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@oldshurst442 I think you make a good argument comparing X4 and Mach E. IMPO the difference is that X4 is luxury crossover from premium brand and Mach E supposed to be auto for the masses. The fact is that they are priced similarly shows that at least this point all EVs are more of a luxury vehicles, than mass market ones, even though majority of them don't have the "luxury" feel. I do have to say, when I was at local Ford dealership last week, they had couple Mach E. I couldn't sit inside but from outside the interior looked nice, definitely better than Tesla Y. I am not sure I would call it luxurious though.

You love to talk like politician, in general terms and slogans. I am curious to see if you will follow your words with action, hopefully within next year, to bring humanity closer to future as you say. I don't think at this point that there are many people arguing that EVs are the future. I think the biggest argument here how close this future is and how economically feasible to switch completely to EVs in 15 years or so.

No assumptions, you said that average income in US is $31k and average car price is $37k. It is not even close to comparison of average income in India and average car price there, especially compared to EV price. Seems pretty straight to me. Also, regarding ICE vehicle price, people forget that pricing in the last few years jumped significantly because active safety became standard, which added a big chunk to the price of the vehicles. And honestly I could care less about what you think is BS or not. I don't think it is deflection because I expect people to put action behind their words, period.

Isn't it exactly what we are trying to say here? And you and David are trying to prove us wrong? I think that statement is pretty much summarize the discussion of the last 100 pages. Personally, and I said that before, I think EVs are the future. It is just there are still significant amount of issues to be resolved before EVs will be able to really replace ICE and go mainstream. I am just trying to look at things realistically, instead through rose colored glasses like some people here. And also on personal note, if I am not mistaken I am the only one on this forum who at least owns a hybrid vehicle.

The difference is you and David are calling people last century people, stuck in the past, backward people etc for criticizing anything said against EVs. Even though I think majority of people here raise very reasonable issues and questions with EVs (except maybe ocnblu). You guys are such great proponents of EVs that I think it is only appropriate to expect for you to put actions behind your words. I think it is very different from loving a Corvette and not buying it. Even in that case I would say if someone is a great proponent of lets say sports cars and never had one, I would call that person out. Because you can find a sports car for any budget.

New season on Netflix of Formula 1: Drive to Survive https://www.netflix.com/title/80204890?s=a&trkid=13747225&t=cp Really good show

Of course I am comparing apples to apples. EVERY EV vehicle in US is at least $12k-15k more expensive than comparable ICE vehicle. Considering that majority of cars in India are bare bones because most people can't afford fancy features, the EV price disparity becomes even bigger. In any case this argument leads nowhere. Meanwhile, I am really looking forward to yours and David's reviews of EV vehicles you are going to buy soon.

You kidding, right? The majority of vehicles sold is around $2k-4k. It is nowhere close to over 10k. Hmmm, $31k vs $37k $2k vs $19k cheapest EV What is my point ?....

Median income in India is $2120 a year. Please, tell me more that they don't want to buy regular cars and simply prefer to buy bikes.

This is not because they PREFER bikes over cars or care much about environment. This is because majority of people CAN'T AFFORD to buy a car and support the expenses. Big differences between people buying electric bikes here and there. Just above in my comment I had a link where it says the majority of India best sellers are well below $10k. Care to show the source of your information?

His point might be extreme, but he was right in the fact that majority of vehicles sold in India are well under $10k. Do you really think they will switch to EVs in major numbers when the cheapest EV is at least 3-4 times the cost?

The economy moves humanity forward. All we argue is that at the moment EVs, industrial or commercial are not making economical sense. What made humanity move from horses to cars is not the fancy expensive early cars but cheap, accessible to majority of people Model T. Also, while EVs are much more efficient than ICE cars, the battery technology and especially rare materials it requires makes the possibility of truly replacing on a large scale all ICE is a very questionable possibility at the moment. When better battery technology will become COMMERCIALLY and widespread available it might drastically change things. We are not there yet. You can say all you want how much forward thinking man you are, but you not driving an EV vehicle yet. Neither not ONE big supporters of EVs on this forum.

Highest selling car in India: Maruti (Suzuki) have few similar models that sold 1.75 million cars in 2019. The average price: $3k to $4k US dollars depending on the model. Highest selling EV in India: Tata Nexon EV - Starting price $19k US dollars They sold few thousand cars so far in 2021 Sources: • Top selling cars in India 2019 | Statista Maruti Suzuki Alto 800 Price in India | Maruti Suzuki Alto 800 Reviews, Photos & Videos | India.com Tata Nexon EV Becomes India’s Best-Selling Electric Car For 2020: Garners Over 63% Market Share (drivespark.com) Good enough? How about US market comparison:

The solution is very clear. If I were on the market for Mach 1 I would just need to look a little farther than my local dealer and there you go - Mach 1 BELOW MSRP only 10 miles from were I live. This dealer would get my business. 2021 Ford Mustang Mach 1 in Red Bank, NJ | New York City Ford Mustang | George Wall Ford Lincoln

You simply charge it overnight with diesel generators, problem solved!

It is not gouging if there will be a person willing to pay that kind of money for this car. It is called demand and supply. I would say gouging is when people sell necessary for livelihood items during shortage, like people were selling masks and hand sanitizer 10-20 times the real price during the beginning of pandemic. Mach 1 is basically a luxury item, not something someone needs to survive.

In a year they will be selling for MSRP or less. Even Shelbys were going for MSRP after the first year and this is not as special as Shelby.

So what happened to No Politics rule? ....

I have been at local dealership over the weekend. Saw first Mach 1. Was fully loaded and dealer marked it up another $10k as "market adjustment" up to $70k total. Simply crazy.

So how long will be to pay off price difference between ICE Escape and Mach E? EVs don't make financial sense at the moment either.

I don't think your comparison is relevant. You said Hybrids vs EV and than you compared Corolla to Prius. Here is another comparison: Base Ford Mach E - 230mi range, 255hp, RWD $44k Toyota RAV4 Prime - 42mi EV range, almost 600 mi hybrid range, AWD, 302hp, $39k I know which one I will choose at this point

Blue is my favorite color. But I like my combination better: blue and gunmetal grey

Is it too far to just have a road trip and ride it back?

Sabine Schmitz, Queen of the Nurburgring and Former Top Gear Presenter, Dies at 51 Sabine Schmitz, Queen of the Nurburgring and Former Top Gear Presenter, Dies at 51 (thedrive.com) Whoever watched Top Gear old and new, knows she had great personality and was a terrific race driver. She will be missed.

@Drew Dowdell Great looking bike. I love the look of standard naked bikes. Congrats!