turbo200

all GM has going for it is the hype it can build by pushing dollars into marketing. dollars that could have been used more wisely if even six years ago when prius was on its way to being a big success and was already a good PR venture for toyota, they had reacted. oh but don't blame GM, they're just doing thier usual business and being heavily and latently and lethargically reactive, which is what got us to this situation where GM is being supported by the taxpayers. you know the situation in which they have no cash thanks to profoundly stupid business practices, like oh not building cars that were competitive and that the market was reacting to in the first place.

what's your definition of the cobalt then?

driving a hybrid and owning one, it really does feel more technical and advanced than normal cars. those gadgets, the interior displays, and now huge mileage really all contribute to a new age, cyber feel. the kinks that need to be worked out are the less than normal driving experience issues, like brick-like brakes that offer no feel whatsoever [purported to be improved in this new car]. the other thing that needs to happen is hybrid systems/efficient electric machines need to eventually take on more universally appealing shapes/designs.

Prius is the new Camry in many ways, and that works just fine for toyo's legacy. it's pretty silly that many here can't appreciate and admit to the improvements here. the mileage figures are unbeatable, and here I am yet again, asking the same question, where is the GM competition to this mainstream car being bought up by plenty of retail customers. they can figure out how to make a great malibu and camaro, but chevy's lineup elsewhere is no comparison to giant evil successful japanese toyota. this car is impressive in person. it's dyanmic and the rearward motion that flows into the taillights connecting the roofline to the shoulder line is really well conceived. along with that the new front end is more toyota familiar and less upscale than i'd like it to be, but it's attractive, a lot moreso than before, and has a lot of good character to it. the side profile is so much better than before, surfacing is significantly improved, character lines give the design balance and a sporty character. really, unless someone is ardently biased, I can't see how anyone couldn't admit this design is significantly improved. though i have seen the insight at an auto show, i glanced it carelessly because it really wasn't all that impressive, don't think that will help it much, even in the less design-centric hybrid shopping field. the interior in toyota's has been a source of undue criticism here. these interiors work really well in person and are a marked departure from what we're all used to. i prefer progress as opposed to companies that just recycle the same ideas from before, and in GM's case, poorly. these new interiors are really arty and interesting, high quality as well. lastly, the prius is here. that's more than can be said of volt, which as with everything GM, is a work in progress. just have faith, just believe it's coming. with the camaro that worked well, but they had to hit a price point. i think the volt will be worth the wait, but the wait is so damn endless.

it looks serious and beautiful. very substantial, elegant, great form. it's easily the best of the luxury/standard class hatches, well maybe [euro] focus is still as endearing or moreso. i think it could work as a buick.......if buick suddenly became a progressive brand, and if it was accepted in urban centers/coastal communities, or americans in the midwest became suddenly adept and understanding of the inherent flexibility and desirability or a slickly styled hatch. the styling americans have seen in hatches has not always been good or attractive....this could be one to help turn the tide of perception against them.

everytime i check back into one of these reviews, it amazes me how right General Motors got the powertrains. they are perfect, not a flaw there, far from it, these are the mountain for all other affordable sports coupes to climb in terms of affordably refined powertrain. that being said, for me the definition of the camaro should and could have been tweaked lightly to meet the demands of today's consumer, demands that perhaps were more optomistically just a glimmer in 2006 when this car was being developed. GM slightly missed an opportunity. even so, this camaro is fantastic in every way, and its presence alone will be a huge factor in buying decisions. i love everything they've done with the packaging to make it more appealing. wheels, RS, halos, even steelies all together define what amounts to GM's most perfectly imaged and marketed vehicle so far in the last decade. they need to go further now and start working on special editions, and two tones, aggressive packages, and the like. the camaro still will be the 100k dynamo GM wishes for. perhaps as far as 130k units, but that is being very very optomistic in this environment. maybe next year?...

as a mid 20k sports coupe, the camaro's interior quality is not just acceptable but worthy, and the rest of the car is so desirable there's no need to compromise, the car asks for none. as a mid 30k sports car, the Camaro has some room to grow into a true 3-series demolisher [in present form it's well on its way, and perhaps most of the 3-series line is already crushed, if not for that endlessly attractive face], but the interior quality is marginal at best.....the being said, the key is design. i like how edmunds put it, the exterior is so perfect in its aggression and retro-futurism, and the interior is like you've gone to another century too, and not in a bad way. people griping over camaro's interior quality need to get with it, this is an exciting car to own.

leave the gran prix and personal vendettas out of this, no sense lingering in the past when looking at GM's current design. there's no question the G8's stance is its best feature, as is the case with BMWs....in all ways the G8/Commodore seeks to emulate a BMW 5-series as much as possible, saying one is good looking without the other is ignoring the simple fact that shape/form/stance are mostly exactly the same. detail differences is where the two change up, graphics on the BMW go for more upmarket and technical, while the same can be said for surfacing and transitions/curves. the pontiac as with the mechanical aspect is more straight up and less flourished....both are very good looking, ver very, but the BMW has an essence of forward looking design all to its own. it's amazing how fresh that bangle design has held up for so many years now. the main point though is the grille on the pontiac, it's drawn better than commodore's basic opening, so the pontiac is more interesting and makes a more dynamic face, however, the hood scoops prove an unnecessary addition. too big and noticeable for this class of car, i actually think the connection to other pontiacs through the nostrils hurts sales. people aren't looking for that kind of styling kink in this kind of car, this class of cars. people don't buy muscle sedans, they buy muscle coupes. however, that doesn't mean i personally don't find them good looking, i do see the point in drawing a more aggressive front end for pontiac, and that's why i appreciate what they did, even if in the end i wished they would have gone a more expensive route and drawn a grille that was more aggressive in the first place/.

how is buick a better save than pontiac. china aside, what equity does it have here making it worthy of the investment GM is going to put into it? I don't want a one line answer like Enclave proves buick still has life in them. I want credible evidence, and thorough plans and details of forecasts for the future. personally, I can see evidence both ways, which leaves it up to product execution in an important segment, and redefining the brand with better focus.....GM has proven inadequate at this.

ok, showing my bias and emotion a little here -- G8 to charger comparisons are baseless. why? because of the most important factor: price!! $24,000 base price for charger, that's chevy impala territory which bases at $23,800. combined with fleet volumes that range in the 40-50%'s ......but that's another argument. let's stick to price. At $28,000, the advertised base price for the G8 compares to base tsx, base 9-3, s40, maxima, vw passat/cc,....the G8 fits in the old bonneville's price categroy much more than gran prix. i'd love to know how sales volumes compares to those cars. g8 is not at all priced in the mainstream, under $25k market. as far as the actual sales of the G8 go....we gotta look at pontiac relative to the competition. new mazda 6 v. G6. accord v. G6. compare torrent and g5 to the competition and it's clear the rest of ppontiac's brand is in shambles right now. at 28k, the g8 competes on its merits alone as much as on its brand strength/perception....

we all have to stop being small-minded. it's not ocnstructive to talk about this and say buick will automatically fail or it doesn't fit. none of that is very logical and it immediately discredits. i do happen to see the characteristics of a performance RWD car being able to fit the concept of an aggressive more sport tailored Pontiac better. however, I can also see a more luxurious sport-lite romantic conservative and enduring buick working off of this, the return of the gentlemen's car. what matters is the design is substantial, not a copy, something that looks good all over the world, that reaches back but also stands out as a classic. it's not that hard to do. following everyone else's trends like the lacrosse or creating a car that doesn't look like a buick in the case of the insignia is not the way to build a substantial recognizable design family. not saying those aren't good cars, cause they are. whatever GM works at in the future needs to be tailored for that design family, like volvo does, or audi, or nissan, or honda, or mercedes, or everybody else. GM is really the poorest company out there at managing brands and understanding the essence of a car.

Polo would have made a nice entry level model, but apparently VW is focusing on more "American market" vehicles, which means cheapened. what's interesting is Ford [and most everyone else] is going the opposite way, focusing in more expensive and efficient vehicles, yet covering more segments. fiesta will cover the current focus, ng focus will retain focus buyers as well as pull in from import corolla/civic/camcord buyers. vw is irrelevant [in america] an age of depressed volumes [though i love them] and opressed buyers. they aren't really needed here unless volumes rebound to the 14-15k arena [i believe they will].

i feel like buick has been more neutered design-wise for a longer time than Pontiac, and thus Buick has a longer hill to climb in perception and acceptance. pontiac has lacked any consistency whatsoever, but as many big misses they've had, they've also had some pretty nice rides [strictly speaking of the last two decades].

difference is the world's economy depends on banks' balance sheets looking good.

though I appreciate the pro-GM sentiment......people have a right to be angry with GM, it is after all taxpayer money that is keeping them alive because of problems created by themselves. honda and toyota [ford as well, and all the others] haven't gone asking for bailouts....only money from japan to loosen credit in America.

I was just gonna say that would get them nowhere. the city of detroit is being decimated [though to what extent I cannot know since I am not there].

before i get cat-calls on how i can make all these assumptions and what not: look at the pictures, this is not a radically divergent shape from Cruze, they could do much even with a similar shape to seperate luxurious from mainstream via sheetmetal changes, that I will give them the benefit of the doubt on. HOWEVER, we all know GM well enough to know they suck at this kind of thing. platform sharing is just not thier forte. they never manage thier resources well and tune the vehicles well to maximize segments, minimize overlap, maximize profit, efficiently use the capability of the platform, so on and so forth.

my bottom line....the article implies GM could allocate the funds better so as to serve the most profitable and volume market first, bring out the Cruze faster, since it's a mainstream hit and that's what GM needs now. i know i know, china is a big market and pays for itself yada yada. ignoring good product for the home market is a big part of the problem they're in.

without a doubt you've hit the head on the nail on two points. this is why GM gets picked on. meanwhile ford manages to build distinct and differently marketed vehicles like the C30 and Focus and Mazda 3 hatch on the same platform, along with thier euro minivans and the Kuga.......GM gives us the exact same sedan across two brands, potentially more............we all know they've done this in the past. they stretch thier resources too thin and to save money and focus on short term profit, they sacrifice the vehicle they're working on. i've learned to set low expectations and not hope anymore with GM. even though I want them to put effort into designing totally different interiors and using completely different aesthetic themes and use different materials and suspension tuning a la Audi A3 v. VW Golf in order to really differentiate the models, sell to different consumers, and build the brands.......even though this is what i want in an ideal world, they simply won't listen to me or to my good reason. GM, soon, it's gonna be over between us.

have you guys seen these in person? grille and face may be the worst feature of the venza, but it was one of the most impressive new vehicles at the auto show. rx continues as inoffensive and sport-lite as possible. they're not at all bad looking [and both slightly more enjoyable overall than equinox and srx though equinox's face is very appealing]........but this is a matter of personal opinion.

pretty unbelievable. reeks of second or third-to-last ditch effort. I wonder how big that partnership will get before this is all over. but that's a really interesting alliance. I want to see honda with someone good and big. that would be an ultimate combo, honda engineering with someone who is less functionality-centric and more form-centric

on a side note, I always knew the G8 would catch on. in many ways the consumer is very simple. they decide they wouldn't like to spend $30k of their hard earned money [or 20k, or 15k, and so on whatever the figure] until they see a very good reason to. one very good reason is a shape and design that is enduring and fresh and attractive....G8 has that quintessential combination. in fact from a design standpoint, i find the front end to be the weakest point and that's saying a lot because the front end has real attractive qualities [well the wheels are also a weak point]. G8 is going to continue to catch on as people become aquainted with the body lines. and who knows this may be the car car that saves Pontiac from extinction, if we get some actual damned reasonable executives up there [who could see what a lot of other people are seeing, that turning opels into buicks in america is a big mistake and those cars would be better served under the more mainstream and well-liked yet premium-positioned Pontiac]. G8 is a great car underneath and that is what will clinch the deal, but the first emotive operation we make as humans is being drawn to the car, and G8 does so in a way G6 could never dream of doing, since that shape was already derivative and uninvigorating [and the large and sometimes goofy face]. the G8 will continue to build on its success as more and more people discover it. of course, GM's marketing is doing no favors whatsoever. if ever there was a need for a car with 'Bullit' style customization packages, the G8 is that. if ever there was a dumb marketing move it was saying the G8 competes with BMW and calling it a day..... you've got to make it stand out on its own and then consumers will come and see how great the car drives.

one could easily surmise from these facts that the real argument is consumers and media turned away from GM product as they began to find it uncompetitive any longer. the result is it is not the brands themselves that are damaged or that GM needs to rid itself of. but the last vestiges of uncompetitive product. further evidence is every new product introduction GM makes where they are either entering a segment that is unpopularized by the competition [not too many competitors] like the large crossover segment, and every new intro that is a critical success, in both of these scenarios, GM has always had dramatic success. witness enclave, CTS, malibu, solstice/sky,... if we're just going to according to statistics and volume, GM is not so much a loser, but a victim of its own slow-moving innertia and the fight it must undertake to keep itself alive while steadily replacing the entire product line. statistics and volume figures prove GM is still acceptable en masse, in massive ways by consumers.....it just hasn't been able to quickly release all the reasonable product we fans have been egging them on for years to produce.

on the one hand those in favor of keeping the brands alive have historical references on thier side. when GM has successfully released product the consumer considered acceptable, GM's market share was huge and as recently as the '90's all of the divisions we're talking about sold much higher volumes and had a much higher percentage of the retail market. inclusively, it would be false to say GM was not the automatic choice of most consumers and not decidedly mainstream. when consumers and the media began to perceive GM as largely irrelevant and uncompetitive towards where the rest of the market and carmakers were going with thier product [coincidentally, towards the late '90's]; when people began to feel that GM wasn't updating thier line sufficiently relative to the updates the competition was recieving, then consumer share began to drastically erode....to where the situation was going from 30% share of the market in 1999 [and more than 35% in the early 90's] to where we are today and GM barely holding on to 21% of the overall market.

that sounds promising. i've always had hope in the man who campaigned on hope and integrity.