surreal1272

So why do they make a 640 hp CTS-V?  That sells to a very small segment of buyers also.  When you think about it, crossovers outsell sedans.  The SRX outsold ATS and CTS combined.  A performance crossover could outsells a CTS-V.  Granted a sedan buyer is more likely to opt for the V8 than a crossover buyer.

 

Cadillac fans will say they don't  need a high performance SUV/crossoever because they don't have one.  But Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Audi, Land Rover and Jaguar do.   Where would Cadillac be with no ATS-V and CTS-V?  Everyone here says the CTS-V is the best Cadillac ever, why wouldn't  you want a crossover based on it?  You'd still have turbo 4 and V6 models for the masses.

 

We'll see what the Mercedes pick up is, my guess is a dash from the Metris and the same powertrain, and M-B Vans will sell it.   And regardless of what it is, Mercedes will still have over twenty models with 500+ hp.  3 years ago people said the CLA will be the end of Mercedes, it will cause the fall, it is doom and gloom, etc, etc.  Yet sales and profits keep rising to record levels, the C-class sales went up since the CLA came out.

 

I hope you all aren't waiting for Mercedes and BMW to fall for Cadillac to get back on top, it is going to be a long wait.

If you don't understand the fundamental argument of selling a high performance sedan versus a high powered mommy mobile and why you wait on that particular variation in the first place (because you clearly have ignored the fact that the original CTS-V came out one year AFTER the standard CTS, thus supporting my argument), then maybe you should just stop talking. I am done with the troll feeding. 

However, I will leave you with one last parting shot. I am going to submit this slogan for submission to Daimler's marketing department and see what they think. I think it will be a hit personally. 

"THE NEW MERCEDES FRONTIER! BOLDLY GOING WHERE NISSAN HAS BEEN FOR DECADES!"

Cadillac makes the Escalade, a fancy Tahoe, they also make the XT5 which is a fancy V6 Equinox. The Escalade and XT5 are direct competitors to the Lincoln MKX and Navigator, Cadillac is getting an XT3 to compete with the Lincoln MKC. Cadillac is getting an XT7, Lincoln likely getting a 3-row Explorer based SUV, so the two brands would have really similar SUV lineups full of vehicles based on Chevy/Ford product.

The difference is Lincolns cars are Ford Fusions, while Cadillac has true rear drive performance sedans. So Cadillac and Lincoln will compete on the SUV side, but not on the sedan side.

If Lincoln can't compete with Cadillac since they don't have performance sedans, I guess Cadillac doesn't compete with the Germans then, because Cadillac has no performance SUVs. They don't have a GLE63 or GLS63, X5 M, X6 M, Cayenne Turbo, Macan Turbo, SQ5, SQ7 competitor. Cadillac in the crossover market is in the same position Lincoln is in with their sedans.[/quote

Honestly SMK, you really need to go find a clue. Again, can't wait for the new Mercedes Frontier pick up.

Btw, no one gives two $h!s about 600HP SUVs and CUVs outside of the smallest of minority of buyers. I believe someone who posts just like you, said something about increasing volume. Think the name rhymed with FNK. Maybe you're familiar with them because after acknowledging that simple little fact, you will see how stupid your lastest post is. You don't increase volume with niche models. You increase your overall volume lineup with what you perceive as good selling cars and trucks. That does not happen by putting out niche 600HP SUVs that most people don't give a $h! about. Those come later, after those brands are established, another fact you have pointed out before but somehow have completely forgotten.

Trolling done horribly horribly wrong SMK

All I said was the Envision is in the small segment, yet priced on top of the XT5, which is mid-size and a Cadillac. How is saying the Envision is in the small segment, but priced similar to the XT5 trolling? It is the size of the vehicle and the prices of the vehicle. But as we talk about Cadillac and we know an XT3 is coming, which will be cheaper than XT5, if you take $5k off the XT5 you have a $33,995 X3, that is cheaper than an Envision. Sure the XT5 price could rise, and XT3 priced at $38k, but it seems odd that Buick and Cadillac are so on top of each other.

And the Mercedes GLC is 183.3 inches long, it is also in the small SUV segment. Same size vehicle as the Envision. How can the Envision be mid-size and the GLC be compact, when they are the same size? In what world can you claim the Buick Envision is a mid-size SUV? It doesn't make sense.

You are dodging the "issue" here. If you are going to criticize Cadillac for their dimensions in one segment then you have to do the same with MB. How do you have two CUVs that are ten inches apart in length yet they are both called "compacts", using your "logic"? Do you see it yet or do you want to continue with the phantom issue?

I am not criticizing Cadillac's dimensions at all. The XT5 is mid-size as you would expect "5" to be in the middle. The size for the name is spot on. My criticism was the Buick Envision costs more than the Cadillac XT5. Cadillac is supposed to be the luxury brand, Buick is supposed to be a step above Chevy and Entry-lux at best. A small Buick should not cost more than a mid-size Cadillac. That makes no sense. The Envision is the same size as a Verano, imagine a Verano priced more than the CTS.

If Cadillac is going to use entry-lix pricing, then we don't really need Buick or GMC, just expand the heck out of Cadillac and let Cadillac sell 15 models and rack up sales in the $30-60k range. If they want to do that and make Cadillac a Lincoln, Acura, Jeep, Chrysler, Infiniti competitor, then I am fine with that. They could mop the floor with all those brands if they focused on doing it.

But if Cadillac is going to be tier one luxury, a vehicle like XT5 should base around $50k and have a 640 hp V8 XT5-V for about $100k. They want to be top their, but we still haven't seen the product or the move toward that. Cadillac is still caught in building a fancy Chevy to battle the Fancy Fords that Lincoln is building, while claiming they are targeting the Germans. They have to decide a direction and stick with it.

Btw that last paragraph was, quite frankly, the most retarded thing I've read in a long time. Let me make this simple for you. Cadillac does not compete with Lincoln overall. That's Buicks job. Don't believe me? Show me one Lincoln that competes with a CTS-V or even am ATS-V. Don't worry. I'll wait.

Finally, calling them "fancy Chevys" is just flat out trolling as well as factually incorrect. When MB puts out their pick up, expect a lot of "fancy Nissan" remarks.

A $10K price advantage over the CT6 is quite significant.  Lincoln has the upper hand.

Not if the quality of materials, fit n finish is not there and it does not scream luxury.

 

In your opinion, have you detected anything through either picture or a journalist's remark (someone who has experienced it in person) that would suggest that this new Lincoln will not have quality materials, fit or finish? 

 

What I see, is continuous improvement in a brand that is delivering on product, but is a step or two behind in perception.  I bet this Continental will immensely help on the latter.

Hey Guest, How about sign up and make an account with us?? Officially become a member of the great community here at CnG! Good group of guys here.

Do we really another Ford employee? Lol

Damn quick fingers. That should have read "Do we really NEED another Ford employee?"

All I said was the Envision is in the small segment, yet priced on top of the XT5, which is mid-size and a Cadillac. How is saying the Envision is in the small segment, but priced similar to the XT5 trolling? It is the size of the vehicle and the price of the vehicle. But as we talk about Cadillac and we know an XT3 is coming, which will be cheaper than XT5, if you take $5k off the XT5 you have a $33,995 X3, that is cheaper than an Envision. Sure the XT5 price could rise, and XT3 priced at $38k, but it seems odd that Buick and Cadillac are so on top of each other.

And the Mercedes GLC is 183.3 inches long, it is also in the small SUV segment. Same size vehicle as the Envision. How can the Envision be mid-size and the GLC be compact, when they are the same size? In what world can you claim the Buick Envision is a mid-size SUV? It doesn't make sense.

A $10K price advantage over the CT6 is quite significant.  Lincoln has the upper hand.

Not if the quality of materials, fit n finish is not there and it does not scream luxury.

 

In your opinion, have you detected anything through either picture or a journalist's remark (someone who has experienced it in person) that would suggest that this new Lincoln will not have quality materials, fit or finish? 

 

What I see, is continuous improvement in a brand that is delivering on product, but is a step or two behind in perception.  I bet this Continental will immensely help on the latter.

Hey Guest, How about sign up and make an account with us?? Officially become a member of the great community here at CnG! Good group of guys here.

Do we really another Ford employee? Lol

Anyone notice that a 2016 Buick Envision (which is in the small segment and made in China) is $42,995, and the 2017 will have a $34,990 base model.

The Cadillac XT5 is $38,995, which is a mid-size crossover. A small Buick crossover is priced like a mid-size Cadillac. It doesn't make sense.

The Buick is midsize. Nice trolling though.

It is?????

Buick Envision length 183.7 inches long

Chevrolet Cruze 183.7 in

Cadillac ATS 183.6 in

BMW X3 183.8 in

I always thought those were in the small segment.

Anyone notice that a 2016 Buick Envision (which is in the small segment and made in China) is $42,995, and the 2017 will have a $34,990 base model.

The Cadillac XT5 is $38,995, which is a mid-size crossover. A small Buick crossover is priced like a mid-size Cadillac. It doesn't make sense.

The Buick is midsize. Nice trolling though.

It is?????

Buick Envision length 183.7 inches long

Chevrolet Cruze 183.7 in

Cadillac ATS 183.6 in

BMW X3 183.8 in

I always thought those were in the small segment.

That is what it is called. Take it up with GM and just stop the stupid trolling nonsense.

For reference though, the GLA is a luxury compact and is ten inches shorter than the Envision. The GLK is also called a compact that is five inches shorter than the Envision. You see where I'm going yet or do you want to continue with your phantom issues?

Is there a third choice because both are unreliable and one is just downright hideous (looking at you Alfa)?

To me Cadillac is a challenger brand that isn't sure what direction it wants to go.  It lacks focus.  10-15 years ago, they saw the 3-series and 5-series were successful and said let's copy that.  For the 2010 SRX they saw the Lexus RX selling like crazy, so they made the SRX the same size with fwd to copy.  There isn't really a true strategy of what they stand for.  They want to have low weight, cut every gram possible sports sedans, but then their halo product is a 6,000 lb SUV in which they never bothered to cut any weight from. 

 

Now it seems like they will design cars to suit China, even though they still sell more Cadillacs here than they do in China.  I do think there are some at Cadillac that want to make stylish, great American cars, play on the heritage, while offering the technology of today.   However there are too many bean counters that will interfere, or those that will argue if we turn an Enclave into a Cadillac that is cheaper than making a CT6 based crossover, so let's just do the quick an easy route, offer discounts later to move metal.  So you get what you what we have now.  Concept cars and ideas that seam great, but get heavily watered down in the process.

 

I don't care for BMWs all that much, but if everything they do is so wrong, or if the cars are bland, or no longer sporty the i3 is ugly and stupid, etc, then why do they whip Cadillac so bad?  The BMW haters want to hate on them, but they are selling close to 2 million cars a year now.  I think BMW makes their fair share of mistakes, but the people keep buying them.

Anyone notice that a 2016 Buick Envision (which is in the small segment and made in China) is $42,995, and the 2017 will have a $34,990 base model.

 

The Cadillac XT5 is $38,995, which is a mid-size crossover.  A small Buick crossover is priced like a mid-size Cadillac.  It doesn't make sense.

The Buick is midsize. Nice trolling though.

Frivolous lawsuit that some people are trying to cash in on.  Mercedes will win this one.

 

On the diesel issue as a whole though, how much nitric oxide toxic fumes do tractor trailer trucks, city buses, school buses, etc spill into the air?  Seems like they should have the same emission rules as passenger cars.

Your second paragraph is unrelated to the issue at hand. Those are regulated entirely different from passenger cars and for good reasons. For you to even bring that up shows the genuine concern that MB has been playing some dirty German pool like VW. Your sad deflection is a dead giveaway.

Of course they had to copy the Mercedes speaker covers and door mounted seat controls. It is funny how people here say Mercedes does so many things wrong, yet Cadillac and Lincoln both want to copy them, and Lincoln especially is hopeless in competing with them.

I swear it seems like I've seen that somewhere before...oh yeah. Here it is.

Oh and Lincoln has been using door mounted seat controls for a while.

..GuestDave.. that was a 10 year old post..lol 

 

You should sign up and join the daily community here at CnG!

Hey! Better late than never!

Mercedes could use cardboard boxes for front seats and the E-class or S-class would out sell the Continental. They may use faux leather on the base models, but they also offer a lot of options that others don't, and more 500 HP models than any other brand.

Still looks sort of boring.  I look forward to seeing the sales numbers, and how Ford tries to spin in it when it doesn't sell.

No more boring than your average Mercedes with pleather seats.

All funny stuff, but also remember: Thou shall not call it luxury unless it has been tested on the Nurburgring.

Some people don't care if the leather is real or not, so MB TeX does drip the base price more.

I guess they priced this car pretty close to the XTS, but Lincoln has less credibility than Cadillac and less of a following. This car will struggle to sell 1,000 a month, they will fleet sale and discount the heck of out in year two.

 

NO NO NO!!! What U two FAIL to realize is that German Luxury.. the smugness of it all.. the pretentiousness.. is about being a customer who will absolutely feel ingratiated to the manufacturer for giving U LESS.. for MORE. It is a given.. it is written.. in the Holy Journals of European Luxury.. that

 

"Thou shall not call it Luxury.. unless its Ala Carte"

 

"Thou shall not call it Luxury.. unless the great engineering also requires constant maintenance, and even then get rid of it on day 2 of warranty end"

 

"Thou shall not call it Luxury.. unless the styling is complete bull$h! and boring, looking no more distinct than a random Jellybean"

 

"Thou shall not call it Luxury.. unless the dealership looks like a women's make-up store"

 

" Thou shall not call it Luxury.. unless U leave outta said dealership after purchase with your rectum turned inside out and hanging like an elephants trunk.. cause baby.. U just got f@#kED.. with no KY, no Vaseline.. just some old sandpaper they had lying around"

Hahahahaha  

 

 

The interior doesn't even seem all that great.   They are asking Mercedes E-class money, for a car based on the Fusion, good luck.

Yeah except it isn't competing with a sport sedan.

 

Of course nothing American has great interiors because they aren't German. *sarcasm* 

 

What's funny is for $7000 you get 2hp, fake leather(MB Tex bull$h!), no keyless ignition like the Lincoln comes with, No heated seats like the Lincoln comes with, No rear view Camera like the Lincoln comes with, 17 inch wheels(Lincoln comes with 18's) 

 

Yeah, what a bargain the E Class is. 

 

Exactly! 

 

What really grinds my gears is the fake leather in a car that STARTS at FIFTY THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS. That's just insane and complete bull$h!. 

 

BMW and Mercedes are both extremely guilty of this practice but it is the one thing you won't hear their fans try to defend because it is indefensible.

 

The interior doesn't even seem all that great.   They are asking Mercedes E-class money, for a car based on the Fusion, good luck.

Yeah except it isn't competing with a sport sedan.

 

Of course nothing American has great interiors because they aren't German. *sarcasm* 

 

What's funny is for $7000 you get 2hp, fake leather(MB Tex bull$h!), no keyless ignition like the Lincoln comes with, No heated seats like the Lincoln comes with, No rear view Camera like the Lincoln comes with, 17 inch wheels(Lincoln comes with 18's) 

 

Yeah, what a bargain the E Class is. 

 

Exactly! 

The interior doesn't even seem all that great. They are asking Mercedes E-class money, for a car based on the Fusion, good luck.

Oh and that E Class starts at $7k higher and quickly shoots to a price that goes far beyond a top tier Continental.

Benz A-Class and B-Class have been sharing Benz grilles quite a while.

 

Again, I'm fine with grille sharing. And the CLA looks good. It just doesn't drive how it looks.

 

What is a wrong with a small car getting premium styling?  

 

The issue isn't that this new top of the line variant lacks the substance to back its looks. Now I think the front-end itself here is weaker. What SMK suggested - just using the regular S550 grille would have been more ostentatious, but it has precious gems and metal. 

 

And some nuances - the overall front ends are not exact carbon copies. The grille is the same, but everything else, be it headlights or front splitters are different. 

 

I can't see any reason to complain. This vehicle offers everything and more its competitors costing 3 times as much and weighing hundreds of pounds more do. And the interior is exceptionally-made.

 

Do I like it? No.

 

Still waiting on El Mi Ciel....

A. Nothing premium about a $30K Mercedes

And

B. It's a case of the newer $175k S Class coupe using the same nose as a $30k Mercedes. I understand family unity and all but a car in this price range can afford to look more distinguished than that.

"As for interior the Germans really have never set the world on fires unless you like all dark leather. They are to blame for many of the dull interiors the other MFG have copied." That was said by Hyper and it went from there. It was an evolving process about interiors unlike nobody mentioning Ford vs Chevy until very abruptly, out of nowhere. Very different. 

Not exactly helping your argument ccap. The Camaro and Mustang are direct competitors and the Mustang was referenced in that article. Just saying. 

And how is the Audi A3 an Audi TT?

 

And the CLA is itself is meant to be a swoopy sedan not unlike the larger CLS. Which itself is another on of those cars that are meant to be a coupe. 

 

This is a Mercedes coupe. Non-paying, non existent customers are preaching to the choir. 

 

I fail to see this grille choice as deal-breaking issue. The grille itself is made of some precious stones and metal.

This is a Camaro vs M4 thread, Bong. Nice Chevy being cheaper than a GT350 plug though, classic. 

 

 

 

Anybody else think after this comparison what the V6 or I4 would do to the 340i and 328i? I'd like to see those compared as well, ya know, just for $h!s. Especially the V6 and 340i. I wonder if the M4 would have stood a chance had the SS gotten the 1LE package. 

Yet you say nothing about another posters constant mentions of Mercedes even though this is NOT Mercedes either. 

Agreed with all, and you pretty much knew they wouldn't build it when they showed it.  They make these coupes and convertibles to build excitement for the brand, but then when you never make on, it is a bit of a buzzkill.  I think Cadillac needs a concept looking car more than Buick though.

 

Avista won't see production because it isn't a crossover.  That was pretty clear from the start.

Yeah, it sucks when companies like GM and Benz do that.

You cheated balty! Those are both S Class Convertibles! 

No they are not (unless you were being funny there).

CLA:

S Class Coupe

 

They put the Camaro's nose on the Sonic. 

Let's take a look at this knucklehead claim :

 

 

 

Now; my claim that MB just recycles the same nose :

 

 

 

You cannot tell them apart without seeing the side/ reading the rear.

It's WEAK.

 

Bless his heart. He tried Balt but it is clear as day. The Camaro and Sonic don't share anything up front. Not even close when compare to the CLA vs. the S Class Coupe.