surreal1272

 

 

Called this a while ago so I'm just gonna be lazy and paste this here

 

Like the 5series which shares a platform with the BMW 7 Series and is essentially a downsized 7 Series, the CTS will most likely be getting Omega as its bones, and be the same as the 5series in terms of sharing a larger platform. Basically the (current CTS)CT5 or 4 will be a "SWB CT6" still with the same body length as the current CTS, just larger inside via a wider and more space efficient platform called Omega. Count the need for Buick to chime in and get a flagship larger than the LAX for China and U.S (possibly). The "Avista" goes to Buick because they are continuing the trend down the age demographic.. and a sporty coupe could be the fix and seriously help Alpha along with the Camaro. 

 

 

 

Again... and based on what JDN said a few months ago about the next "CTS" and next "ATS" we should be seeing a simple change of size formula for the sake of these issues that critics have brought up about the legroom etc. I'm thinking for the most part the Alpha based ATS replacement will essentially get the Chinese ATS-L Wheelbase of 112.6 inch vs what it has right now of 109.3. This would dwarf the current 3series' 110.6 in WB by a few inches. I think that the ATS replacement will be, along with the Sub-ATS, the only Cadillacs on the Alpha platform, with the Camaro, and this Avista helping out with the numbers a bit more. 

 

The CTS replacement will probably go to Omega. I could see it staying at 196 inchs.. and getting a bump in Wheelbase (currently at 114.6 inches) too coming in at around 117 in N.Amer, like the 5Series. It has been said that the CT6 handles as well as the current CTS.. so certainly I would think that an OMega based... smaller than CT6... CTS would handle as well or better, not losing any of its agility, and losing a few hundred lbs in the change over. This would be beneficial in amortizing the Omega platform even quicker.. (altho I would still push it out to an Impala at Chevy and a Park Ave or Avenir at Buick) along with the CT7 and CT8

 

But how big do these cars get?  Does a CTS or CT5 become the size of a Chrysler 300?  Does the ATS become the size of Infiniti Q50 or Acura TLX?   BMW is just as guilty, they have had some bad size creep on the 3 and 5-series as of late.    I don't get the notion of forcing low end cars up market such as was done with  CTS.   Making the car bigger could hurt sales, not help.

 

Even Chevy and Ford are doing it.  The Cruze is way bigger than a Cobalt was, the Malibu has grown, pretty soon the Impala will be pushed out.  Ford is making the Focus larger, the Fusion longer, killing the Taurus.  These brands are killing the nameplates of their larger, more profitable vehicles to push low end models up.

 

In Chevy's example, they shoudl drop the Spark name plate, make the subcompact the Sonic, what is currently the Sonic becomes the Cruze, the Cruze becomes Malibu and the current Malibu/Impala merge into one car that is an Accord/Camry fighter.  This lets Chevy sella $17,000 Malibu which seems like incredible value, but really it is the same car a $16,000 Cruze would be, yet GM pockets $1,000.

 

It's like you didn't actually read what he actually wrote and are still asking the same questions as before (that have been answered ten fold). 

And I am so glad SMK is not charge of marketing for any of there companies he mentioned. 

Called this a while ago so I'm just gonna be lazy and paste this here

 

Like the 5series which shares a platform with the BMW 7 Series and is essentially a downsized 7 Series, the CTS will most likely be getting Omega as its bones, and be the same as the 5series in terms of sharing a larger platform. Basically the (current CTS)CT5 or 4 will be a "SWB CT6" still with the same body length as the current CTS, just larger inside via a wider and more space efficient platform called Omega. Count the need for Buick to chime in and get a flagship larger than the LAX for China and U.S (possibly). The "Avista" goes to Buick because they are continuing the trend down the age demographic.. and a sporty coupe could be the fix and seriously help Alpha along with the Camaro. 

 

 

 

Again... and based on what JDN said a few months ago about the next "CTS" and next "ATS" we should be seeing a simple change of size formula for the sake of these issues that critics have brought up about the legroom etc. I'm thinking for the most part the Alpha based ATS replacement will essentially get the Chinese ATS-L Wheelbase of 112.6 inch vs what it has right now of 109.3. This would dwarf the current 3series' 110.6 in WB by a few inches. I think that the ATS replacement will be, along with the Sub-ATS, the only Cadillacs on the Alpha platform, with the Camaro, and this Avista helping out with the numbers a bit more. 

 

The CTS replacement will probably go to Omega. I could see it staying at 196 inchs.. and getting a bump in Wheelbase (currently at 114.6 inches) too coming in at around 117 in N.Amer, like the 5Series. It has been said that the CT6 handles as well as the current CTS.. so certainly I would think that an OMega based... smaller than CT6... CTS would handle as well or better, not losing any of its agility, and losing a few hundred lbs in the change over. This would be beneficial in amortizing the Omega platform even quicker.. (altho I would still push it out to an Impala at Chevy and a Park Ave or Avenir at Buick) along with the CT7 and CT8

But how big do these cars get?  Does a CTS or CT5 become the size of a Chrysler 300?  Does the ATS become the size of Infiniti Q50 or Acura TLX?   BMW is just as guilty, they have had some bad size creep on the 3 and 5-series as of late.    I don't get the notion of forcing low end cars up market such as was done with  CTS.   Making the car bigger could hurt sales, not help.

 

Even Chevy and Ford are doing it.  The Cruze is way bigger than a Cobalt was, the Malibu has grown, pretty soon the Impala will be pushed out.  Ford is making the Focus larger, the Fusion longer, killing the Taurus.  These brands are killing the nameplates of their larger, more profitable vehicles to push low end models up.

 

In Chevy's example, they shoudl drop the Spark name plate, make the subcompact the Sonic, what is currently the Sonic becomes the Cruze, the Cruze becomes Malibu and the current Malibu/Impala merge into one car that is an Accord/Camry fighter.  This lets Chevy sella $17,000 Malibu which seems like incredible value, but really it is the same car a $16,000 Cruze would be, yet GM pockets $1,000.

Mercedes does the exact same thing. They pushed up the C Class to be able put out the sub $30k CLA for example. As a matter of fact, all companies do this.

^ Doesn't seem to for mercdees; 1 out of every 2 S-classes are sold in china and it's as soft as baby's bottom, yet they still sell here OK.

The S Class does very well in China well also being made there.

The S-class does well everywhere, and it has to be made there to sell there because of the import tax laws in China.  

 

If you buy an S-class or E-class in the USA it is made in Sindelfigen, Germany.

. That's not what I'm talking about but thanks for playing. We already know that if you had to live in China that you would not buy one that was made there. We've talked about this.

If I had to live in China, I would still buy a Mercedes, which in most cases would be made in China.  Just like people that live in the USA and buy a GLC or C-class or GLE are buying a Mercedes made in the USA.   They are often built in the region of the world where the car is sold.  Certain cars with lower volume are only tooled up at one factory though, such as the SL.  High volume like a C-class is built in 3 or 4 different factories.  Every car maker does this.

Funny because that's not what you said a few weeks ago. Back then you said you'd never drive a Chinese made Mercedes (on the CT6 made in China thread). Interesting.

And you are proving Balthazaars point.

I'll openly admit I down vote people who say super douchy $h! and there's just no debating with some people so they get a little click of "you're a douche" and I go on with my day. For the most part that's how I use it. I don't "down vote" I say "you're being a douche". When I disagree with somebody I usually just type something up on why I think one thing or another and they do the same, agreeing or disagreeing.

Not referring to you. There are some who don't even post here anymore that just pop in to see what they can down vote and then they are gone. No comments, no posts, no contributions to this site whatsoever other than to troll posts of people they don't like. They use that one down vote for the day and POOF, they are gone again. That is what I am talking about.

Seriously..? See that would grab one of my "you're a douche" votes. lol

I don't understand how you could have that much anger/hatred towards somebody via the internet ALONE. Never met, Never heard each other's voices, don't even know what they look like, yet there is that much hatred. Blows my mind.

Good lord man. Stop overdramatizing what I am talking about. It's a simple observation of what the trolls around here were doing. You and I both know that is what has been going on in some of these cases. I am not being a douche at all and if you think that is "you're being a douche" vote then the problem is with you and your perceptions. In this case, your perception about me is wrong here. Again, there is no anger, no hatred. It is an observation that can actually be backed up with facts (this has been discussed before). I'm just tired of the children. If you confusing that with hatred or anger, then I don't know what else to tell you. Don't vote all you want if you continue to feel something about me that isn't there. That's all I'm going to say about it because it's taking away from the topic.

Hey man, I sent you a pm. I really didn't clarify what I meant by that. Sorry about that.

It's all good in the hood.

^ Doesn't seem to for mercdees; 1 out of every 2 S-classes are sold in china and it's as soft as baby's bottom, yet they still sell here OK.

The S Class does very well in China well also being made there.

The S-class does well everywhere, and it has to be made there to sell there because of the import tax laws in China.  

 

If you buy an S-class or E-class in the USA it is made in Sindelfigen, Germany.

^ Doesn't seem to for mercdees; 1 out of every 2 S-classes are sold in china and it's as soft as baby's bottom, yet they still sell here OK.

The S Class does very well in China well also being made there.

 

 

I'll openly admit I down vote people who say super douchy $h! and there's just no debating with some people so they get a little click of "you're a douche" and I go on with my day. For the most part that's how I use it. I don't "down vote" I say "you're being a douche". When I disagree with somebody I usually just type something up on why I think one thing or another and they do the same, agreeing or disagreeing. 

Not referring to you. There are some who don't even post here anymore that just pop in to see what they can down vote and then they are gone. No comments, no posts, no contributions to this site whatsoever other than to troll posts of people they don't like. They use that one down vote for the day and POOF, they are gone again. That is what I am talking about. 

 

Seriously..? See that would grab one of my "you're a douche" votes. lol 

 

I don't understand how you could have that much anger/hatred towards somebody via the internet ALONE. Never met, Never heard each other's voices, don't even know what they look like, yet there is that much hatred. Blows my mind. 

 

Good lord man. Stop overdramatizing what I am talking about. It's a simple observation of what the trolls around here were doing. You and I both know that is what has been going on in some of these cases. I am not being a douche at all and if you think that is "you're being a douche" vote then the problem is with you and your perceptions. In this case, your perception about me is wrong here. Again, there is no anger, no hatred. It is an observation that can actually be backed up with facts (this has been discussed before). I'm just tired of the children. If you confusing that with hatred or anger, then I don't know what else to tell you. Don't vote all you want if you continue to feel something about me that isn't there. That's all I'm going to say about it because it's taking away from the topic. 

I'll openly admit I down vote people who say super douchy $h! and there's just no debating with some people so they get a little click of "you're a douche" and I go on with my day. For the most part that's how I use it. I don't "down vote" I say "you're being a douche". When I disagree with somebody I usually just type something up on why I think one thing or another and they do the same, agreeing or disagreeing. 

Not referring to you. There are some who don't even post here anymore that just pop in to see what they can down vote and then they are gone. No comments, no posts, no contributions to this site whatsoever other than to troll posts of people they don't like. They use that one down vote for the day and POOF, they are gone again. That is what I am talking about. 

Well..crazy idea.

 

The Oshawa plant that used to build the Zeta Camaro...could now be used to build the Chevrolet SS? 

The Zeta platform need not go away...

 

If FCA is willing to sell a decade old LX platform...and still sell tons of them and make modest profits with it...GM could use a decade old platform too and sell some of them, and make a small profit as well...

Very interesting debate and while I have to agree with Hyper on his thinking, I do also wonder why someone would down vote without explanation or defending their down vote.

 

I personally wish the down and up vote would require you to have to post why you are voting that way. This way you cannot just play troll but have to take part in the discussion and debate / defend your position so others can better understand.

 

It is the democratic way of being transparent and saying I agree or disagree with you and this is why.

People vote down because they are children. Just do away with it altogether and get rid of the last of those children.

2014 Cadillac CTS-V Wagon

2007 Dodge Magnum SRT8

2014 Ford Raptor (because you need a big ole off road machine)

2016 Cadillac Escalade (for when I don't need the big ole truck)

2016 Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 (for evenings with the mistress)

How are they still in business? Seriously.

I actually like the look of the S90. Very sharp and doesn't convey a "cookie cutter" look like so many others do. Very nice.

 

 

The Model S outsold the CTS and XTS too.   But the Model S was the only Tesla on sale, and there isn't another pure EV in that segment either.  Once Tesla has 3-4 models to spread the sales around, and others start to sell pure EV luxury cars, we'll see if the Model S sales hold up.  

Well, as long as you have yet another excuse for Mercedes. 

 

It isn't an excuse, Tesla sold 25,000 Model S in the USA in 2015.  That is a good number for a $100,000 car, but there aren't any other pure EVs anywhere near that price range, and Tesla as a company had one model.  The the Leaf was the only $30,000 EV and the Volt, i3 and Ford EVs didn't exist, Leaf sales would triple.   

 

People like to say how the Model S outsells the S-class, that means it outsells many other cars too.  The Model S outsells the XJ, A8, 7-series and Quattroporte combined.  The big difference is the Model S doesn't make any profit, the S-class does.

 

No. You are missing the point here SMK. You're still making excuses and following them up with half truths (like the Tesla S not making a profit). Thanks for playing though.

Good lord people. Did everyone just have a big ole bag of bitchy flakes the other day?

 

People can charge at home.  The only place you really need the charging stations is on turnpikes, interstate rest stops, and the sort of places that are along long haul driving routes that aren't near a city.   The people that are afraid of electric cars act like there aren't electric outlets all over the place.   I don't see people freaking out needed a gas powered battery extender for their phones.  They just plug it in and charge it at night and use it all day, and charge it the next night.  If you travel on vacation for a week, you take your charger with you.  The car will be no different.

I honestly don't know but I doubt you can just park next to any random building and just plug your car into their outlet. I know if I was the business owner I wouldn't allow that unless they were buying products or services. So yes, there are outlets EVERYWHERE but you can't just use one owned by somebody else.

 

More and more places (like here in the Phoenix area) have charging stations set up there (mostly large shopping areas and shopping centers, which makes sense). Folks are shopping there anyway, and it makes for a nice incentive for a EV driver to shop in those places. Great marketing if you ask me. More of that is coming too.

The Model S outsold the CTS and XTS too.   But the Model S was the only Tesla on sale, and there isn't another pure EV in that segment either.  Once Tesla has 3-4 models to spread the sales around, and others start to sell pure EV luxury cars, we'll see if the Model S sales hold up.  

Well, as long as you have yet another excuse for Mercedes. 

 

 

And Cadillac can't beat them why?  

Pssst!! Cadillac is NOT, repeat: NOT racing mercedes to sell millions upon millions of vehicles in every price class.

 

How about just 1 car over $100,000?

 

Just stop.

 

 

And Cadillac can't beat them why?  

Pssst!! Cadillac is NOT, repeat: NOT racing mercedes to sell millions upon millions of vehicles in every price class.

 

How about just 1 car over $100,000?

 

Pick and argument and stick with it. You first claim it's about sales and now it's about "exclusive models". Let's go back to "sales" shall we? Cadillac will not pass Mercedes in sales nor to do they have to. Not every luxury make needs to pad their sales with boxy vans, B cars, and platform sharing pick ups (hello Nissan).

The cost probably isn't that high to do what Mercedes is doing. The C, GLC, GLC coupe, E-class and soon CLS all ride on the same MRA platform, the 2 liter 4 and 3.0 V6 and 4.0 V8 are used in all (or will be soon). They all have the same transmission.

So the cost is just in body styles, it no different than ATS, CTS, Camaro. If Mercedes is going to make a c-class coupe and convertible, making a coupe body style on a crossover probably makes sense.

So they are just doing putting out the same cars with different skins. Sounds about right.

For some odd reason, I actually like this car. Would look interesting in a sportback configuration (wishful thinking I know) but a nice looking car nonetheless (and obvious homage to BMW not withstanding).

Seeing some similarities to this but nice nonetheless.

"Hello? Toyota?" 

"Yes." 

"The Aztek would like it's ugly back now"

Not putting too much stock in to this because about 60-70% of this will never see production. Interesting concept but a concept nonetheless. The Conti nose does not work on this at all and the profile of it looks like a stretched Range Rover. Just not feeling the outside of this at all.