regfootball

be my guest then

the styling is not bad. just not groundbreaking or unique.

viper, i am glad hyundai revived that segment, but imho, they failed in two key areas.......1- styling, its too derivitive. 2- the base engine could have and should have been larger. a 2.5 would be more appropriate. my other reservation here is for the v6 money on the hyundai, a WRX with ALL wheel drive makes more sense if you want to talk competition. and the rx8, which aside from lame rotary engine, is a better choice for not a lot more money.

well car and driver for one said the genesis lacked refinement and needed finishing school and was impressed with the camaros refinement. but you are saying the hyundai is all about refinement. hmmmmmmmmm. and you talk about 'having facts'. its interesting to ponder where the hyundai might be underengineered. using 3500# x .56 nose heavy front of the genesis (BMW fans would heckle that all day long) and 3800# .52 camaro, the hyundai actually would have more weight on the front end. that 300 pounds extra the camaro is tarting around in the rear is not merely explained by wasteful use of weight. it also makes me wonder why a car like the gen coupe if it is supposed to be in the vein of the light 240sx type cars from the past, why is the front end such a brick? Sounds like inefficient engineering to me on hyundai's part. and i'm sorry but if the 240sx and gen coupe and other cars in this vein was such a popular segment, why is this the only car in it? there's a reason the other rwd cars are bigger and sturdier, and why the other lighter cars are fwd.

any way to take a cobalt ss and put the g5 front end and badges on it?

cobalt ss sedan going away? damn i f-cking am beginning to hate GM/OM and task force.

BTW when do we officially have to say Buicks have the road manners of the best Chinese cars?

Buicks should be able to outhandle their Lexus counterparts and equal them in noise isolation. Maybe something in the vein of Audis where you get steering feel and handling prowess but its not as the buff books would say 'sublime'. European feel but a little softer overall than a BMW. Maybe Buick going ahead needs those T type options to come back. Make the mase buick a better lexus and tune the t type options to something that can at least dance a little like a BMW.

that still really is the main draw for hyundai buyers, some sort of concept of a deal, coupled with 'that big warranty' (GM's powertrain warranty is transferrable) and the whole new and up and coming thing. its a demographic thing. fans of the asian cars grew up in a culture that insisted they hate US brand cars. strike one. two, if you are younger, you ain't gonna have much cash, so obviously for those who can't get credit themselves, or need to keep the price down, any car with more band for the buck will seem like it was custom made for them. it's ATTAINABLE. three, they were told US brand cars were unreliable but its so funny because fans of the asian coupes are younger as opposed to many camaro fans and honestly how many of them have been driving long enough to say any brand is unreliable. if you have never owned a brand new car, or made car payments and been burned by having to make a spendy fix, if all you are judging reliability on is consumer reports or heresay, and what you have to pay to keep the 7 year old car you bought running, then its flawed thinking to begin with. to some degree you can honestly empathize with someone in their 50's who owned some of GM's really crappy stuff in the 70's and 80's and put up with it over and over again. but those who make decisions without a basis of experience (I'm sorry, but you can't judge ownership experience of say, today's GM cars, based upon the fact you bought an 8 year old Olds Intrigue and the manifold gasket went out or something). You didn't own the car in the prime of its stay. Any car 5+ years old is going to need propping up. And likewise, those who thought they would try toyota because everyone said toyotas don't break, and then got a tundra with exploding camshafts or camrys that couldn't shift or sludged up etc. So many people obviously recall the 5 GM cars etc. they needed to fix because most cars need fixing. my sister used to bitch about ever having to fix her beretta. But she'll never mention how she had the effing thing for like 14 years. If everyone owned 8 toyotas chances are over time you wouldn't have people glowing about them either. Ultimate point, if you were taught to bash US cars and had not yet found out that other brands are mortal too, that whole mancrush bit on the up and comers thats why that is there. A fashion based culture, whatever is the newest look. It does sort of make sense though that Pontiac should have focused more on driver hardware, but that was just GM at its finest. Trying to pass half executed off as the real deal. History will look back on this decade and find that the car buyers were extremely savvy to detail and quite spoiled in terms of features and technology. I am wondering if 2000-2006 or 7 won't go down as perhaps they greatest if not most prolific era in the auto industry. cause trust me, based upon the mandates being passed down by the kremlin DC, cars like this hyundai will be a luxury. by the way, why didn't hyundai make the 4 popper a 2.5? woulda made more sense to make a 2.5 turbo with 300hp and save the 100 pounds compared to the large nose heavy v6. the ecotec gets 300hp with the stage whatever kit. the lighter 4 with ecotec power would turn the same times as the v6 scoupe coupe and wouldn't have 56% of the weight on the front end like good BMW's have.-sarcasm-

at a minimum any small buick should equal the size of the jetta and have equal or better interior. emulate a loaded jetta.

ram is a nice truck. so are the GM and Ford.

too bad the crv is slow. you think honda would come into this century with transmissions one of these days.

i am pretty sure GM could squeeze the hp on the 3.6 to about 320 without much work. its well documented why the camaro is larger. suck it up, its here for at least 5 years in its present form. thing is, its a monster that will take any engine you put in it. GM has a great history of tuning its cars over time and i have every confidence we will see magneto shocks on it and such. they may find ways to trim 100 pounds. most people who have ever made a car payment without dad or mom co-signing on the loan would be quite impressed with the world class capability of the car. it will be interesting to see the age and credit demographic of the tiburon XL.

a year ago focus were selling at list. dropped my trex at the dealer this morning and there was a focus there, 4 grand off. i know even prius have been slashed in price. if gas goes up again, yes people will do reactionary things. but basically, very few people want the small car in the US. they only buy them for operating cost reasons 90% of the time. its the endless cycle. GM gets bitched at for not making small cars profitably, but truth is people still can't pay what they need to make them at a profit.

driving an HHR SS with the turbo, i find it odd they call this thing rough. i was shocked at how smooth the ecotec, a gm four cylinder, was.

by the way, motor trend is going bankrupt, what do they know?

on this, we agree.

and someone here has admitted the hyundai basically just competes in the class which is the whole point of my argument. they can compete now. why is this being trumpeted from the mountaintop? Others have been doing this routinely for years. Buy the car because you like the car and its the best choice. Not only because its the new pretty face at the bar. New does not equate to superior just because it showed up for the game finally. I guess if you like coupes styled in the asian vein then maybe it really is a big accomplishment, even if its like saying 'my kid can pee in the toilet and not miss'

corvette has no backseat, fiberglass body panels, and a wood floor. its space frame is a much less extensive design than a complete steel unibody camaro that is much larger. add a backseat and all that to a corvette and it will get heavier too. bmw routinely sends porkers to the market as does mercedes and we don't see criticism there. the only bmw that is efficient to its size for weight are the most basic 3 and 5 series.

less expensive also

if you subtract 200 pounds of extra horsepower and airbags and extra frame for crash testing. crash a mid nineties camaro and crash the new one and you'll know the difference.

yes, however the cobalt especially i bet can keep darn close with that hyundai go check R/T some of the times the cobalt posted on the raceway compared to the competition.

camaro fans need and require that heavy chassis that can handle ungodly horsepower and durability requirements. some nut job somewhere is gonna supercharge a v8 to 800hp etc. and expect that the car is up to the task. zeta can take it. otherwise you would not see the cops in LA wanting to buy them. i welcome anyone to amp up that scoupe coupe and see what its made of. supercharge that beast to 600hp and see if the back end self destructs. the significance here is that hyundai actually built something that can be part of the party and is a big improvement over the tiburon. another good looking woman at the bar showed up through the door. nothing to get your shorts a tented about IMHO. i bet a mid 90's prelude or a current cobalt SS might give the scoupe coupe a pretty good battle for 95% of the drivers. question, have we seen a comparo yet between the Tiburon XL and the 370z? that will be the one to make the masses shut up.

i'm not missing that point. all i am saying is this overlap is tending to be misrepresented by the journalist rags. my points above about the camaro being able to handle a much higher level of performance is not being understood. lets turn it back on the hyundai. you can buy a new mustang v6 for under 20k. using this litmus test, the hyundai is way overpriced. once ford replaces that base six with the 3.7, the hyundai with the v6 becomes irrelevant as competition because its too pricey or its four popper can't keep up. the only reason again which is the point i am making, hyundai finally developed a basic competence to do a car like this. woohoo. there is nothing relevant about glorifying this car aside from they finally were able to do this for the first time, that is, equal the performance of the same type of car that other companies have for DECADES. the comparison is a good study to compare the lighter hyundai vs the heavier camaro and the contrasts in appraoch, but my contention here is a little too much love for the 'upstart' only because they are a new face and new to the game. Any driver in a mid nineties supra could still whack the $h! out of this hyundai, assuming the frame and driveline and suspension don't self destruct over time.

thank you, exactly agree but people are missing that point.