surreal1272

42 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

How is it an suv?  How is that anything more than a hatchback with big wheels?

There are 2-door Imprezas that are more SUV than that...

Basically an AMC Eagle wagon in EV form lol.

28 minutes ago, David said:

It is very interesting to me that Polestar is using the same Snapdragon automotive system that runs Android and it can still support Apple Carplay. 

This tells me that GM could do this too.

But they don't want to because Apple won't play the same game as Google (for good or bad). GM wants to learn about their consumers while they are driving (not a fan of said policy, for the record) and target them with corresponding subscription based services and Google is the perfect host for that tactic since they don't give a rat's posterior about customer privacy and specialize in target advertising. For all of this to happen, it has to squeeze Apple out of the box, so to speak. This subscription nonsense is getting out of hand and GM lost a potential EV buyer with this new setup with Google. This has less to do with my Apple preference and more to do with my distaste of everything Google, where privacy is concerned. Hell, even Lucid added Apple CarPlay recently. The omission for the sake of poaching more dough customers (who have already paid tens of thousands for their GM EV) is just dumb and greedy as hell IMO.

And in what kind of Swedish/Chinese common core math world nonsense is a 4 slotted between a 2 and a 3? 

53 minutes ago, SDotJizzle said:

They also don't build as many Aviators as they build GLEs and X5s...the volume product out that plant is the Explorer...without a doubt.  Margin per vehicle produced, I bet they're somewhere in the same ballpark.

Not the point. You wanted a RWD competitor for the two Germans mentioned and I simply stated that Lincoln already has that. Volume, or lack thereof, does not change that fact. 

And not sure what bringing up the Camry and sales have to do with anything I mentioned either since I never brought up sales being the be all, end all. Sales are simply sales and have zero bearing on the quality of a car. Dime a dozen Corollas prove this.

Just saying.

1 hour ago, SDotJizzle said:

up your price and undercut the X5, GLE with a RWD based product. 

The RWD based Aviator competes directly with the above mentioned and undercoat both in price already, yet its sales are average at best. That does not make a good case to switch yet another CUV to RWD just because, especially with EVs coming in to take their place. Just not a good business case of Lincoln right now. The next RWD CUV/SUV from them with be an EV, more than likely. 

17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The price is attractive, it is pretty cheap, if you can live with the weak power train and no AWD.  Which the Kia Seltos has AWD and a 1.6 turbo optional.  The Corolla Cross has more power too.  But if you want crossover coupe, here you go.

If I hand you some actual apples, will you compare them to other apples or do you just whip out the oranges like you are doing here?

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I can't figure out if I am more surprised that the Nautilus is still on the market, or that they actually spent money to redesign it.

Because of course you are "surprised".

Fun fact: There are many good vehicles that exist outside of Germany. 

1 hour ago, David said:

Interior is nice, I am sure this will attract those that wanted a car but will settle for the coupe style SUV. The face on it is just a head shaker for me as I find nothing attractive about it.

My exact same thoughts. Nice interior but absolutely boring and bland on the outside. Some questionable visual elements as well. 

17 hours ago, David said:

Very interesting read

 The $25,000 EV is coming, with big implications for car buyers (cnbc.com)

So Tesla is just going to magically reduce manufacturing cost by 50% for this mythical $25K EV? Those "details" are sketchy at best so I will believe it when I see and then there would be no way I would buy it. Tesla has quality and build issues in the $50-150K range. Think that gets better just by waiving the "it'll be a quality $25K EV" wand at it Elon? Best of luck with that. 

Just skip the inflation factor between now and 2026 too.

2 hours ago, David said:

I think it will go for some like my kids that have no problem connecting via bluetooth to existing systems like my kids do in their Jeeps GC autos.

That is a sound quality issue for me. Bluetooth audio sucks the highest order donkey. I use at home occasionally but in my car, it's a direct hookup and much better sound quality. Controls are far easier for use on the hardware than it is over bluetooth as well IMO. The kids can have it. This old fart has a different set of expectations on his drive.

2 hours ago, David said:

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Qualcomm has on their website that they had invited Apple and Google at the start to join in the co-development of their auto Controller system, Apple choose to decline and focus on their own auto.

Also because Apple offers their own competing chipset with their M line of CPUs. They are in everything "Apple" now (save for the technically ARM sourced A series chips in iPhones and TV streaming boxes) so telling Apple their "OS" needs to jive with competing hardware and subsequent OS (and often times, slower hardware) is a tough sell for them, knowing that they are involved in their own project. I just don't get the automakers willing to wholesale abandon a rather sizable user base, in the long term though. Me, personally, I can adapt to any tech thrown into these cars but being that two major sources of data (on my travels) involve my phone, that is a potential issue for me when I decide to go the EV route. GM will be S.O.L. if they decide to keep on this path.  

8 hours ago, David said:

That could give little kids a nightmare or extreme joy.

This is an interesting read and explains allot of why the auto industry is going away from Apple Carplay and Android Auto. Will be interesting to see how this works out for them.

Colin Barnden on LinkedIn: #carplay #android #auto #infotainment #smartphone #processor #snapdragon… | 64 comments

What are all your thoughts on this?

@Drew Dowdell @surreal1272 @Robert Hall @oldshurst442 @trinacriabob @smk4565 

Oh, it's' really simple. From a "business" standpoint, it's all about money. Nothing more, nothing less. Everything else is secondary.

Putting that aside, from a tech standpoint, I get going the hardware route they chose. Having a capable and active infotainment system, can have a lot of advantages, from a "performance" standpoint (responsive menus, ease of use, improved feature sets, etc). The mirror mode used by CarPlay and Android Auto can definitely hinder performance in terms of menu response, on top of being a nested layer on top of the existing infotainment system (and the pitfalls that entails) that sometimes just doesn't "jive" with the rest of the infotainment system. 

What is baffling me how Google is deeply involved with these new infotainment so it's not much of a loss for them. It's the exact opposite, as a matter of fact. Apple, however, seems to lagging on this and it's mostly because of this odd focus on their own car development. Maybe they have something up their sleeve over the next few years but with Google getting involved with a lot of these automakers, it will be an uphill fight for them by then.

I do know this. I will be damn if I pay for another streaming service when I have literally everything, music related, on Apple Music, which I get for a FAR lower price than services like Spotify (have a bundle deal with Apple+ which makes Apple Music less than $5 month). Everything I have in my house, has some kind of Apple related connection to it so these auto makers better think long and hard about cutting out one whole demographic just for the sake of pushing their own redundant nonsense for a "small fee" every month. 

My favorite lie of the year.

”Tesla has spent $0 in advertising”

A $44 billion purchase of Twitter would beg to differ. Elon is Tesla and is using Twitter to push Tesla and everything else backed by him when he’s not sounding like a complete jackass on there. 

1 hour ago, David said:

Anyone can give a low price and @surreal1272 proved there was an MSRP $50K on the lot at a dealership.

And then some. 
 

Which is still cheaper than his $57K claim and again, how many price bumps from Tesla over the past five years and he is going to harp on others for doing less? That’s why a discussion can’t be had with him. Just some serious bar moving gymnastics and I’m over this childish fanboy nonsense. The sad thing is that while he touts this “huge” price drop, he failed to realize that this new price merely aligns with its original price before all the bumps over the years (Remember, the Y was supposed to start at closer to $40K than $50K and we know what happened there). He also fails to see that the price drops are to help lagging sales. Let me say it again. It’s to help LAGGING SALES. Big sellers don’t need a price drop but shhhh, apparently Tesla is the exception to basic economics. 

I’m done with @smk4565 . I just literally gave you a real world example and you move that damn bar yet again (like I knew you would). Stop it. Seriously. You were proven wrong and you still want to act like you weren’t shown the facts? Go to a Tesla forum with that biased nonsense. 

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

2021 Mustang Mach-E  $42,895

2023 Muatang Mach-E $45,995

And keep in mind you can’t order the base Mach-E so the lowest cost is $57,995 and the tax credit drops to $3750 on April 18th compared to $7500 last year.  

Let me show you where your lack of context is getting you bit in the A. The above numbers are true for the Mach-E (for the 2021 and 2023 figures only, not the $57,995 figure). Bravo to that. However (after a whole 20 second search near my location)...

Clicked "Search inventory" and...

 The window sticker....

Last I checked, that is:

A.) Considerably LESS than the $57K figure you just used.

B.)Still LESS than a base model Y (that has less standard features than the Mach-E thus killing the tax credit advantage of $3750 enjoyed by the Y), even AFTER the recent price drop on it. 

And this AFTER an even bigger 20% cut in January. Basically, it took those price drops to put the Y in the same breath as the Mach-E, when talking about competitive pricing. Just think about that before replying because I am not going to keep spelling out the obvious here.

Or...

...should I just go ahead and move that bar for you and save your back from the repeated lifting?

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And Hyundai Ioniq 5 down 8% this year, down 22% last month as they trend downward like Kia

First five years of Tesla sales and production issues for 1000 Alex. 
 

You do have a context issue. Put the Tesla Pom poms down and tell us how “well” Tesla was doing the first 5 years of mass production. Make sure you include their “fine” quality and “reliability” standards that have been a part of Tesla since day one. Go ahead. Give the truth a shot for once. 

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Model Y comparable trim to comparable trim is cheaper than the Mach-E and has a $7500 tax credit vs $3750 that the Mach-E gets starting April 18th.

Stop moving the damn bar FFS. Your posts was about price drops and I gave it to you. No mention of tax credits prior so you don’t get to bring it up now.  Again, Tesla is on their 3rd price drop in the last four months yet their lackluster quarterly reports shows that it did not help them beat their expected numbers, end of story because that’s where this nonsense started before you started with your apples to oranges BS. No amount of talking about tax credits changes those facts. 

It has become my life's mission to see this band live. A complete throwback to the 70s but, in this case, that is not a bad thing here. Just pure groove and live, they just peel your ears back. The vocalist Jay Buchanan is the real deal in an era of phonies IMO.

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

2021 Mustang Mach-E  $42,895

2023 Muatang Mach-E $45,995

Since you want to keep at it, here you go, Mach E price drop of up to $5700.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42705579/2023-ford-mustang-mach-e-prices-drop-increased-production/

AND AGAIN, Tesla had been jacking up their prices for the last four years so I'm sure what argument you are trying to make but I'm pretty sure it's not the one you think it is.

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And Kia and Ford are losing money on those EV’s so they keep jacking the price up.

Again, Tesla kept doing that for years until they actually made a profit but somehow with others, this is the damning issue to you. BTW, one word for you, "inflation", something even your favorite brand had to realize, hence all of their price bumps.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/08/mercedes-increases-prices-for-most-2023-models-g-class-leads-the-way-with-an-8150-hike/

48 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla just cut prices again, $1,000 to $5,000 depending on model.  The other guys are raising prices, pretty predictable how this will turn out.

Ummm, many others ALSO cut their prices but maybe you missed that memo. How predictable is it again, knowing the actual facts now?

It just amazes me how you think Tesla exists in this mysterious sales vacuum where only they have done certain things, like drop prices. The price part laughable since it was Tesla that ALSO started the trend of jacking up prices for no other reason than to pad Elon's wallet. The profit stat proves that. Funny how you don't mention how that practice led to the lower price tactic.

41 minutes ago, David said:

Post your source on this please. You have posted so much FUD that none of this is believable without a source posted. 

Example the only thing I can currently find on profit margins for EVs is as follows and Mercedes DOES NOT have a listing.

Charted: Tesla's Unrivaled Profit Margins (visualcapitalist.com)

Because he, again, skips context. Per a 2021 article:

"Mercedes-Benz was the most profitable car company last year, putting nearly $26 billion on the bottom line. But last year Mercedes spun off its heavy-truck business and booked that as a $12.3 billion profit. That’s a one-time windfall event that’s not going to happen again. So, if you strip that out Mercedes would move down to sixth place.

Ranking second is Toyota, with tidy net profit of more than $19 billion, and Ford is right behind it with $17.9 billion. But last year Ford boosted its profits with a one-time windfall of Rivian stock worth more than $8 billion. Take that out and Ford would move from third to seventh place."

Source:https://www.wardsauto.com/industry-news/numbers-tell-story-who-s-best-car-company-world

That covers ALL companies and ALL cars (ICE and EV), while yours deals with just EV related margins. Either one puts Daimler farther down than claimed. Case closed.

Moving on back to the RAM...

50 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla can still cut prices by $5,000 per car

Well that's a neat trick seeing as how they just did a few months ago and it led to what's in the article above, regarding their production versus sales. In other words, it didn't lead to more sales.

52 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Also Tesla only has 4 models, vs most of the companies ahead of them in sales have 20-30 models.

Again with the apples and oranges.

I wonder just how much more "brand image" Tesla will have left with incidents like this @smk4565?

https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/04/06/if-youre-a-tesla-owner-employees-might-be-sharing-your-camera-recordings

If I was a Tesla, I would light that company up, legally speaking. 

3 hours ago, David said:

Seems media is now comparing the new generation Prius Prime to what they believed was the best version of this kind of car, the Chevrolet VOLT. Volt had 53 miles of EV range compared to the new Prius Prime with 44 miles of EV range.

Review: 2023 Toyota Prius Prime plug-in reboots Volt formula (greencarreports.com)

Miles on EV mode isn't the only reason why they called it that. Overall, it is a much better car than it replaces and would be nicer overall than the Volt, at this point.

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

GM also had a bad Q1 in 2022.  But GM did beat Toyota in Q1, so it was a good quarter for GM.

And? Most everyone had a struggle with 2022. Just set the bar back down. You don’t get to move it with your endless excuses. Fact if that if it was a loss instead of the gain that it is, you’d be tagging them for it. Meanwhile, proof of Tesla demand drops are given and you are eerily silent. 

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Model 3/Y sales are up nearly 40% in Q1 and those have been around like 5 years.  Why aren't Chevrolet or Toyota up 40%?

Really? That’s your latest apples to oranges comparison. 
 

That is utter horse$h! and you know it but let me spell it out for you. 
 

The Model 3 has FAAAAAR less overall competition than any ICE model from Toyota or Chevrolet. It is interesting to note that GM saw an 18% bump in the 1st quarter of this year but hey, I guess it’s easier to cherry pick just one model and compare it against unrelated models. 
 

Good grief.