gm4life

You're, quite literally, the only person on this board who has ever implied that they would be interested in spending actual currency on one of these.

And $6k under sticker isn't really helping GM.

Yeah I actually kind-of like them... But I prolly end up with a Cobalt, Impala, Grand Prix or something like that pre-owned. I don't think I could live with such a whimpy car. The guys on here kind of helped bring me along.

At least gm4life has his pick of colors and options.

I am actually excited about that, hopefully I can get one new for 10K and get another 1K off with my GM card. That would be great! I do understand the fact it doesn't fit in a performance line-up but if gas hits 3 or 4 again they might not seem like such a bad idea. Why did you feel the need to bring me into this honestly? I just hope the "large supply" means great prices!

Alienate Union workers all across America & lose a large segment of votes, or do whats right for GM...

Hmmmm....

If Obama actually does whats right for GM while compromising himself among union workers, i will be very impressed by his character.

He'll do whats right for the Unions, then GM comes back to the table a few years later. Hopefully with someone in office who isn't out to "save" the Unions. I hope the UAW gets real, and so do the execs who have made darn bad choices. Obama might be smart enough to realize he can't give into the UAW and have a sucessful GM... I hope so, and I would like to see that, the less goverment in this chapter 11 filing the better.

This brings me back to the 3 tier level that I still believe GM needs to move to, but also tends to build a case for why they should keep BPG since many people relate to the brand names. Professional Grade is GMC, Denali is GMC. Luxury above Chevy but below Caddy is Buick. Luxury Excitement above chevy is Pontiac.

I would think a valid business case could be made to explain this to the Obama auto group.

Exactly.

i want to see how the DI 3.6 (nee Camaro powertrain) implanted in the 010 G8 turns out. that, to me, will be a worthy blend of value and performance, if they hold the line on pricing for it. the g8 needs to be marketed more with the v6, even if the v8 is more desirable. right now, the g8 is only running on enthusiast fumes. when the economy picks up again, the g8 could be one of those cars that busts the sales doors open, if the pricing and product line is right.

what they should be doing with the g6 line, is cutting production and not fleeting out so many, then build more value v6 editions. or essentially the GXP spec cars with maybe a little less plush inside but at market reasonable prices. leave more of the 4 cylinder sales to malibu.

of course, i also think they should graft the pontiac nose on the aura body and make that the g6.

Some more really GOOD ideas.

If it comes to three nameplates and I am not talking divisions or sales channels, here folks names. Then I would make it simple seriously... Cadillac- Luxury. Chevrolet- Volume/Mainstream. Pontiac- Sporty/Performance. If it is three divisions or sales channels I would make it Chevrolet, Cadillac, BPG. The reason I came up with the three I did is because GMC is just a Chevy rebadge on all products, give Chevy a high end line-up like Denali aka LTZ. Buick is affordable luxury but all that can be had in a Pontiac or Chevrolet, or have the customer step into a low end Cadillac so whats the point of Buick? This is if IT IS ONLY a three nameplate company. I still say file chapter 11 get rid of the union and bad buisness practice, start fresh with Chevrolet, Cadillac and BPG. That is just my thinking.

Buick needs to be the Lexus fighter and Cadillac needs to become the standard of the world again. Leave the FWD lux to Buick and give Cadillac all RWD except for the SRX since even the Euro's have FWD based compact SUV's.

You know what I think you might just be right. Give Caddy RWD/AWD and give Buick the FWD Acura/Lexus stuff. That would work out well.

truth is when GM shuts down saturn and pontiac, all that volume will go out the door. volume and share. japan and korea will get those sales.

VW is the only german brand that sells affordable cars. No one is going to ditch pontiac and buy even a 1 series. they can't even keep the price of those reasonable.

Sad to say but true.

Toyota seriously.

If that is true, GM needs to make the case that BPG is for all intents and purposes one brand. So shedding Saturn, Saab, and Hummer, and eliminating model overlap in all channels should satisfy that requirement.

Right on! I hope this is what happens.

Well I am not saying its good news, but I could have heard worse. I would really like to see BPG work, maybe it will just be PG, GMC is has alot less value without a car line. So you can only get trucks at those dealers? What are folks suppose to do run over and get a Chevrolet. I can't find dealers the BPG ones being real happy with JUST a truck line, and no cars. I hope it is Cadillac, Chevrolet and BPG, that would work well. I DON'T want Obama running an auto company. Let him ruin Toyota. Because BPG is ONE sales channel!

Yeah another jack-ass that shouldn't be allowed to reproduce. Ruined a perfectly good car.

You lucky SOB's in Canada get everything. Well all these remarks and comments have me looking at Cobalt's and G5's used for about 8 grand with sticks. All coupes of course, I think I might have to steer clear of the Aveo5/G3 if they are as bad as so many say.

Seriously I would go Cobalt SS, no question, faster and its a coupe.

My 2008 LT Sedan in Slate Metallic (Below) is a nice solid car that with the right tires (OEMs are crap go for the Triple Treds from Goodyear) is just what DF said it was, a stable, quiet, easy riding, solid little car with lots of power for its size and not much different fuel economy from the Aveo. It's a no-brainer.

Yes, that is what I gather from riding in many of them. Still the Aveo5/G3 are very appealing.

Bingo. Its entirely conceivable in my mind that Buick be China-only. I wouldn't have said that 2 years ago but they've blurred those lines between Cadillac and Buick too much and the Cadillac brand has more equity both in North America and worldwide. A FWD SRX and the Escalade going Lambda seem to indicate to me that Cadillac models could easily replace the Buick ones currently sold here. Buick could be relegated to China as Holdens with some differentiation (China is a big market who's to say they can't have their OWN brand). Throw in a Epsilon II DTS and an Alpha STS and you've simply replaced the entire Buick lineup. I hate to say it as a BUICK FAN but I am a BUICK FAN second and a GM FAN first. I would be happy with almost any outcome as long as it involved Chevrolet and Cadillac surviving.

I agree.

there are probably the idiots in sales and marketing in GM that came up with some hairbrained scheme of trying to make Pontiac like a Scion. Small little asian type $h!boxes that are 'fast and furious'. Then there is the mullet contingent that really wouldn't mind the rise of the firechickens. And i think there are those out there that still think cladded monsters and sorority girl grand ams are the way to go.

Then you have the area where Pontiac needs to be. Cars like the G8. Great performers, great style, accessible price. No attempts at rice. No trying to be Gucci.

Honestly if GM would just invest in a new G6 we wouldn't need this conversation about pontiac. Pontiac COULD survive on 3 cars. A compact, midsize, and large. The large does not need to sell in huge volume. A roadster like the solstice would be nice too.

Buick could be like 6 models. Pontiac 4. GMC is trucks plus a couple crossovers. Is it really this hard? Remember, NOT EVERYONE WANTS A CHEVY. EVEN IF BPG is shut down THESE PEOPLE WILL NOT GO BUY ALL CHEVYS.

Another great post by reg!

In the end, you'll be happier with a Cobalt/G5. The fact that it gets better gas mileage with more usable power and better driving dynamics... It's a no brainer. The Aveo/G3 is just a $h!ty Daewoo.

I know it is a Daewoo, but how do you like your new Cobalt? Does it drive well?

Then if you're a Pontiac fan, stand up for Pontiac. Lately there have been plenty of opinions expressed here and many fly in the face of what GM has publicly stated as its plans.

GM is facing some formidable challeneges, and, ironically, they brought much of it upon themselves.

I, for one, have never, ever called for Buick's survival at the expense of Pontiac, nor insisted that only "such-and-such" brand should survive and, if not, then they all should go. Buick isn't the problem at GM; GM in and of itself may be, however.

Oh no I wasn't coming down on your just saying. I like Buick, prolly won't own one but like them. My aunt has a Lucerne CXL and that is a uber nice car, the new Enclave is great and so is the up coming LaX. BPG together is strong and is a nice alternative to Chevrolet, without one and I mean any brand it would be bad. I wouldn't want Buick to get the nix at the expense of Pontiac anyways.

Well an automatic is the only way to go for us (wife refuses/has no desire to learn and I have a medical condition with my left foot that prevents me from putting too much pressure on it <it sucks when I have to use the emergency brake on the AURA - foot pedal vs. the G6's brake handle>). Plus I'm the guy that likes to put the car in DRIVE and go from there

We did look at the ASTRAs last Saturday night. The dealership had an XE 5-door & an XR 3-door unlocked on the lot and the wife was still not liking the car (I think she doesn't like the styling for some reason, and I know the radio/hvac controls turn her off). I think the 3-door is hot and would definitely be up for a test-drive, but I'm holding off for now. Well see her reaction again when we visit the NYIAS.

I like the design of the G5 in GT form (I think the non-GT models look too plain). I liked the Cobalt when they came out, buit again I'm one of those guys that prefers Pontiacs over Chevies (just like GMC trucks too). Plus the fact I'd have an all-Pontiac garage, and hopefully things on the employment side get better after July 1 so that I could look into getting the '87 Grand Prix LE I've been wanting, would make for a nice photo layout for the Reader's Rides section of Pontiac Enthusiast magazine :AH-HA_wink: But I'm thinking way too far ahead at this time. I'll be patient and continue to wait until GMAC does something with November leases.

Roger it is clear you want a Pontiac, so get one. Even if it isn't perfect driving excitement! As for the Astra I like the look but I sat in one and wasn't real impressed, the center stack is odd. Hell I am even thinking about a G3 or Aveo5 new myself, 5spd of course!

Yes, yes it is.

If one goes, they all go.

Perhaps not at first, but very soon afterward.

BPG stands together, or dies.

Exactly.

Buick isn't responsible for your precious Pontiac ST being canceled. (If anyone, you should blame Chevy.)

I'd like to see everyone stop being so negative toward Buick

Welcome to Cheers and Gears if you think they are being mean to a damaged brand Buick, you should see what they say about Pontiac.

Sounds like GM is actually moving foward. As for BPG I figure they are safe for now. I think Pontiac will live even though the keep being placed in the "bad" group. Pontiac was GM's third best selling divison last month... Volume means something, I know it does. So Pontiac being put in the bad group is bull&#036;h&#33;! Time will tell.

Waste of a perfectly good Trans Am. I hope it was just a dressed up Firebird but I doubt it. Way to ruin an American classic! Whomever did this should not be allowed to reproduce! UCK!

Avoid the Aveo/G3 twins..they are very hit and miss...you might get a good one..or- you know...

Local dealership won't even sell me one..they go right to the Cobalt....

Really, so they have a good shipment and then a bad one eh? Well I really like the G3, alot actually the front is more refined and less "pigish" than the Aveo5, but I am open to a Cobalt Coupe or G5. It would be to and from work and around town car for our family/son. So something small and fuel efficent is okay, and the 5spd. is something he wants to learn better, he has done it some with a friend. I wouldn't mind brushing up on my skills either (for the Camaro SS, my son or I will get someday, hopefully he will get one, then I'll just snag it!) the wife is excited because she had a small hatch-back a Colt back in 80's. She actually taught me to drive a manual! I know a few people with Aveo's and they seem to really like them. I am not doing anything today or tomorrow if anyone see's a new stripper Cobalt XFE Coupe for under or about 10K let me know though. Most are more than I want to spend.

GMCT that '09 G5 GT is pure sex, also do consider a "more basic" Torrent my wife and I, hell the family loves ours. Decent fuel economy, good styling, nice MCE in the center stack and pretty good pep. I would say personally get the G5 GT or Torrent but I am considering a G3 for another car so that might be a more economical option as well. Get what you want but I suggest getting a Pontiac, at least while you can! As for the HHR, I like them on the inside and in SS trim, but I am luke-warm on them from the outside.