/Specialty. Cadillac would carry RWD luxury cars and AWD CUVs. Corvette will continue to carry the Corvette.

Of course, all of this will work if and only if there really are next gen Zeta based products on the corporation's product development schedule. There's really no reason for Pontiac or its blue collar American image to be eliminated; however, it might be better if GM reassigned the sub-brand to a dealer network (Chevrolet) that targets that demographic.

You nailed it again.

That car is less than 50 miles from me... Don't give me any idea's...

Oddly enough, I haven't seen one; however, that may change with the winter season behind us. Perhaps a few cars were stored for the winter. Still, no G8s anywhere.

Oh really looks I have seen more around me. :AH-HA_wink: