oldshurst442

 

Been through this 1000x ad naseum. The market long since spoke. You know it's a fact a big reason for the proliferation of f w d cars is their advantages in winter in weather challenged places. And the customer believes it, if you want to make a sale, you agree with the customer. And now those customers want AWD.

If anything this is what keeps the Mustangs and Camaros alive now. People don't buy those for utility. So they go into it knowing they are compromised for utility to begin with.

 

The truth is FWD is not better in the snow. 

The lie is that FWD is better and it was marketed like this back around 1980 to sell everyone on the smaller FWD cars. 

The rub many people believe it. 

The AWD is not as in demand as you may think. Just look at the sales of the Fusion as it is still below 20%. Added cost is a major factor and the fact only people on the fringe of the snow really demand it. Here in the snow belt not a common sight here as we know how to drive or have trucks. 

 

What keeps the Camaro alive is performance, Tradition and the lack of anything else with performance. Plus they are damn good cars to drive. 

 

The truth is...FWD IS BETTER IN SNOW...

This coming from a guy the drives FWD...PREFERS FWD in snow...and drove RWD cars n the winter....

True...they were 1980s RWD cars...but still...

RWD cars...get very SQUIRRELY  when taking turns...when pressing the gas hard when engaging a turn...

RWD cars dont have GRIP...

One has to feather the peddle...or wheel spin happens...and guess what?

To get out of an icy patch...wheel spin IS necessary...

And...to get out of a small snow filled groove and some ice is under neath...wheel spin is necessary....

But with a catch...you need weight at the back of the wheels that drive...

Yeah...I know the tricks of the trade...sand bags...

There is no need for sands bags in a FWD car...

you could argue this all day long...

I dont know where you live...

I live in Montreal, Quebec Canada.

Buffalo, New York gets more snow than we do.

Minneapolis Minn. gets more snow than we do...

OK...we still get a lot of snow...

We Montrealers are getting snow tomorrow actually...

There are hardly ANY RWD cars being sold in Montreal...

You think its because of marketing?

Think what you will, but I believe Montrealers prefer FWD cars because they are a tad more predictable and easier to get out of snow banks than RWD cars...

You know...it aint even about predictability...

It really is the ease of not getting stuck in snow...

I dont need snow tires with a FWD car...I do just fine with all seasons...

Yet with a RWD car, peoplesay that winter tires are a necessity...

I repeat...I PERSONALLY do just fine with ALL SEASONS with a FWD car...I NEVER get stuck!

Ive gotten stuck countless of times with my 1988 Pontiac Firebird, with my 1985 Olds Delta 88, and with my uncles 1988 fullsize Chevy Van...

I learned to drive in winter conditions with that 1988 Chevy Van.

 

The whole "worried about getting voted down" seems to be freaking you out a bit....thinking that might be why-or simply not understanding the passion behind....

 

Do I agree? To some points, yes.  And it wasn't just that that "drove" me away for a while....just happened to be one of many things that kept me away...

 

And why the hell do you find yourself crazy?  You sound alright to  me.  Unless the down votes happen to be driving you there.....

 

 

And yes-still not a fan of the voting system- causes people to get childlike among other things- I've seen it bring things down on other sites.....causes major fights between people! It can work, most times it does not, because people starting screwing around with it......

 

 

So if I do agree with you and some points, why should I let that sink in? That I don't understand? I've been here over 10 years bud....seen it all.

 

 I don't down vote, it wastes my time. If  get voted down, I could care less- because it means nothing to me in this stage of the game. I roll how I want, when I want.  Don't let it ruin yours...just be you.

 

 

I think if enough people would like it gone, Drew might get rid of it. But we as a group need to tell him that........

 

 

Also means that spark need to be as positive as it can be........

The whole "worried about getting voted down" seems to be freaking you out a bit....thinking that might be why-or simply not understanding the passion behind....

Not the down voting part...the lack of debate when down voting...

Unless of course people think Im trolling...but...I dont troll...

So...when I post an idea that you dont agree with...

Either

1. ignore it

2. respond to it

3. down vote it...but at least respond to it...

That is all Im asking.

Why?

Because Id like to know why I got down voted...

I like to debate...I also like for people to see where it is Im coming from...

and...if I dont like your reasoning, it gives ME the chance to down vote the down voter....

Do I agree? To some points, yes.  And it wasn't just that that "drove" me away for a while....just happened to be one of many things that kept me away...

Thanx for agreeing to some parts....at least I know I aint alone in this....coming from a seasoned veteran like yourself means a lot to me.

Because being treated like a "newbie" makes me feel like I aint wanted in here....which is fine...

I dont need to be in a place that doesnt want me.

I wont force myself unto you people.

It works for both of us this way...(and when I say "you people"...I mean the ENTIRE Cheers and Gears Community....if people dont want me here...Ill go...)

And why the hell do you find yourself crazy?  You sound alright to  me.  Unless the down votes happen to be driving you there.....

My post that got down voted was a "crazy" idea....but it was just an idea...

THAT is what got ME crazy because I STILL dont know why that post got down voted...and it wasnt that crazy of an idea to begin with...

Thanx for not seeing me as a nut job...but in real life...my mom's side of the family are ALL wack jobs....maybe I inherited some of that...LOL!!!

The down votes have not driven me mad....I dont get that many to begin with....

Its NOT about the down votes....its the lack of discussion when being down voted that gets my goat...

And yes-still not a fan of the voting system- causes people to get childlike among other things- I've seen it bring things down on other sites.....causes major fights between people! It can work, most times it does not, because people starting screwing around with it......

Well...yeah!

Like I said...that infamous post of mine...

It was an idea...not a trolly idea....nor a hatred filled idea...just an idea...

It got down voted...

Why?

I say Freedom of speech...

Freedom to down vote you say?

Sure...I say also!

But Ill say this....are we children to to say YUCK! I DONT LIKE THAT, down vote, spit out the food in our mouth, not try to taste it at all, and just leave it at that?

Expand your thoughts I say...

So that if you sound like an idiot...I could down vote you back!

Why?

It seems the down voters care about the reputation part more than anybody else...

They dont want to expose themselves.....

Im here...doing my freedom of speech thing...and I get down voted....Im EXPOSING myself....yet the down voter...DOES NOT!!!

Its CHILDISH to down vote...when NO DISCUSSION is being made...

So if I do agree with you and some points, why should I let that sink in? That I don't understand?

The last part...about letting it sink in....

I meant that in a general way....

For ANYBODY that reads that...for ANYBODY to let it sink in..

I DID NOT MEAN TO POINT THE FINGER AT YOU...

Im sorry I wasnt clear and Im sorry that you took it that way...

I've been here over 10 years bud....seen it all.

Im sure you have....I dont doubt that...

I respect you a lot.

In fact, I respect ALL of you here at Cheers and Gears...

You guys are a good bunch.

Locking horns is a good thing...

THAT is what DISCUSSIONS are ALL ABOUT....

Hence I WANT DISCUSSIONS.....you guys are a  smart bunch...I like to expand my horizons while trying to show you how it is in my neck of the woods...

PS: Im Greek.  Im Canadian.  From Quebec.

1. I dont think like any other Greek.

2. I dont think like any other Canadian.

3. I dont think like any other Greek Canadian.

4. I dont think like any other Quebecois.

5. I dont think like any other Greek Canadian from Quebec.

I have 4 identities. Greek. Canadian. Quebecois.  Greek Canadian from Quebec.

I think I have a very unique perspective on life....which includes cars...Id like to share these ideas...

I get frustrated when I get down voted...but not given the chance to explain.

I got laughed at in here...at cheersandgears because some of my posts are long winded...

I try to explain my thought process...

Damned if I do, damned if I dont...

Like I said....If I wasting my energy trying to have decent conversations with people in here...Ill leave...

I don't down vote, it wastes my time. If  get voted down, I could care less- because it means nothing to me in this stage of the game. I roll how I want, when I want.  Don't let it ruin yours...just be you.

This was answered some what on top of that quote...

I also like to roll the way I want to....its DISCOURAGING though to see down votes on some of my quirky thought processes without nary a back and forth exchange of ideas....

Ignore me...I wont go away..

I just continue to do what I do...

Down vote me though...and I KNOW you aint ignoring me...

DONT insult my intelligence by not responding....

I EXPECT dialogue when someone does not like my ideas...

You have enough energy to read my posts and to down vote it...you have the energy to reply...

YOU HATE MY THOUGHT PROCESSES...IGNORE ME COMPLETELY....I just wont go away though...

("You" as in a general "you"... not "you" as in only DAVE87RS)

Be curious to see if Tesla issues (certified) numbers of folk retracting their deposits when 3 and 4 years go by and

'No car for you!!'

Yeah...there will be retractions...

Sure...

But to assume that 3-4 years will go by for the people that ordered 2 days ago is just being pessimistic just for the sake of pessimism.

Let that story unfold first, then pounce on it...

Tesla has not missed the deadline yet...right?

Who knows, maybe they will deliver...

Orders are one notch away from meaningless…. if there's no product coming in a timely & volume manner.

The iron is HOT NOW… the car is -by company estimates- 2 years away!

But people are very well aware of the fact that the car is 2 years away...

They knew this before the lines opened up for bids.

They knew this when there were 116 000 orders.

They knew this when Musk said that the California market will be served first.

They knew this when the orders hit 200 000 units.

At this point, they now know that their Model 3 is probably 3 years away and not just 2.

Yet...an additional 80 000 units were placed on order with a $1000 deposit...and counting...

These people know...that a Chevy Bolt is coming less than a year away....yet these people dont care about the Chevy...they want a Tesla...

Im guessing the iron will stay hot for quite some time.

Again, that is if Tesla does not fumble the ball in some way...

Like I said, this is Tesla's game to lose....if they do mostly everything right, they got the game in the bag.

Lets not pretend like having 300 000 pre-orders is a bad thing...

HA!

I could fit many cars in this price range without breaking my head maxing out at $82 265

I saw that Tesla has increased their prices and discontinued some models due to better battery offerings...

ITS OK...Ill take...for Montreal, a P70D AWD that starts at $75 000 and Id option it out to $82 000...

If the government rebates are to be counted in, then an AWD P90 base model starting at $88 000 minus government subsidies with maybe some options would be suffice.

I think I like a white Tesla Model S with various black accents.

sorry for the size.

Let's say it reaches an even 500,000 pre-orders.

 

 

THEN WHAT??

Then Tesla better be able to deliver on that pro-order promise....that's what!!!!

But...you've got to admit....close to 300 000 pre-orders 3 days later is pretty impressive mojo that Tesla has got going on....

yes yes...continuing on with the 50 shades of gray theme...

Im on the fence with this....

On one hand, too many AMG variants cheapen out the effect...

On the other, if all these AMG variants are truly legit AMG cars....then I dont see the problem...

Chevrolet whored out the "SS" badge...

A Cobalt SS WAS worthy of the "SS" badging.

But was a Malibu SS?  Even if it was a MAXX?

I mean, what made the MAXX special?

Or even the W-Body Impala SS cars?

Both the 3.8 supercharged and the 5.3 liter V8 one...

If Mercedes-Benz just does an engine upgrade and slaps a badge on it, it aint exactly very special...

Both Impalas pictured....were just engine swaps...the V8 one was cool, but the Pontiac and Buick W-Body versions both had better suspension set-ups...

If M-B wants to cash in on the AMG badge without the merit, they will soon find out that consumers HATE being duped...

Just to steer this in another direction...

Rumor has it that Cadillac wants to build two models to rival Rolls Royce and Bentley....a sedan and a SUV.

They want to join the $250 000+  club.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28708/report-cadillac-is-planning-ultra-luxury-sedan-and-suv/

It may be a movement and a phenomenon...

And I want it to never end...

But Ill ground my enthusiasm as Peter De Lorenzo also does not like this type of hype and frenzy...

http://www.autoextremist.com/

Yet another doesnt think that Tesla will deliver the goods...

But he thinks they will eventually deliver the goods, just not on time.

The Model X was a disaster launch....

Hopefully the Model 3 does not suffer the same fate.

This is where Tesla's game is theirs to lose....

If they dont drop the ball with the Model 3 in any way, they are home free.

What Suave said...

Tesla...

They started out with a Lotus car.

"Hey babe, what is a nice girl like you doing in a place like this? Lets get out of here. Lets go to a place where we could feel each other out, shall we?"

Then foreplay happened...

Heavy petting....the Model S.

Cunnilingus and fellatio might have been stale...the Model X...but penetration is about to happen....

What sort of wild and crazy sex will we see with the Model 3?

The script has not been written yet, but it seems that the lady friend is wet all over, excited and ready for all kinds of sexual positions...doggy, boring missionary, etc...

Yeah...I tied that in with 50 shades of grey...

A book that closely relates to the 1980s  movie  9 1/2 weeks with luscious Kim Basinger and Mickey Rourke...

50 Shades of Grey...

The 1960s sexual revolution has come and gone in America...yet  waspy (white anglo saxon protestant) puritan bitches are just now discovering their deepest sexual fantasies....FINALLY!!!!!!!!!

Took them long enough....but then again...waspy white anglo puritan lovers are not exactly what dreams are made of...

Remember Balthy, Im Greek.

Aphrodite aint just the Goddess of Love and beauty...she has other titles too...

Eros...yeah little cutesy cupid...is the God of LUST!

Dionysus...God of Wine...and DEBAUCHERY...

Zeus...cant get more of a horn dog than him...

And THAT is why 50 shades of gGrey was popular...

But...that shyte is old news in Greece...in India (Kama Sutra)

French Canadians in Quebec...the French in general in France....50 Shades of Grey...or 9 1/2 weeks in the 1980s....barely had an erection...not even a semi...

Tesla...has created a product line that people all over the world are truly excited about.

The author of 50 Shades...just copy and pasted an Ancient Book from India where people in and around that region don't view sex as a sin (Muslim countries excluded)...unlike the good 'ol Bible Belt of America (which sometimes sex is view in the same way as some Muslim countires...) 

Look at Ted Cruze...and his supporters trying to "slut shame" The Donald's trophy wife...

This comparison Im gonna make...its not exactly the same thing...

In 1964...Ford sold 100 000 Mustangs the first 3 months...in 12 months Ford sold 400 000 Mustangs and in 18 months...1 000 000.

• Tesla does not have the car...its Vapor Ware...
• These are only pre-orders
• But...no other car since 1964 has garnered this kind of frenzy
• say what you will, its pretty impressive for Tesla to get this kinda thing going on at a time when there are many many many types of cars, brands, models and companies in 2016....as opposed to GM/FoMoCo/Mopar/Studebaker in 1964...and Studebaker was sputtering in 1964....

No matter how one feels about Tesla's future....we must be amazed at how in 2016...a car maker has managed to at least compete in the same manner how the Mustang sold in 1964...

Every known car related entity is still in awe with the 1964 sales success of the Mustang....

In my eyes....in 2016...the Model 3 has come close to that...

Full of win, that's Tesla.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2016/04/03/tesla-model-3-first-ride-yes-tesla-will-sell-a-ton/#4c4160af3893

From your link Suave...

“About 116,000 plug-in cars were sold in the U.S. in all of 2015. Tesla just pre-sold more than double that in 24 hrs,” said Max Zanan, CEO of IDDS Group, an automotive consulting firm, in an email sent to the media.

 

Yet somehow...somehow...

with new nay saying bullshyte....

116 000 EVs sold in total in the US for 2015...Nissan Leafs, Tesla Model S, Chevrolet Volts and Toyo Priuses, Ford Fusion hybrid EV etc....

116 000 EVs IN TOTAL...

The Chevrolet Bolt gets announced and...

The Tesla Model 3 gets announced...

Breaks the phoking internet...ALL NIGHT LONG...orders keep coming...

Only all night long???

The Tesla Model 3 orders is rocking around the phoking clock!!!!

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/opinion/bloomberg/article/musks-tesla-is-a-niche-car-not-a-revolution-edward-niedermeyer

By Edward Neidermeyer

The dude that wrote the article here: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/31/tesla-s-model-3-could-destroy-elon-musk-s-company.html?via=desktop&source=email

What the link that I provided says and was written in March of 2014....2 years ago...

HA! HA! HA!

When Edward wrote his latest anti-Tesla article...because there are plenty...

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-11/tesla-will-get-trampled-by-the-mass-market

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/31/tesla-s-model-3-could-destroy-elon-musk-s-company.html

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/opinion/bloomberg/article/musks-tesla-is-a-niche-car-not-a-revolution-edward-niedermeyer

http://www.therecord.com/news-story/5205029-the-competition-is-revving-up-against-tesla/

http://www.business-standard.com/article/opinion/edward-niedermeyer-toyota-bets-1-billion-that-tesla-is-speeding-115110800747_1.html

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/02/qotd-toyota-not-tesla-as-a-force-of-disruption/#more-757641  

When he wrote that article...he says that Tesla had 115 000 orders...

Musk described the vehicle at its unveiling in California on Thursday night as “the final step in the master plan, which is a mass-market, affordable car.” Already, 115,000 people have plunked down $1,000 deposits to order the car two years before it’s available.

 

 

HA! HA! HA!

Th Model 3 is up to 200 000 orders now...

And Toyota....with all that Prius automobile disruption that Ed wants to call it...has scaled down Prius projects...

Yeah...

Another dumb ass analyst "professional" like that Automobile styling "professional" named Cumbersome has an opinion...

That last part...about everybody else's opinion stinking up the place....

He could be right, he could be wrong...

But...he has been wrong with his other opinion based articles...more like blogs...

Yeah...I dont buy what he is shoveling...

 

But the day will come when a gas engine car is more expensive and slower than the electric car.  Might take 10-15 years, but it will happen.

But will they sell?

EV sales are not even half of 1 percent.

 

Well....like SMK said, the day will come when all the intangibles for EVs  will be at the very least equal but most probably be superior in EVERY metric as compared to petrol powered cars.

Intangibles such as range, charging infrastructure, maintenance...

Range:

Battery range for EVs will equal gas tanks in car....the day will come when 300-350 miles of range will be achieved in EV powered SUVs....in the extreme cold and heat...eliminating this huge obstacle..its just around the corner actually.

Infrastructure:

More and more charge stations are being put up....but the kicker is this: charging your EV AT HOME is PRICELESS to achieve 300-350 miles in extreme cold and heat with the AC or heat blasting with the radio and rear window defrost on MAX...

Even if supercharging does NOT improve and it stays at 20 minutes for 80-85% charge....charging the EV less on the road because of extended range becomes a moot point....and its done at home....most of the time...that equals AWESOME.

No need to stop at the gas station every 3-4-5 days...for normal every day commutes.

Maintenance: 

This is already an advantage.

Brakes and suspension and battery maintenance and tire wear and tear and steering components and CV Boots and Tie Rods and wiper blades needing replacement and windshield cracks are still gonna be necessary to be checked on and maintained and fixed and replaced....but...

NO LIQUIDS to be verified and topped off and replaced....therefore no wear and tear on mechanicals  that swim in that shyte....and its usually that shyte that is the most sensitive....(in pot hole countries....suspension bits and pieces are also high alert items).

EV motors have waaaaaaaaaaaay less moving parts and have ALWAYS been a waaaaaaaaaaaay more reliable source of mechanical energy.

So....as time goes by....more and more people WILL adapt and adopt....

Granted...in some parts of the continent faster than others....

Quebec, British Columbia, California, Washington....I think that these folks are already there....no need to wait 10-15 years like SMK said.

I may nix the Dodge Polara cop car for that Cadillac....

True dat SMK...end of an era...plus convertible, I did not have a convertible initially.

Very elegant those 1930s Mercedes Benzes were...I too like them.

I denounce them when I discuss them in internet forums....because Hitler and Nazis and a little thing called WW2....but I very much like them.

Cadillac was down probably because of the SRX production winding down.

 

Escalade sales have also kinda levelled off. The sedans are arguably doing much better compared to the losses elsewhere in the industry. I think BMW has finally confused its sedan buyers with too many similar products - over segmenting. Like really, if the 4 Series is the better looker of the 3 Series chassis based car - why not just make the 4 Series the 3 Series? Simply things like that. Also, I think C-Class and whole slew of competitors are giving it to BMW.

 

I think Cadillac being reorganized - this is to be expected even now. Their new communications are all about a completely different kind of brand identity they want to project and the awareness of the brand they are striving to build is completely different. 

 

Lincoln is doing something very smart. They are catering to buyers who are no longer served by Lexus, Cadillac and everyone else going sporty. I think Buick also gains a lot from that. 

 

And the kinds of vehicles that Lincoln is selling are very viable. Commonality works. It keeps the RX and ES going. Cadillac's biggest sellers will always be the Escalade and SRX/XT5. 

 

And I think Cadillac will try to convert the XTS buyers to CT6. It should work out well. But still. The XTS I think did far better than Cadillac could have imagined. Combine those and CTS sales and you've got a lot a good combo of people buying the sports luxury sedan and the luxury cruiser sedan.

Yeah...that about sums it up, Suave...

 I just wanted to do the Cadillac -% sales versus Lincoln +% sales and tying it up neatly with that "dare greatly" thing for the cheap, gratuitous  laughs...

- Cadillac - Down 5.1% (13,053 Vehicles Sold This Month, 35,633 Vehicles Sold So Far This Year)

- Lincoln - Up 11.4% (9,698 Vehicles Sold This Month, 24,905 Vehicles Sold So Far This Year)

Go ahead...and start laughing at Lincoln...I dare you!

I dare you GREATLY!!!!

Ghosts I tell ya. I see some ghosts. We're getting haunted.

Sorry...I just cant do the Summer of 2016 version...its got to be the original...

"We came, we saw, we kicked its ASS!!!"

Burt Reynolds?

 

Why?!!!

A Black and Gold trimmed 1977 Trans Am with T-Tops and an 18 Wheeler ripped up a storm in the summer of 1977 jumping bridges and delivering Coors beer.

During that summer, a young Luke Skywalker was the hero up in space, but here on Earth, 'twas Burt Reynolds.

The bad guy in space might have been dressed in black and became an icon, but that black Trans Am driven by Burt also is an icon....and I think, when a black and gold Trans Am is being made, Burt  HAS to be part of the package....he made the car be a "Black Trans Am"....There are as many scenes that show the Trans Am do its thing as there are of Burt driving it and doing his 1970s macho shtick...1970s male porno star mustache included...

 

It is odd they 'unveiled' something based on the old 5th gen...a bit out of date since the 6th gen has been out a while.

My understanding is that with this being a limited production run signed by Burt Reynolds that they probably already have all the gen 5 cameros that will be built and this is why it is not on the 6th gen.

 

Also...remember, this is not General Motors...

This is Trans Am Depot....which I gather just got the green light and license from General Motors to use the name Trans Am, because before, they were not ery vocal in calling them Trans Ams....

So....Trans Am Depot probably has not bought Alpha Camaros...and probably has NOT molded new Trans Am stuff to fit the smaller Alpha Camaro....

It takes time and more money to do this....but the molding for the Zeta Camaro has been made 4-5 years ago....

They also have moldings for GTO look-a-likes...all for the....Zeta Camaro....

Will Trans Am Depot actually invest in new moldings for the Alpha Camaro is the question rather than the disbelief...

The shape is a bit previous gen Mazda 3 and the headlights a bit like an Infiniti G37.  But overall it has the Tesla look after seeing the offical photos.  The Specs are awesome though.  $35,000 before tax credit, 215 mile range, 0-60 in under 6 seconds and autopilot is standard.  The upgraded model is supposed to do 0-60 in under 4 seconds, that is Corvette fast, but cheaper than a Corvette and a sedan with space and hardly any maintenance costs.

 

This car could be the tipping point.  Right now electric cars like the Leaf are just too costly, too slow, too low a range, etc.  They can't compete with a gas powered car.  But the day will come when a gas engine car is more expensive and slower than the electric car.  Might take 10-15 years, but it will happen.

Yeah...SMK...I too see the previous Mazda 3 from the top side silhouette.

I also see Tesla's own Model X in that silhouette.

I need time to get used to that face without a grill. But one could personalize that area very easily....its an empty canvas space with lots of free real estate that one could use his imagination and just....personalize...

Besides...that is not the final product...maybe Tesla will put some sort of signature styling thing on it...like how the Model X is like rather than the Model S.

I....want to see the real final product for me to announce like or dislike...

I HATE the Model X's silhouette, but the Model 3 is pleasant enough.

I may tire really quickly of the sagging ass/crouching dog taking a pee stance of the rear end...but then again, many cars use that styling today....so I may eventually end up liking it due to the fact that many are doing that style...

Im just baffled because it looks like Tesla has successfully copied Apple's playbook of fanatical sales...

And THIS is why I think Tesla is here to stay for the long haul.

Unless of course they fumble the ball....

I see parallels with Musk to Steve Jobs....

Many disliked Jobs also...within the company even....and he was even "fired" from Apple...only to come back a start a new revolution called the iPod original and iPhone...and the next gen iPod and iPad....

Nothing that Apple did with Jobs was a failure in the market place...

Fad you say?

Well, from having no experience in cell phones...it did not take long for Job's Apple to be the industry leader in selling smart phones....

Hate Musk and think he is a detriment to Tesla....

Tesla has got it going on right now and GM better be afraid....because I dont thing the Bolt will be much of a threat to the Model 3....

These pre-orders are a frenzy....we have seen this before.....I mentioned the iPhone.....

Nokia is no longer what it used to be...

Blackberry is but a spot...

The Fremont plant....

The next step for the nay sayers,I bet you, is gonna question how will Tesla keep up with these orders?

Because now we see that Tesla is the real deal....

Let us not forget that the Fremont plant is the former NUMMI plant...I think it has enough capacity to build these...

Im happy with this frenzy...

Yes...yes...Apple fanatics can be crazy...and I see the same with Tesla fanatics....

But really, is that any different from  Mustang guys?

Or Camaro guys?

Or Vette guys?

Or even BMW M3 guys?

It takes fanaticism to make for a more enjoyable world to live in.

 

take a deep breath and relax.  You are reading waaaay too much into the concept of upvoting/downvoting.  As I said, it works fine on other sites without noticable issues.  Have a good evening.

 

 

I do agree with this here.....don't go crazy man.....

 

 

That said, I've grown quite tired of the system myself, as it tends to bring the children out of people. I've always loved a good debate, regardless of how in-left-field it was.  Some stuff like that here kinda drove me a away for a a little while back.....

 

That is the advice ya'll give...

yet...you yourself said that stuff like that drove you away for a bit..

After reading Hyper's response back to me regarding that bad idea post...I as far as retreated my thought process on my "crazy idea"....

And...more crazy ideas have come up in that thread....

In other words, I sparked up a conversation....

However, no additional down votes were made to any body else...other than to myself....

And the thing is. I could play devil's advocate and still defend my "crazy idea"...yet I dont feel like it because some of us would rather be like babies and just down vote rather than have a conversation....

Hyper had a conversation with me...yet people I have a sneaky suspicion that down voted me....are telling me to relax...chill out...

You think....that this type of behavior....to down vote somebody...without discussion....will spark interest from the person that got down voted to continue posting in that thread?

You think....that this type of behavior....to down vote somebody...without discussion....will spark interest from the person that got down voted to continue posting at all?

You know...I say lots of crazy things...to spark conversation....and all Im gonna get is a down vote...you think that makes me want to continue to speak in here?

You think that promotes interest in me to contribute?

Let that sink in for a awhile...then remember that you also took a vacation from in here from this....and then come and tell me to relax when alls Im doing is voicing a concern.....

PS:

THIS IS WHERE I DESERVE A DOWN VOTE....

NO EXPLANATION OR DISCUSSION NEEDED!!!!

Its an epic  phoquiking  fail is what it is....LOL!!!!

It is?

I got fooled then. Sorry.

I was told by one of my employees that that pic was the Model 3.

I then looked at my partner's Model S and saw it was different and so I went with it..

I was looking at the fogs...they are different???!!!

Upon further inspection....I will apologize for the idiocy I just did...

Fusion is black.

Acura TL is charcoal.

The Fusion's dent is at the right rear quarter panel where the sheetmetal starts to dimple to bulge out to form the rear wheel well. Its camouflaged well.

The Acura's dent is exactly in the middle of the back end. The back end forms a peak between the license plate and the trunk.  And exactly in the middle of that peak is a deep enough dimple. Its pretty high so I dont know who or what the phoque bumped  me, but the dimple looks like its part of the car's design..LOL!!!