oldshurst442

Whatever Casa...

Bottom line is:

Its an opinion based thread.

To boot, you even admitted that the ATS is conservatively styled.

My concern was exactly that.

What Cadillac means to me?

Cadillac is bigger than life and their cars no matter what segment they reside in should reflect all aspects of that.

Ill give you the ATS-V....but its still boy racer.

Sorry dude, but the stylists of the ATS-V had the 1989 W-Body Pontiac GP Turbo and consequent GT and GTPs in mind when they did the ATS-V.

Functional or not....still boy racer...

Deny, ignore and suppress....

This was a BIGGER shock to me than anybody else that died...

Prince...dead at the age of 57 today.....

Id post some his songs but he wasnt too big on youtube...

Later, Ill try to find some songs....or Ill just state what songs I liked from him.

Rest in Peace Prince.

You are definitely a musical icon.

I found what I was looking for. It seems like an excellent interior with this Black Label theme:

 

 

Did you climb the highest mountains or run through the fields?

Have you ran and crawled and scaled city walls just to find that youtube pic?

Because Bono did all that...and he STILL hasnt found what he's looking for.

 

 

"U talked to actual owners who gave U that sound and positive resume..yet still have issue with the product. Makes zero sense."

 

 

 

 

I never had any issues with the product...nor the styling.

The presence, the feel...the attitude of the ATS, in MY EYES is all wrong...

 

 

So be it.. The Attitude of the ATS is to take on the best from Europe. It does. Very well in attitude, presence and feel. It lacks the variety that those Europeans do thus sales will be low., It lacks their marketing.. thus sales will be low. It is also first generation. The fact that it doesn't jibe with your idea of what U believe Cadillac should be speaks volumes as to what they are doing right in terms of attracting the new customers to the brand

 

 

Just how you would not buy a Cadillac Brougham of 1996 vintage, and noit until you were 60 years old...because I, at 43 years of age, would have considered a Brouhmam in 2016...

 

Perhaps because I've driven and been in both.. thru out the years. The old Cadillacs are cool for those who want them, but going forward.. FORWARD.. Cadillac needs to stay this course. To think that they were not gonna get people like yourself who hated the NEW Cadillac would have been ridiculous. Reminds me of people who say they prefer the Vinyl LPs over the CD or digital music. Its nostalgia driven that is all. 

 

 

 

The question I asked is how does one feel about Cadillac...

 

I don't want Cadillac to be producing land yachts...but what do you think a Ciel is?

Or an Escalade for that matter...

 

(You've got to be kidding me if you think an Escalade is all that different from a 1996 Brougham...a slight suspension tuning to be less floaty for modern day Cadillac drivers is that difference...because its still a  BOF vehicle...an SUV...Im sure a Brougham could have had the same suspension and steering feel done to it with the same brakes to be a more modern land yacht...)

 

The Escalade, and other SUVS like Range Rover for years.. was branded as not worthy of Luxury simply because they were trucks or not traditional luxury vehicles (read cars). The Escalade, while certainly being big and bold is big and bold no differently than any other 5800lbs 204 inch (Length) and 74 inch (height) vehicle would be...  As to FEEL.. yeah a ride, drive, or even better.. OWNING of one certainly feels special. My Dad also owns a previous gen Escalade we bought him.. my mom an SRX.. both say that they love their vehicles and both say they exude the special feeling they had about Cadillac when they.. THEY.. they were growing up. That's high praise considering they grew up in the 50s and 60s. When I got into my last 3 Caddys.. I always felt like I was equal of better than any BMW or Benz rolling near. Not one time did I not stop somewhere and even your vaulted S-Class owner not tell me how gorgeous and nice.. outta kno where mind U.. my STS or CTS was at the time. This current CTS gets unbelievable props. I feel like I'm pushing a Ferrari more than any luxury sedan, by the way people react to it. Just yesterday during dinner I could see my Rose parked out in from the Restaurant as a guy in his 20s literally tripped up over the curb staring and pointing showing his girlfriend how slick Rose was. She said to him.. "if U had a car like that.. we'd have to break-up, cause of all the THOTS U'd be meeting" 

 

 

I like the way the ATS drives...its the lack of presence its got on the road that is a concern to me...

Ive gotten over the fact that Cadillac compacts are reality, but when a Honda Civic has more teeth and ballz to its look and feel, there is a problem.

 

Casa, the ATS, while arts and science is clearly visible, the ATS is no more exciting than the BMW and Audi cars you whine about...

ATS V aside....which has boy racer looks, is clearly lacking road presence.

 

And a price tag that Chevrolet keeps bouncing up on...

 

Tell that same thing to the 3Series.. and C-Class.. I keep tell y'all that conservatism is the way of the entry segment. The ATS tends to be conservative til U hit the Premium model.. then it shines. U've obviously never seen an ATS-V on the road or U would definitely not be saying something as crazy as it lacks road presence. Your pricing issues are also insane as every car can easily come up on luxury pricing when tarted up. A Chevy Impala also knocks on the Audi A6 Price as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tell that same thing to the 3Series.. and C-Class.. I keep tell y'all that conservatism is the way of the entry segment. The ATS tends to be conservative til U hit the Premium model.. then it shines. U've obviously never seen an ATS-V on the road or U would definitely not be saying something as crazy as it lacks road presence. Your pricing issues are also insane as every car can easily come up on luxury pricing when tarted up. A Chevy Impala also knocks on the Audi A6 Price as well. 

 

 

Ah...Casa, but you finally saw what Im seeing with the ATS...(non ATS-V...we will get to that V later)

"The ATS tends to be conservative"

Yes....it seems like the ATS is just another compact car in a sea of compacts...with a price tag that a Ford Fusion Titanium could reach....

My opening words to this thread..yet I chose a Camaro, Impala and Malibu to drive my thought process home...

And then I thought about it some more and I  said that Cadillacs should be larger than life regardless if compact or fullsized or SUV...

Then you went all pissy to finally admit the ATS is styled conservatively...

The CTS coupe of a couple years ago was FUGLY, it did not sell NOT because it pushed the boundaries too far, its because the man with the ugly stick touched it.

I heard a rumour that the ATS, current CTS and CT6 lack Cadillac machismo is because of the Chinese market. That is for another conversation...

OK...about the ATS-V....I never said it lacked presence...I said it had it...but with boy racer styling...

Is Cadillac chasing the Fast and the Furious crowd with that?

Because I, would never aspire to own a "V" series car, just because of the boy racer aspect.

Its cool that you feel 60 years old in your father's Brougham, many felt that way between the years 1986-2010. Yeah..1986, not the 1990s that you are trying to say...Cadillac was starting to roll downhill from them....and BMW/Audi was going up...._{(if the unintended acceleration shyte did not hit Audi then, Audi would hae been BIGGER than BMW in the 1990s...)}but if I was to drive YOUR CTS-V, I wouldnt feel comfortable  in it as I wouldnt want people to say Im hitting a mid-life crisis....

Boy Racer....that is for Pontiacs....

Beautiful... Absolutely GORGEOUS car...

But...I see the same thing in this automobile...without the ribbed sides...

Vented hoods...functional or not...same shyte...

Air thingys on the bottom of both cars...functional or not...same shyte...

To boot, the Pontiac GP has CLASSIER wheels...

If the goal is for affluent ATS-V buyers in their 40s,50s, and possibly 60s to relieve their go go go 20s...then mission accomplished...

But...somehow, I dont think that is Cadillac's mission. Cadillac's mission was to attract the younger buyers...yes...but I dont think it was to throw them on under the Fast and Furious bus...

The ELR is a compact that embodied that Cadillac presence WITHOUT the boy racer shyte...

"U talked to actual owners who gave U that sound and positive resume..yet still have issue with the product. Makes zero sense."

 

 

I never had any issues with the product...nor the styling.

The presence, the feel...the attitude of the ATS, in MY EYES is all wrong...

Just how you would not buy a Cadillac Brougham of 1996 vintage, and noit until you were 60 years old...because I, at 43 years of age, would have considered a Brouhmam in 2016...

The question I asked is how does one feel about Cadillac...

I don't want Cadillac to be producing land yachts...but what do you think a Ciel is?

Or an Escalade for that matter...

(You've got to be kidding me if you think an Escalade is all that different from a 1996 Brougham...a slight suspension tuning to be less floaty for modern day Cadillac drivers is that difference...because its still a  BOF vehicle...an SUV...Im sure a Brougham could have had the same suspension and steering feel done to it with the same brakes to be a more modern land yacht...)

I like the way the ATS drives...its the lack of presence its got on the road that is a concern to me...

Ive gotten over the fact that Cadillac compacts are reality, but when a Honda Civic has more teeth and ballz to its look and feel, there is a problem.

Casa, the ATS, while arts and science is clearly visible, the ATS is no more exciting than the BMW and Audi cars you whine about...

ATS V aside....which has boy racer looks, is clearly lacking road presence.

And a price tag that Chevrolet keeps bouncing up on...

ATS V...

Boy racer looks.

That is a very cheap way to establish road presence.

That was Pontiac's way, it worked for Pontiac...well...Pontiac is no longer...

But whatever...I like this thread because I got many people's point of view of Cadillac for 2016...I wanted to know if I was alone in these thoughts of mine...

and I would STILL  like others to join in...

Plenty of Cheers and Gears folk that have not chimed in.

PS...a big grille alone does not equate to being bold...

Its got to be "more than a sum of its parts" type deal...

I think Ive figured out what that certain Cadillac feel is.

Cadillacs were always larger than life.

That does not mean Cadillac cars have to be large cars. Just larger than life cars.

A sub ATS car should be outta this world stupendous. Whatever that may mean.

It should NOT be just another compact car merrily rolling along.

It COULD be a compact car, but it should give the middle finger to anybody that looks at it funny!!!

The CTS lacks a certain Cadillac quality (in my eyes).

The V is superbly done. Just a tad too boy racer, but I could live with that.

The CT6 also lacks a certain Cadillac quality that I cant put my finger on.

Yeah, they both have that unmistaken Cadillac look, they lack that Cadillac feel.

Even a 1990 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance had that Cadillac feel.

The FWD STS cars had that certain je ne sais quoi about it.

Hell, a DTS had that Cadillac feel.

Presence.

The CTS-V has got it though. The look may be a tad too boy racer, but the Cadillac substance is there.

The Escalade is just...perfect.

But Hyper said something that maybe I too, should just relax and enjoy the up coming ride that JDN has in store for us.

Cadillac aint just about North America anymore.

My personal proof is that in Quebec, small car capital in North America, the ATS is a runaway success.

And I have talked to some of my clients that own an ATS...

They love the ride.

They love the handling.

They love the quality.

They think an ATS IS a car worth the Cadillac badge. Even with just the 2.0T car.

I think Im still stuck in an era when Cadillac was king and its hard for me to continue to wait for the second coming...

However...Frisky is right though.

Many people around the world are also awaiting for the "REAL" Cadillac to emerge.

The Ciel was well received across the planet.

A movie wanted that concept car soooo badly it actually made Cadillac give it to them.

It was a perfect car casting....too bad the Ciel was not real.

The Cien was also a concept car that made the movies.

That too, had Cadillac presence and fit the casting role perfectly...

And it was a mid-engine exotic back when Cadillac was anything but sporty. And the Cien did a wonderful job of making a futuristic world believe that Cadillac is a maker of high performance mid-engined sports cars!!!!

All three responses and Im on the same page with all of them.

With the exception of JDN's dismissal regarding sub ATS cars.

I think sub-ATS cars will be wildly successful. In Quebec, the ATS is a runaway success.  The 2.0T AWD is by far the best seller in the Cadillac sedan category. A trim that has a price tag of about $46 000-$48 000 CDN...In Quebec, the ATS might even be Cadillac's sales leader besting out another sales hit in the SRX.

But that is why I posted this....

As nice of a car the ATS is in ride, handling, looks....the price tag on it makes me question the Cadillac prestige....a sub ATS car even more.

Ive given hell to BMW and Audi and Mercedes Benz for this entry level luxury bullshyte....and yet Cadillac is the one to have tried their hand in it first with the Cimarron, and while that was a failure, the ATS is not.....

This is thread is NOT about why the Cimarron failed and why the ATS looks like to be a success (at least in Quebec), this thread is about how one feels about Cadillac and their place in history and their place today in 2016....

Cadillac was ALWAYS about ultra luxury.

Cadillac was ALWAYS about wanting MORE in your automobile. (all the luxury and excess and hoopla surrounding that included)

Cadillac was ALWAYS about telling people you have arrived when you pulled up and told people you did not give a shyte about anything and at the same time a Cadillac was about telling people you are stinking rich and you dont care who knows it! In fact, you want people to know you are rich that is why you drive a Cadillac!

I feel the ATS, while it may achieve sales, does not convey ANY of those messages.

The Escalade does.

The SRX also.

The CT6 is trying to convey that message.

The poolside commercial conveys that message.

The ATS just gives me vibes of yet another compact car trying to survive to jungle in a sea of lion SUVs out to pounce on it and eat it.

Hell, an equally priced CHEVROLET IMPALA LTZ @ $45 000 CDN kinda gives me some of that Cadillac criteria I mentioned above...

It aint even about the price tag.

Its about presence. And the lack the ATS has on the road.

It looks purty....but good looks is not enough.

It lacks something......it lacks this certain ingredient that makes a Cadillac a Cadillac.

The Escalade has that in droves.

The Ciel, the El Miraj drowned it it.

Even the SRX had that certain Cadillac flair.

The CTS and the CT6 almost have it.

What is it?

I have no idea what it is...but when I look at the models I named, I certainly know as much to identify which models have Cadillac mojo and which models desperately need it!

Driving home today, while passing by the friendly GM dealership in my neighborhood..where they also sell Cadillacs..this song came up on the radio  (Yeah..no joke impeccable timing!!!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9zzqNjt6e4

Seeing several 2015 Cadillac ATSs on the lot on a clearance sale got me thinking...

1. Does a $38 000-$43 000 CDN Cadillac car equal a Cadillac?

Especially when on the same lot resides a 2016 $60 000 Chevrolet Camaro SS (same platform for phoque's sake), a 2015 $45 000 Chevrolet Impala LTZ and a 2016 38 000 Chevrolet Malibu Premier...

2. The Cadillac ATS, while a beautiful car, to me, does not convince me its a "Slick Black Cadillac".

What I mean by that, a Cadillac ATS does not inspire me to sing out loud about Sliiiiiick Blaaaaaaaaaack Caaaaadillaac with solid gold hubcaps....making me feel like a king!

And JDN wants to do sub ATS cars...

What Cadillac means to me?

A big, brash rock-n-roll machine that tells the world Ive made it!

A long, slick, arrogant, dick measuring automobile that lets the world know that Oldshurst442 has arrived and the party could commence!

THAT is what Cadillac means to me.

The ATS does not say that at all...that was the vibe I got today....

What does Cadillac mean to you?

Every time I see something about Montreal anywhere where big media is involved, I get all choked up inside.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/news/a28874/theres-a-lamborghini-diablo-with-one-mile/

Road and Track article about a Lambo Diablo with 1 mile on the odometer is on sale at Lamborghini Montreal for half a million.

Cool about the car.

Even cooler that its in Montreal.

At least for me....

Would a 4-door Avista make a good Regal? Or could it be a Park Avenue instead?

I think it should be called Wildcat.

I think the Avista captures the Wildcat's spirit.

I think the Regal should stay the way it is...

I think the name Park Avenue should retire from Buick's nomenclature.

Why?

1. Old Skool name. I love it, but all the pre- and post-bankrupt North American Buick wildly successful nameplates have NEW names.

Encore, Enclave, Verano.

The Lacrosse nameplate is somewhat a success, and a NEW name.

The only one that struggles to sell is the Regal....yup....old name.

So...I think a good Park Avenue replacement name would be Avenir...

Going back to the Wildcat...on second thought, maybe Avista should remain as a name should Buick/GM somehow all of a sudden green light the Avista.

2. Cadillac is in New York City now...Cadillac is the one to have a New York Groove. Other GM brands should refrain from any New York delusions of grandeur.

Well, its understated luxury.  Kinda like that 1970 Continental.  I like that.

I like over the top luxury too. Like in those old Cadillacs from the 70s. And from that  Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance,

Its a nice place to be in....and with that Black Label trim where you get to choose your own style....Id say its a very pleasant place to be in.

That is a niiiiiice car....

Oh....Im talking about the grey Fusion in the backround...its nice because I own one....

PS: That Lexus interior seems more quiet Luxury than the Lincoln does.

Dont get me wrong, I like the Continental interior too, because it does remind me of a Fusion interior...a very nice and spruced up Fusion interior, but the Lexus I think, does what Lincoln wants to do with quiet luxury a tad better....

PS: I aint being sarcastic, nor trolly. I am being genuine.

I like that grey Fusion....that is why y wife bought one for herself, because we both fell in love with it. Black though...because black is bad ass.

I really do think Lexus does quiet luxury better than Lincoln wants to do....

And yes, that interior does remind me of a Fusion interior....the dash part extending to the upper window part where the speakers are and the headlight switch gear...not a bad thing.....unless you feel like its a bad thing, therefore that is on you, and not on me....

All Electric. All Aboard. Seeing the USA in my Chevrolet while Finding New Roads because...the Heartbeat of America IS today's Chevrolet.

 

Interesting how you can find testing on Nuremberg of the S class, C class and of course AMG, but nothing on the E class, or any other. 

 

 

The E-Class is the Taxi-cab of Europe... People/Photographers probably aren't interested. I kno I'm not. f@#k Mercedes

 

The whole Fleet of them:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I searched for a late model Cadillac taxi and cannot find one in its home market. Now Smk will tell us that a REAL luxury car maker is one that has a fleet of taxis waiting for U down on the street

 

Last one is Greek Taxi.

OPA!

OH...DONT HATE ME FOR THIS...IM JUST PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE!!!!

The reason why you wont find Cadillac taxis, is because they arent really that tough to take the beating of the rigors of taxi work....but an E Class does it with ease!

Greek Taxi story: http://www.leftlanenews.com/greek-taxi-driver-hits-1-million-kilometers-with-2003-mercedes-e-class.html

Im really with Casa on this....

The E Class is just a German Bel Air/Impala/Caprice/Impala SS

I just posted that link to promote anything Greek...I did NOT do it to promote the E-Class...

OPA!!!

Now...lets break some plates!

Hyper...you broke my heart with that tid bit of information...

Im devastated. My innocence has been violated.

Its like finding out there is no Santa Clause.

Be as it may, Its still the great American V8 that is heard in that soundtrack.

Before or after Charlie Sheen?

Because if its after Charlie Sheen, maybe he should check himself out....

And....that man has bed some very fine women in his lifetime...

I salute him. (Prince that is because Charlie...well...lets leave it at that.)

The CT6 is as good as it gets for American luxury, currently.

But don't tell me you don't look at that pic I posted and die a little inside.

Well...not as much as when I woke up a couple of days ago and logged in to the Bruins website...

http://bruins.nhl.com/club/standings.htm?type=CON

that one was more like this:

but yeah...

CLAR - Cluster Architecture

 

When I read that.....only one thing came to my mind...

Can you folk guess what that might have been?

Because I bought the DVD last week and we watched it another 3 times for a total of 5.

Twice in the movie theatre and thrice more at home...

Although that ship has sailed....dealerships is the current subject being discussed...I still want to address Casa...

But Id like to quote this from another article:

When compared to its closest competitor, the Cadillac CT6, the Continental undercuts by $9,005.

 

 

Like I said.....though kudos to you if you would buy a CT6 over an S Class and save yourself some cash...and according to the other thread...spend a tad more to acquire a CT6...

About that though...

Because you always seem to try to muscle your cash in front of everybody....

I RESPECT YOU BECAUSE YOU DO PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS...

Problem is..be careful to whom you shoot your mouth off too.

You got money to buy fancy cars?

And you think you are the only one?

Mr. Big Stuff
Who do you think you are?

Mr. Big Stuff
You're never gonna get my love!
Now because you wear all those fancy clothes (oh yeah)
And have a big fine car, oh yes you do now!

Do you think I cant afford to buy a car of y own??!!!(oh yeah)
You think you're higher than every star above!!!

Im doing quite good for myself as well....

I dont put my money into cars.

Ive got more expensive projects that Id like to achieve before acquiring 100 000 dollar plus cars...and at that...there is only 1 car that I would spend that kinda money on....

A frame off restoration of a 1970 Olds 442.....resto-mod it and pro-tour it...to the sweet sound of 75 000-100 000 American dollars!

With that being said, this is a car forum....where people could discuss cars of all prices...not who has the deepest pockets and are refrained to talk about cars they may not be able to own...because THAT is ALWAYS  your "GO TO" argument when all else fails!

About the Continental and CT6...

Not much to say, other than long gone are the days when Continentals and Eldorado Biarritzes were on top of the luxury car food chain....

Am I pleased with that???

Hell to the NO!!!!

But please, please, dont be foolish in thinking the S Class is in this category...

Or think the way you do...who the eff cares?

Buy American is your motto....so is mine!!!

But an S Class is superior to the CT6 no matter how you slice that American Pizza Pie!

Let us cheer for the Continental and CT6, because this is as good as it gets for American car luxury.

This is a favorite pic of mine...

Back in the day when I wasnt into EVs all that much

I know you CAN option a Camaro V6 to $38k, but it's a little ridiculous that every person is picking an alternative at that price point. C&D's $35k Camaro was pretty much loaded, short of unnecessary add ons like ground effects, stripe packages, and other useless frills. You can build a track-ready (brembos and track cooling systems) V6 trim for a hair over $30k, that's basically an N/A 335 horsepower sports car with more practicality than a 370Z.

Well, CP....with me, ya'll know quite well that I dont really like the 'Maros' exterior looks....and Im more of a mid-sized muscle car kinda guy....so....

Between the Alpha platform mates....'tis the Cadillac that I prefer.  Not because of the badge, but because what body the badge is on....

That Fisker Karma....man, what a SEXY car...

But before you guys think Im all weird and stuff...

I was thinking about Carmen Electra sitting next to me in that Fisker Karma...

C'est chien.

Mais au moins, c'est la verite....

"Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons" - Frontenac