regfootball

anything you can tell us about the NAV, DVD, audio etc. would be cool.

Well, with the Jetta, its VW's staple product, so since it sells a lot, it also has a full lineup and covers a very wide price swath. The Golf does as well, but it doesn't appeal to as many buyers due to its hatchback configuration, and the hatch stigma (which many in the US still equate to 'should be low priced'. I think its important if someone is shopping the Jetta or Golf line that they should determine what is most important to them when shopping and try to narrow down which of the VW's they are evaluating rather quickly. I would guess most Jettas sold the last couple years have been at lower price points and have gone out the door in leasing specials. A Jetta S or SE five cylinder is pretty well equipped for what you pay (or lease for) and has decent performance to correspond with it. But there is a tipping point where you can move up to say, a Ford Fusion for equal or little more cash....heck, several of the mid sizers....Mazda6, Altima, Camry, Malibu...KIZASHI. And that is a personal preference. But I don't think the Jetta's handling and acceleration and ride are good enough to offset the benefit of at least surverying what that little bit more will get you. The Jetta can even be had as a turbo (wolfsburg) which actually is a good value, but a really loaded Jetta encroaches even on the Passat and CC sport. I know the CC is drop dead I want to have that car, while the Jetta is merely just a Jetta. Of course if diesel and mpg are important to you then that decision is a lot easier to reason. Same if you want a nice tidy wagon. But you really pay through the arse for that incremental mpg increase, or the larger cargo hold (which is prevalent on many crossovers or larger wagons and sedans in the market currently for the same, to less, or just a little more money). For example, if cargo is your thing, you really could reason that a Subaru Outback or even a Pontiac Vibe (RIP) is a better value purchase. Or if saving fuel money is your thing, a cobalt is faster and saves a lot of up front money as well. A focus will get you almost the same actual mpg. Of course if you are merely a sucker for the nicer interior of either of these cars, perhaps that is a justification enough. With regards to the Golf, I have similar feelings and at least with the base five cylinder, I only see a value equation with the absolute base car and even then I don't think the engine or handling elevates the car enough to make it a no brainer, not when there are so many other good cars and the Mazda3 out there. Really all the base Golf and Jetta SE do is make you want the turbo........kaching. there goes the price. Especially the Golf, you'll either want the TDI (apparently has the GTI's handling) so you can have at least the handling with your diesel. Or you pay for the GTI and you get power with your handling. Which begs me to ask, why can't I get one VW with handling, mpg, and power all in one package that is not north of 25k? TO me that is where any value equation to many VW's break down. There's a lot of good cars around 20k that the Golf and Jetta have a harder time competing with...they hold their own, and a Jetta S and SE are what I would term good values. But the assets VW promotes primarily apply to the higher priced Jettas and Golfs and its a tougher sell. I would say the uniqueness of the VW product, at least I think these are cars that have enough appeal that as long as they are not in the shop you will be proud to own and drive after the first year in the payment book. And for most cars these days that is enough to say they have value and to endorse them. You'll like to look at it, and if you don't judge it harshly or by exceptionally tough criteria, then you should be satisfied and feel like your money is well spent. The carefree maintenance and high resale should help your feelings in that regard. I would just say drive at least 5 other cars in comparison first.

I should probably bookend this, and try to be quick. In my test drive the Golf base and Jetta TDI had very similar feel in the suspension and steering. To reiterate also, it was COLD out, and maybe this contributed to what i found a rather stiff and harsh ride....as in no suspension compliance and lots of thunking over bumps. Almost like the old GM trick of stiff suspension to make it seem sporty, with the chassis taking all the shots. I think I will give it the benefit of the doubt and reserve final judgment till another drive. What I do recall from a previous Jetta test was sort of a choppy nervousness (not much just a little) in the ride, and I think this is simply a car with a short wheelbase that you just feel it more and it works the car more. Both cars felt undertired; the Golf had steel wheels and base tires, and the Jetta had alum wheels but i doubt they had performance tires. All in all I was sort of surprised as the steering felt a little lifeless, and lacked weight and feel. It felt kind of insubstantial, as if the whole steering assembly felt not quite built for the long haul. Of course, some other small cars feel this way also, most of them in fact. I was just surprised I perceived it on the VW's. I wished the steering had been quicker as well. There was more road and chassis noise than I thought should have been there as well. I will say the roadgoing probably at least in the upper tier of cars like this....and again I will need a warmer weather ride to wring them out. But I don't think one who is looking for a 'sporting car' ought to hastily pick one of these two VW's without a really long and honest test ride. These two cars are built for urban comfort. Not super handling (like a GTI apparently?). Which kind of brings me to the next step, is it a must buy and do you get what you want and is it worth what you pay?

the escape, outlander have the best cargo areas from what i could tell in my own sampling of these vehicles. apparently the terrain's turning radius is 4 feet bigger than a tahoe. now that is not good, i guess, but the wheelbase is 112 inches and that is a partial contributor. the terrain's sliding seat is a huge asset. C/D's test is all about skidpad, acceleration, etc. to me, in this class, function and comfort and durability and solidity are the key. duh a lighter vehicle is going to be more tossable, but part of the appeal of SUV is the feeling of heft. people buying SUV's are more apt to look for the best cruiser than one that will lap the nurburgring. i will say this, i think the outlander has the most flexible and convenient cargo and seating arrangements, although it lacks the sliding seat. to be honest any of the vehicles tested except maybe the escape or mariner or whatever could reside at the top of the scorecard, it would only depend on what the weighting criteria are. as an example, the suzuki was the only one with a real 4wd system. doesn't that count? the ford has sync. the outlander has a 3rd row and flapfold tailgate. the tiguan has no cargo space. the crv is slow and feminine. the RAV is tinny and cheap. the forester is plain old junk if you actually take the time to drive one.

those look like snow tires, can you confirm if those are stock tires? or at least they look like they have an aggressive outer tread for all seasons if that's what they are.

Hyundai is the new Toyota.

can you believe there are 2,079 people who bought the crosstour? OUCH i may have an ugly in my garage but i surely didn't pay honda premium dollars to get it......

no i was going to blast it on its looks.

I like seeing the Legacy and Outback move up the charts because they fixed what was wrong with the product and kept what was good and they sell it at a price that does not gouge the customer. however, the forester sucks and should not sell like it does. Tribeca is getting its asshandedtoit.

hate the CUBE. HATE IT. look at the Maxima rebound? wow i never would have expected that. Nissan must really have loyal customers because their product is kind of dull these days......

truthfully, the Mazda6 IS NOT pulling its weight. esp when you consider the Altima Camry and Accord are all lame. the crossovers are keeping the doors open for Mazda. And of course, the MAzda3.

I acutally think the CC is smokin and VW's only real lusty looking car. Jetta doing well. I even think the numbers on the Routan are good. They have to discount the snot out of them to get them to move, but anyways they put Nissan out to pasture.

the wagon is much heavier than the sedan, which might explain the seeming lack of gusto.

i was mad, C/D has the Terrain ranked 6th in a new issue with a cute ute comparo. they tested the v6 BTW. RAV4-1, Tiguan-2, CRV-3, Forester-4, Outlander-5, Terrain-6, Grand Vitara-7, Escape-8 (where was the Rogue)? i have driven the forester it was possibly the worst vehicle I have ever driven. I rented a RAV4 and it sucked too. CRv's are not all that and a box of rocks. I liked the 09 Escape I test drove once. The terrain was done an injustice. this is not a sport sedan category.

Yeah I need to finish this up. In a bit. In the meantime, I got my Car and Driver today. Inside is a test of the Golf TDI. Handles mostly like the GTI but it lacks acceleration. In general. So I hope to test one myself some day. Perhaps the TDI will take care of the ride and handling issues I promise I will get to.

i like the x terra myself. i've liked the quest but its not been reliable. the sentra SE-r from 8 yrs ago was fun.

Nissan has been riding the early decade success of the Altima a bit too long now. Nissans large SUV and truck biz is toast. Maxima and Infiniti not strong. Sentra not up with the best. 370 is a great car but not a huge market steamroller. Murano and Rogue do well but not gonna take down Honda or Toyota. Nissan needs to be worried to be honest. Subaru is gaining sales and Mazda is arguably keeping their product fresh more completely. Nissan's boom came on their specialty products that are now in market segments that are tanking REALLY bad. Once the Altima goes stale they may be in huge trouble.

ok, twas the convertible.

buicks new product barrage is crucial and cannot fail. if it does, buick is toast in 5 yrs....and maybe GMC as well.....

Target Children's multivitamin.....no lie. I want to make up for the kids poor diet and make sure she gets enough vitamins, and in order to get her on a daily routine we started getting her the target equals to the flintstones. thing is, she will take them! so at least i know she gets iron and folic acid and beta carotene. If you check the label, they get most of what the adult vitamins get you. in the winter i will get C and D supplements. D especially can help fend off flu etc. 2000mg of D to blast it out. sometimes to make them edible i grind up the C and D and mix it in with smoothies. I used to take GNC vitamins but honestly they messed me up. too strong, and yes the nasty pee. Plus i would get ill like i was poisoned. the target kids vitamins are pretty cost effective too.

Interior. Recent history has shown that despite what can occasionally be called a not exactly bulletproof reliability record for their vehicles, VW does indeed get lots of praise for its interiors, and to this I agree with very much. The weird thing is that for 2010, the Golf gets all new interior bits, while the Jetta gets the same new IP, radio, and climate controls, integrated into mostly the same dash it has had for the last few years. The Jetta I drove had the vinyl -cough- leatherette seats, the Golf had the new cloth. I found both to be nice....with one beef on the Golf's seats. The seats were in both cases very supportive even if I felt the seat bottoms were a bit insubstantial, the shape and bolstering were very good. What I didn't quite resolve was why the Golf's seats seemed so much narrower and really forced my legs together. It really was kind of uncomfortable. I did not notice that in the Jetta. You kind of need some room there, really! I appreciated the power recline function present in the Jetta's seat. The old German diehard rotary recline wheel was at the helm in the Golf, and it just really depends if you like it or are simply used to it from other German vehicles. What was important was I seemed to for the most part be able to adjust the seat to my liking, with the handy height ratchet and the sometimes clumsy forward and back grab handle at the front of the seat that is typical VW. What really I found to be a knockout for the class on these VW products were the gauges and instrumentation and the new radio and climate controls. Just the quality and simplicity of them. The gauges in particular, with the blue lighting, chrome accents, and repeat digital display in the center (you will find you may not look at the speedometer at all with the digital display right there!). Just very well done and right in your eye's path....and framed by a dash made of impeccable plastics look and quality on the Golf and 98 percent the same on the Jetta. The radio is logically segmented and laid out, has very clear display and is just refreshing to look at. Similarly simple is the climate control. The knobs felt a bit flimsy and cheap, but that was not overly so for what I have seen in the segment elsewhere. I did not play with the turn stalks enough to grasp all they could do or how they did the cruise and wipers and such. They were a tish hard to see and find but they felt nice. It seemed like it might take a bit to acclimate to what was needed to do with them. On the Golf i totally loved the location of the mirror controls and window switches. All together, on the Golf especially, the controls were all where you wanted, simply laid out, and nice to look at and use. Everything is up high and in the line of sight and makes driving easier. The touch points and eye candy for the driver and primary passenger is all very well done and I believe this is the main virtue of the VW cars. I could simply go on for how good the seat heaters are even. Really a big plus on a negative degree day! One downside, I was let down by the cheap feel of the new steering wheel in the Golf. Since it did not have the multifunction switches or leather wrap, it just seemed like it was missing so much. It was thinner and lacked the decorative accents and attractive features of the uplevel wheel that is standard in the GTI and Golf TDI and higher levels of the Jetta. It really seemed downmarket compared to the rest of the interior and did not feel good in the hand. You just want the nicer wheel so bad you notice what you are missing so much! Passenger space is very good. Prior Jettas from early decade were majorly knocked for lack of passenger room. The future American Jetta will become larger still, but this Jetta and Golf seemed to me to provide good space and comfort for good sized people. Ingress and egress in the front is good for both cars. I think the door opening in the back of the Jetta is tighter than I like although a huge improvement over the early decade. Long legged folks might protest leg space if the front folks have the seat back too far, but overall I think the space in this car is alright in that regard. Caveat.......a little later. Another recent drive, the Kia Forte, to me I believe had a little bit more girth and space and legroom front and back. The Jetta / Golf is definitely larger than a Focus (of which I drove for 2 weeks back in 2008). It has a definite rear seat advantage over the Cobalt. Trunk space in the Jetta is exceptional. Large opening, great height, width, and depth, and it is trimmed out very nicely. The Golf's boot since its a hatch is smaller, but it is still very useful sized and of course you can expand the cargo hold by folding down the seats. GM fans may want to postulate about the size relation of the future Chevy Cruze. I believe the Cruze will have a trunk the size of the Jetta, and the interior room at least of the Forte. In that regard I think the Cruze may turn out to perceived as having possibly even more space than the Jetta overall. We will find out in a few months. Next part will be ride and drive and handling and overall impression and comment on value and position with VW and sub and compact class.

So, in general to repeat above, the VW products have good powertrains, although the five cylinder and diesel each have some things about them that would make one hesitate and want to consider other vehicles they compete against. On the five cylinder in addition to the comments above, that engine has also been slightly knocked for fuel economy that is a little less than to be expected in this segment. Perhaps it is a tradeoff of the higher horsepower, or less expensive, less exotic engine. In the diesel, the tradeoff is the running characteristics of a diesel to a nation that is not entirely familiar with the motor type or how it operates best, as well as its initial premium expense and relative obscurity. VW has obviously done the most with mainstream diesel in the US recently and I think personally in order for diesel to truly have a chance of proliferating again in other brands, VW has to do the dirty work and sell bunches of these TDI's. If the diesels take off again for VW, it may convince the buying public as a whole that diesel may again be headed mainstream. I am not certain the USA is really ready to follow through whole heartedly aside from all the hype people spout on car sites about 'Ford needs the diesel Fiesta' and so on. If the manufacturers really laid it all out there, I am curious just exactly how many consumers other than VW, and a few BMW's, Mercedes, and maybe Volvos would gain any traction in the market. All right. Exterior and Interior. Most of us are extremely familiar by now with the latest Jetta. Not quite yet refreshed as the Golf has been for 2010, yet the change is minimal for the Golf vs. the outgoing Rabbit. I found the new Golf front end updates to be extremely attractive and look forward to them making the Jetta sedan next year. The Golf I drove was quite the stripper in dull gray with wheel covers....it was not as sharp as the red Golf with alloys and sunroof in the showroom. In any case, the exterior presentation of the Jetta has been grade A for awhile now, and the Golf you can say is just as good. Both cars are a bit dull and conservative, but in a very precise and pleasing way...not a hodgepodge sort of blandness you'd find on say, any Toyota. Obviously style is an individual thing, but I would gladly drive either the Golf or the Jetta and be happy with its tidy conservative looks. The GTI of course is the more flamboyant Golf, and is available if you want. I can't say I found any particular exterior details that wowed me, although I really liked the Jetta's aluminum wheels, and the new grille and headlights of the Golf and the integration of small turn signal repeaters in the Golfs (small and oddly shaped) rearview mirrors. I always like the VW logo used as a hatch release on the back, very clever.

I would tend to agree with both statements as I have driven a few vehicles in the compact and subcompact segment. I will elaborate on your engine comment in a future post. I did not expect I would go 'frontpage' LOL. If I had known that, I might have asked for a format outline to do a review in, instead of a 4 am hackjob! LMAO.

it will become an 'Americanized' VW....i.e. decontented and diluted, no longer a true German car.

a nice feature for free and it's still lighter than the nox. Call it an advantage.