balthazar
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Everything posted by balthazar
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S-class actual paid base price is elusive. Oh, I realize they publish an MSRP of $95,905 (S550), but trucar lists the average transaction price as 87,522 for that model. PROBLEM IS, there is no reporting for options. s-class major options ~ sport pkg +1 6,650 sport pkg 5,900 Drvr assist 2,950 RR seat pkg 3,040 RR entertnmt 2,450 Active body cntl 4,090 Bang & Olufson 6,400 20" dubs 2,020 ...and a bunch more. Assumedly, most of these 4800lb road whales have a number of these options. Googling S550 window stickers show option loads between 15,000 and 30,000... removing them to extract a true 'base price' of the average transaction price (going with a mean of $22.5K in options) means the s-class --as far as what people are willing to pay-- starts around ...65K. I thought as much. So, $65-70K base for the Omega is smack dab in s-class territory (assuming they don't discount it as heavily as mercedes does)... and I for one think that's exactly where Cadillac should go. -
GM News: General Motors CEO Creates Team To Study Tesla
balthazar replied to William Maley's topic in General Motors
How the flaming hell does information like this get willingly released? -
S-550 manages to look rather dumpy for having the 'design real estate' to work with- disappointing. Ciel is 1000 times more sleek & looks larger with some decent rear overhang, but they are nearly identical :: C: 125/204 vs. M: 124/206. 205" is mid-size in my book... but if Cadillac can give the car Ciel-like proportions (it's 4" wider than the s-clss), that'd be pretty great.
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I can see you did not spend much time driving one. I have and it was nothing special. I've driven one, yes, so no; you 'can't see' here. 2 friends have 1st gen Tempests currently. But the claim was not that it was "special" but conversely, that it was insufficient. It was not. Same with this V4 proposal- it's not necessarily 'special', but it offers some considerable advantages worthy of a serious look. Very very little out there in automotive powerplants is "special", but most OEMs/consumers 'just' want reliable, economical & affordable.
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Pontiac Indy 4 "didn't go anywhere" because gas was 30 cents/gal and V8s were trending, not because of design problems with the Indy 4. By the same token, the early Tempest unibody 'didn't go anywhere' as it had the same lifespan as the 194 and was replaced with BOF in '64. That said, it would be interesting to see how well a V4 would perform WRT it's configuration.
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Pair of '64 Coupe deVilles, one coming out of retirement (fresh black paint, pieces recently missing) and a solid parts car.
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Dodge News: SRT Head Says Dodge Is Sticking Around
balthazar replied to William Maley's topic in Dodge
I don't believe it. Chrysler said the same thing WRT DeSoto for '61, and 6 weeks later they pulled the plug. The signs were all there; no more top-line series, no more hi-po engines, they even couldn't bother with model names. None of the same people/business climate is the same now as then, but the signs are right there- Viper, Ram & now the Caravan being pulled.... Dodge's time is definitely limited. What's left over (fiat & AR) aren't very compelling alternatives, unfortunately. -
Dealership costs for service is totally out of control. I related this before here- Chevy wanted $2200 to put new brakes lines on my 2500HD. Part of that cost was sitting on the floor with all 7 lines and hand-bending tubing to match. On a modern vehicle like this- there is really no room for an errant contour, esp if you intend to hit most of the factory retaining brackets. Meanwhile, I had CNC-bent stainless lines on my doorstep in 2 days for $299. These import vans beg the very pertinent questions of part supply time & cost- as commercial vehicles, they lose the company money when they are down.
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GM has had an 'empty bag' AFA competitive small van for years now, so obviously they "can" be left that way. Now, I do not mean to say they SHOULD, just that they ARE. OEMs frequently have empty slots in their portfolios- this is nothing new. Look at GM's minivan segment- dead for years & years & years- they abandoned that market. The point was : GM has been 'front line' in truck development for 50-some years, if there is money to be made here, built the best ROI product you can. Slapping a $500-1000 profit on a vehicle that's going to be offered by 5 other manufacturers simply with different IMP bumpers does not make for a long-term plan of success. We've seen ENOUGH short-term planning from GM.
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Except an obvious rebadge is at the bottom of effort among automotive programs. Unless you were thinking of some slip-shod Chinese knock-off, a rebadge, at best, can only be "enough" and never "more than enough". 1. Unique, groundbreaking product 2. 'in the pack' product 2. collaboration w/ another company 4. subpar product 5. well-done revamp of another's product 6. straight rebadge 7. horrific chinese knock-off
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The eMPG numbers have been all over the place- some hybrid owners have reported, what; 450 MPG? Too many variables to compare hybrid MPG in a meaningful way. Doesn't matter at all in this case, of course; mercedees buyers only evaluate ONE thing.
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I remember when rolls royce & bmw said the same thing RE a really good automatic trans. They're still using the same source for their auto...... Oh yeah. If margins are slim & the segment is slight, its one thing. If the picture is otherwise (ask Ford), investment can have its returns (yep, I realize the Connect already was). 10 years ago, there were hardly any small commercial vans available. Leaders lead, the rest follow ( or rebadge).
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- Citroen
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At least when the slightly revised, multiple versions of the same thing came from the same corporation, there were arguments for it, but this is just utter madness. Ninety-Eight- I agree with your sentiments RE 'American thing lost'... unfortunately most noobs are told 'it's fine, don't worry about it'.
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Al Gore is much more the S600 type.
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Interesting footnote in automotive history, but this is priced like it can levitate. Note they show no pics of the interior (you can find them elsewhere on the net), because overall this car has all the physical appeal of a carnival ride. Still, it does command a good degree of mythicality. http://findyourclassiccar.com/2013/06/20/1959-opel-p1-experimental-best-mpg-ever/ http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/1959-opel-p1-experimental-prototype-gas-mileage-record-holder_100315433_m.jpg
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All the sentiments are spot-on. However, note the drudgery of 'same old same old' shows the guy stuck in traffic, and the climactic scenes in the Holden show wide-open, empty rural roads. Truth is, other that sounding good, that same Holden will sit, mired in commuter traffic, slogging it out in the daily commute, and elbowing it's way thru crowded urban roads. In other words, that drudgery is inescapable, and the performance/exhaust note aside, there's still plenty of vanilla here. That, and it's dated IMO.
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IF mercedes makes that much on the mainstream vehicles, the profit on the Maybach must've been at least 100,000/car. I mean- that certainly wasn't a 300,000 interior!! and the rest was an s-class. Don't try and tell me they cancelled a profit-making halo flagship car..... how the hell did they F that brand up so badly? Daimler has the same trucks badged as 'mercedes' and 'frieghtliner'. Gee, why does that sound familiar? Plug-in hybrid tech is not remotely new, that had better not be the trump card for the Pullman trim option....
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Right, except... mercedees sells a million plus (mostly to low-margin fleets), contaminates their portfolio with garbage trucks & cargo vans, is supposedly massively profitable, is on an intergalactic quest for The Most Sales Possible..... yet even they could not make a case for a tarted-up s-class sedan -their ultimate & SO important flagship- that started stickering at $380,000 !!! So much for 'economies of scale'! lol
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- Cadillac
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Very nice!
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Scion News: Scion Misses Youth Market, Struggling In Sales
balthazar replied to William Maley's topic in Toyota
toyoyo's problem isn't a scion problem, it's an industry problem. In other words, merely saying the car is 'fun to drive', or 'for the young' doesn't make it so. Beyond that; here's really nothing special about scion whatsoever. And that recent commercial is bat$h! crazy. It will take a true break-away to cause a lasting stir; a breakaway and a strong dedication to that breakaway product, but frankly the rules have constrained things so tightly, I don't know if that's possible. -
Why not; Maybach sued mercedes....
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Possibly, but I wonder how much MB thinks it can tack on for a trim level, yet still claim they are competing with RR? They took a HUGE hit with the maybach failure. Agreed RE the Pullman name. Check it out tho : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_automobile
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^ BECAUSE mercedees has the fleet market tied up and the retail market isn't worth much! You think the EUR fleet sales don't hurt, but mercedes is only circa 35% retail- you don't see any possible connection??? What would their profit/revenue be if the numbers were switched around?? Maybe daimler wouldn't have to badge a cargo van as a mercedees to bolster profits and maybe they wouldn't have to build soo many SUVs. Imports don't sell well in EUR because there are too many automotive bigots in that market. BTW- I wasn't talking about the chassis, but the DESIGN of the CLS. Really weird to have the slinkiest, more futuristic sedan not be your flagship. But like I said; the livery market... What I want to know is, IF this 'pullman' comes to pass under the mercedes logo, does that mean the s-class gets demoted from it's flagship position?
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^ Good point. Trying to recall the number for Germany, I believe it was 65% non-retail (overall for the brand). So in some countries I imagine the numbers might reach... who know; 90% fleet or more?
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>>"private consumers<<" That's a strict minority, as fleet sales in Germany at least far outstrip retail sales. They're just not sought by private consumers much- maybe it's a budgetary thing. I imagine elsewhere in EUR it is much the same story. We here in NA are left with the smoke & mirrors facade of 'uber lux' to the point we can't imagine what the rest of the world sees. I really would like to learn the average option addition dollar amount is on the s-class in the U.S., since the average transaction price is what- 8K below base MSRP? You look at the option list in the s-class and there are numerous options in the multi-thousand dollar range. This would be an eyeopening auto factoid & should be relatively easy to get hold of... Back to mercedes.... seems the top of their portfolio is a bit of a mess. They have the ubitquitous, generic s-class, then the futuristic CLS (which should have been the last s-class, tho obviously the more truck-like current S is better suited to fleet taxi use), then the debacle of the failed maybach, now maybach 2.0- the pullman. That's 3 cars based on the same platform in the span of a few years. In the recent wings are the freakshow of the F700 (boy, does mercedes like old Ford truck monikers), and the chunky throwback of the 'Ocean'. That's a lot of wild gesturing & numerous design languages. Tho the s-class never raised the design bar for anyone, at least it shambled forward gen-to-gen, but that shambling has slowed to a crawl with the 2014. Smart managers at Daimler would realize the s- is all they have a business case for, and there is no demand for a higher sedan to the point of making it self-sustaining. Instead, the management at Daimler has but one goal- whore, whore, whore the brand out for ultimate sales.
