balthazar

Was it a mid-year addition? - because the 1000 is not in the '81 U.S. Pontiac full-line brochure. No diesel listed in the full-line '83 brochure. Unfortunately for this discussion- I don't have an '82 brochure.

T1000 was NOT here yet by 1980- did it appear after GM pulled the plug on diesels?? Not that I paid a microsecond of attention to it (I did follow Pontiac, tho), but I don't recall the T being available with a diesel.

Never did.

>>"In an effort starting in the late 1950's with the Chevrolet Impala and accelerating in the 1970's and 80's the American value brands started offering models that were priced into the same range as their big brother brands."<< Who wrote this piece, because this is the first time I've seen what I always believed to be true: that the '58 Impala was the first tangible sign the Sloan Ladder was no longer used. bobo ~ >>"Entry-level value brands aren't very entry-level anymore. In many cases they are better equipped than luxury vehicles of a few years ago. I think the middle brands just got squeezed out. The luxury makes have also become more accessible with cheap leases, and Lexus and Infiniti expanded that segment, and BMW and Mercedes had to go downmarket to compete. Also, most vehicles these days are pretty generic, with unremarkable styling. Take away the badge, and most family sedans are seemingly interchangeable. Is there a need for 15 different family sedans when they're all similar? Certainly the mainstreaming of Honda and Toyota and now Hyundai have attracted many of those buyers as well."<< Excellent points, all. Often I've mused that having NAAAAVVVVV, moonroofs, 18" alloys, hard drives, etc etc in the cheapest cars completely dilutes the price tier and has been instrumental in killing off the mid-priced segment. What's left; slightly different sized versions of the same car. That, and the downmarket/ full-line expansion of nearly all the foreign brands have flooded the market with generic homogenization. Left jab, right cross, TKO. And I believe it's irreversible, so more death is to come.

3-spd (on the column & floor), 4-spd, 5-spd, 4x2 spd. But I prefer an automatic in a daily.

Sixty8panther ~ >>"The ultimate evolution, still very close in airframe to the original 1935 prototype, was powered by a Supercharged, inverted V12 built by Daimler Benz..."<< Merlin: water-cooled 60-degree SOHC 48-valve V-12 with single-stage SCer. American licensee Packard fitted a 2-stage SC and boosted HP from 1030 to 1700. Packard also replaced the troublesome Brit SU carbs to Bendix units. British Spitfires topped out at 350 MPH, but Packard-Merlin P-51s went 437 MPH.

^ But could you tell them apart in the dusk ? Aware of the (minor) wheelbase difference, but the cars were unquestionably twins all the same. -- -- -- -- -- 'stang84 ~ >>"In 2000, had you told me that Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, and Mercury would be gone within 10 years, I would have called you crazy. What odd times we live in. "<< Olds & Pontiac: agreed.

Camino ~ >>"A 'Cuda was far more interesting than a Challenger for example."<< A matter of grille/taillight preference, no? Not disagreeing.... I saw much validity in Plymouth prior to the '80s. Plymouth hit it's peak in the late '50s when it defied Corporate directive and did what it thought best, and the (streamlines) Fury upended the vaunted 300 at Daytona. The Corp soon clipped Plymouth's wings, and by '60, the Corporate Engine Hammer fell. There definitely was something there in numerous models over time. I was quite shocked when Plymouth's discontinuance was announced, tho part of me expected it when the PT went to Chrysler.

I came >this< close to buying a white '68 GTO hardtop, red interior & His-n-Hers. I like the '68-72 A-Bodies only slightly less than the '66-67s ; they're all nice. It's the B-Bodies where there is no question, IMO; '63-64 are the kings.

I don't think you weedwacker-lovers are nuts; to each his own. But I don't see it myself- just doesn't sound powerful/impressive to my ear and never will.

Welcome! LeMans sounds nice- let's see a few pics! I would only agree that the Challenger commercial is a smak @ GM if there was no Camaro slap back.

I can certainly visit with my '64s, but they are not going to roll today.

WRT the R32 : Getting the same thing out of that: on throttle/WOT it sounds good (tho raspy), but back off or idling and it sounds sickly.

>>"Anything is possible if you throw enough time and money at it."<<{/i] Exactly right- and the $205K lambo is likewise proof enough of that.

What- you think the Impala's suspension is stock ?? Don't for one second think that a '65 Impala cannot be built to outhandle a lamborghini, because it absolutely can. There's nothing physically preventing that, and the aftermarket is there. The suspension doesn't know what body shell it's under. The other point is- a lambo almost doesn't qualify as a stereotypical 'stock' car, if you get me (550-some HP). I don't care for that high-pitched whine (lambo) in car engines- always sounds overstressed/struggling to me. -- -- -- -- -- And WRT the Aston posted earlier- under load it sounds great, but at idle it sounds like sh!t IMO. The 'exotic's frequently seem plagued with this dichotomy. -- -- -- -- -- I remember working at one client's house, and there were 2 'off-the-boat' Italian painters there, too. We all were out in the garage when the ex- shows up in his ferrari 355 spyder. We watched him start it, roll down the drive & take off at a decent clip, and the one guy sez something to me in effect 'Sounds so nice, eh?' but they scoffed at me when I answered that when it started, it sounded like an old Chrysler. Which it did. -- -- -- -- -- Seen the '55 Merlin- but I don't care for it's sound- too broken up/sickly. I've had fun so far poking around youtube looking at engine vids- neat idea, DF- thanks. The Duesey I linked to on page 1 is by far my favorite tho. Keep in mind with that one: stock 1930.

Duramax Impala against lambo :

Alcohol-injected Caddy 500 :

^ Same here. I will add that here I DO like the 2 red stripes & how they wave flag-like.

I've heard a 427 dual quad Galaxie (race mill) run a foot away... with open exhaust. Nice.

Something uncommon yet topical :

Holy frickin' crap: Just amazing.

How about this one- you get the frequency & pitch of the radial much better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwOVq5aC0As

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TIdQFnUvCA A little rough, but has huge potential. Advance to minute mark 3:15. -- -- -- -- -- Done.

>>"Plenty of space in the bed."<< Could it be any other way in a long bed ? Those 'quaint' appointments are far more durable than plush carpet & power doo-dads, and in a 'work' truck, that's what counts. Same goes for the more durable plastics. I was eyeballing a circa '94 F-150 on the road today- I will likely miss mine (to a degree) for decades to come (same basic XL-Special).

Detroit MI to Pennington NJ. Google maps sez 605 miles. Trip took 8.5 hrs- that's an AVERAGE speed of 71 MPH. We were FLYING... and that included numerous stops to scrape the slush build-up off the headlights. Yes- in the middle of winter, in a messy storm, where maybe 1 out of 15 vehicles WASN'T a tractor-trailer. Pretty sure there were no bathroom breaks. Madness.