surreal1272

32 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

That's gone, the GLA is $38,650 with destination.  That is the cheapest vehicle and that is no options, no all wheel drive.

Drew already pointed it but it mostly a joke anyway, and one that wasn’t too far from the truth for the “best or nothing”. 
 

And it’s $37,500 for that GLA. 
 

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

With $0 advertising spend they keep gaining in sales as fast as they can build them and by far have the best profit per car

That’s not true either. FFS man, if you’re going to make Tesla out to be so great, make sure it’s backed up by facts. 
 

Even after a price drop, their “demand” was off. 
 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/04/02/investing/tesla-sales/index.html

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

GM sold 2 Hummer EV’s last quarter, true stat

True stat without context, like the fact that production was halted to address the battery issues. If you’re going to make this case about sales and their correlation to prices, then make sure you give complete context when you do it. Think of it the same way you do when Mercedes doesn’t meet certain expectations. 

15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That went over so well it's canceled already.

True but he has made that $30K statement for the last few years so it was fair to point out the flaw in his statement lol. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes doesn’t build $30,000 vehicles

The $33K A-Class must not have received that memo.

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

So deep down they know ICE is dead

What part of "moving to EVs' are you not getting here? Does the simple concept elude you so much that you, again, have to make up this phantom about advertising and marketing timeframes? Seriously? How long has Benz been promoting the still not for sale Project One? 

Or how about thew G-Wagen?

First shown off by Mercedes September 2021 and still prominently on their website.

Again, you spend post after post complaining about other companies tactics while avoiding the fact that ALL brands (including your favorite) do this and have been doing this for decades now. Give it up already.

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Maybe that will follow, but they better get it going fast or the Cybertruck will take all Ram's sales too, because Tesla will have scale.

Again, until that 3 year delayed truck is actually on sale, we can talk about "scale". Judging by it's most recent testing though, you have WAY higher hopes for it's success than just about everyone else lol.

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla has changed how they do business.

You mean the company that hasn't changed the design of their first sedan since it came out in 2013 (save for bits and unnoticeable pieces)?

It's 2023 and we talking 2025, a whole TWO years. I've seen longer future talk and any number of companies since well, ever. That is not a new practice. It only seems that no because companies are attempting to push a lot of product in a relatively short period of time. About the delays hell, it could show up one year late and still be ready to actually sell before the Cybertruck (a joke but I'm really not that far off). As long as they don't have a Tesla like delay with it, they will be fine. 

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Chevy spend all last year advertising the Equinox EV 18 months before it even went on sale.

 

EV dude. EV. That is why. They spent billions on EVs so advertise now, not two months before it actually comes out like old GM. It's not rocket science.

15 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I think that leads to the jellybean styling though so, I kind of agree with him there. 

While it isn't the entire issue with their aesthetics, I think it's a big part in how it's all shaped together. 

 

If you brought that down it would look much more S Class-like, which I think everybody agrees is an attractive shape. 

Also, sorry for the garbage drawing on the EQS, I can't smoothly navigate a mouse to draw for the life of me. Hahaha

 

 

I will agree to disagree because the entire shape is the problem to me and most folks out there, apparently. Nothing about the exterior design screams “best or nothing”. And the entire rear three quarter resembles the S Class about as much as a jellybean resembles an S Class (it doesn’t). Just slimming down the hood does not help it look anything like the S Class. Two completely different designs. 
 

But back to the EV9…

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

So it's more of an "everybody has an issue" type of thing, right? 

The only truly reasonably priced EVs are the Bolt, Bolt EUV and Leaf. Everything else is pretty insane for the size of vehicle you're getting. 

The funniest part is how he thinks the high cowl on the Jellybean twins is the only issue with them. 

20 minutes ago, David said:

Over Compensation issue is what we called little man syndrome when you saw little guys buying and driving the H2 Hummer when it first came out. 

True but it also applies to Luxo snobs. Same principles.

1 hour ago, David said:

Why Does price even matter at this point if someone who has been following the auto industry has any common sense.

That's exactly my point in regards to the same person who always asks the same question, at this stage of development, and then speculates when he doesn't get the answer he wants (even when it's just not there at the time) while knocking any price point he perceives to be "too high" because in encroaches on Mercedes territory (oh the over-compensation issues here lol). This "analysis" goes for EVERY brand not coming from Daimler. That's my issue here.

15 hours ago, David said:

Common sense is we will get the pricing info close to the date of opening up for pre-orders. Right now comparing what is in this EV compared to the few others on the market, it appears to be a very competitive product.

Common sense? You mean the price question he asks for everyone else but one manufacturer?

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I know the price will come later.  It looks like a good product I agree, but if they want $50k for an EV6 which is a Sportage size vehicle, is this $75k, $85k?

How about we actually wait on the price before delving into your analysis about what car is worth what money (again, for every brand but one)?

The only thing known is that early estimates have it around $55K for the base model. That is it. Nothing more.

35 minutes ago, David said:

This will be interesting to watch.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/04/brace-yourself-gm-pre-announces-corvette-zr2-shooting-brake/

Ummm...

4 hours ago, David said:

Clearly why they are doing their North America Tour to introduce folks to the brand.

It will be interesting to see if people go for it or not. I will go and check it out when they are here.

View the Polestar 3 at Polestar Bellevue

28 April 2023, 11.00 AM - 30 April 2023, 07.00 PM PDT

Exactly. It's almost like it makes sense to do this in order to spread word about the brand, something sorely missed by Mr. "it's not a Mercedes" like anyone outside of the Daimler fanboy club gives two s**ts about the Polestar NOT being a Mercedes. Good grief.

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And I haven't insulted every American car company, I have been very pro Tesla and stated how they will be the #1 car maker in the world in 10 years, maybe by 2030.

Okay so you have insulted 3 out of the 4 (at damn near every turn) and the only reason for not bashing Tesla must have to do with stocks because it sure isn't because of the quality of the auto. 

9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac was really sedan heavy in an SUV market.

Cadillac had FEWER sedans than Mercedes. 

It's like David said, and anyone who is not Mercedes fan looking for yet another chance to bash any American car company NOT named Tesla, it was lack of marketing more than anything else.

A very "Lucid" front end, which is not really a bad thing in this case.

I could honestly do this all day. 
 

11 hours ago, David said:

Common Man, your popping his conspiracy bubble

(Resharpens knife for next bubble popping)

And "YES" to the rest of your post. I am just tired of the fanboy logic being thrown out there without even a lick of simple research and data to back up said "logic". 

For crying out loud, go ahead and price a Chevrolet SS right now. They sold for $50K new and I routinely see those sell for that price with more than 30K miles on them. Lower mile examples go for even more. His logic is easily flushed down the toilet with a simple google search.

Even the Camaro ZL1 has staying power and 20 years from now, it will continue to go higher with the Camaro ceasing production and being a low production trim itself.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Used Hellcats right now are $50-85k for the most part, nothing is going to make those go up in value.  So I don’t see the last call demon selling for like $200k 20 years from now when there will be a ton of cheap hellcats and prior demons out there

All the prior CTS-V’s, Camaros, Shelby Mustangs all depreciated.

Good lord. Did you miss the limited production part of the Demon or do you somehow think there will be millions of them 20 years from now? It should be noted that the other cars you mentioned are all less than 20 years old too so maybe (skipping the fact that I routinely see CTS-V Wagons going for right at their original sticker with low miles), pick a spot and sitka with it because you can't have it both ways. A low mile limited production Demon will fetch above original price 20 years from now.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Used Hellcats right now are $50-85k

They start at $69K and the Redeye starts at $76K so...go ahead and explain this...

And this...

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The thing with these last call Challengers is I don’t think they will appreciate.

Did you just seriously type that with a straight face?

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Catch up when?  Ford said they expect to be at 10% margin on EV's in 2026, Tesla was at 20% margin in 2022.  

Tesla sales are up an estimated 39% YTD in the USA, 46% in China, they are that fastest growing car maker, up 44% last year in a down market, going to be up over 40% this year.   The Model Y is the number 4 selling vehicle in the country, on pace for over 400,000 units this year.  Mach-E, Hyundai/Kia can't scale at that level and even if they could, I don't think there are 400,000 people that want to buy a $50,000 Hyundai Ionic, or any Hyundai at any price because they never had a car sell that volume.  

And keep in mind, Chevrolet has 11 vehicles with base price under $40k, Ford has 10, Toyota has 13, Hyundai has 8, and that isn't counting the hybrid version or coupe and convertible as 2 models.  That is where those brands do a ton of business.  Tesla has zero cars under $40k.  Once they hit the price point that the masses can afford their sales probably double or triple.  

And there is a 500 hp version of the inline six.  They could drop that in the Challenger/Charger/300 for an SRT model and it would likely be faster than the 6.4 V8's.  Assuming they want to spend the money to engineer it to fit in the car, certify emissions, etc.  Not sure if they want to spend any money on a 18 year old platform car at this point, when they can fleet sale Pentastar V6 LH cars a couple more years just to have something to sell.

Oh FFS. How many times are you going to beat this horse to death, Market valuations and the house of cards that is Tesla profit margin has been explained to you time and time again yet you come back two months later with the same debunked BS. Just stop it already.

I'm assuming that you can read a basic graph.

I would that losing over HALF of your market cap is the opposite of a good sign for Tesla but keep cherry picking that data to prop them top, for whatever reason. Ignore all the facts that show the dangers for Tesla. You haven't convinced anyone here of ti yet but hey, it clearly hasn't stopped you from beating that dead horse for the last three years now, much like your Cybertruck talk.

Oh and...

Now, maybe we can go back to the subject at hand, which is the Challenger Demon. Let's try that, shall we?

38 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla has a more efficient manufacturing process with newer plants than the legacy OEM’s.  That is where Tesla is winning.

Is that why the three years delayed Cybertruck has been such a sales hit?

And let's not forget that legendary Tesla reliability and build quality because, you know, efficiency.

Yeah, so much winning lol.

30 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It has to be around $50k to start to get the 200,000 volume I think.  That’s the magic number because we see how GM, Ford and Ram pushed truck prices to 60, 70, 80 thousand and now these trucks are stuck on dealer lots.  A $60k loan at 6.5% is about $1100 a month for 6 years.  Then add gas, maintenance, insurance, it is like $1500 a month to drive a new pick up. Not going to be a huge buyer pool if they keep pushing prices and interest rates stay high.  
 

If Tesla is priced like an ICE truck with $7500 tax credit, no gas, limited maintenance, better resale value then there is a big cost savings for the Tesla.

"If...if...if"

We have been hearing that about the Cybertruck for what...three years now? 

And your price point argument ignores a couple of things. First, the Cybertruck will not be even $50K, as it has already been pointed out. Second, while the D3 have pushed their tuck towards higher price points, $80K trucks are not even close to their volume and they start at around $15K LESS then this hypothetical $50K entry price of the Cybertruck. Two words for you regarding the D3 volume movers. "Work" and "truck". Third, the loan rate talk applies to Tesla as well so, how exactly does that help them get to that magical 200K number?

This is not even close to a legitimate comparison (in regards to sales volume and price points) and you know that but you have been pushing this "if, if, if" nonsense for so long, regarding the Cybertruck, that it just like Elons claims over the last three years. Just empty words and white noise. 

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

So Cybertruck could take 10-15% of that market, I think that is pretty reasonable.  That still puts the F150 to about 600k units a year, the Model Y could pass that.

Mercedes EV sales aren't poor, the EQS is the only one that was on sale all last year, it is the #2 selling vehicle over $100,000 ICE or EV and it is only #2 because Mercedes makes the #1 seller.  The EQS outsold the Taycan, the 911, even outsold the Cadillac CT4 that is 1/3rd the price.  Mercedes too though needs to ramp up more production and they need the smaller size EVs because the volume lives there, not with a $125,000 sedan.  

And my point is not about low EV sales, it is more about profitability of EV sales, which these low volume producers don't make any money.  And my other point is Tesla hasn't hit the mainstream price yet, once you can get a Tesla for the same price as an ICE Chevy/Ford/Toyota/Hyundai/etc and then get a tax credit, no gas, limited maintenance, less depreciation, a Tesla becomes cheaper than owning a Corolla.  That is game over for the legacy OEM's.

I see some dipped their whole head into the devils lettuces before they posted this, with the coup de grace being "a Tesla becomes cheaper than owning a Corolla.".

BTW, I think I will compare Escalade sales to Sprinter van sales, while we are it. Or how about Ford F-150 sales against Mercedes Benz EQE (in the same vain as your asinine EQS to CT4 sales comparison)? That sounds about right, doesn't it?

Just pure fanboy nonsense SMK. Sorry.

53 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Nah...  its lazy journalism.

Nah. It's subjective, just like your subjective observation of it. It is really is that simple but if making a mountain out of molehill is the way you want to go, then knock yourself out. However, it seems like you are just focusing on the one bullet points copy and pasted by David instead of the article itself, which provides much better context. Again, though, maybe making mountains is where you would prefer to do here. In that case, I am tipping myself on out of it. Nothing personal.