balthazar

??

Don't forget: 4. obscuring & denying indoctrinated race-centric beliefs

Random but verified -- '53 Corvette had a 140, was up to 160 at least as early as '59. '63-64 Avanti had a 140. '65 Corvair Corsa had a 140. '36 Auburn speedster had a 140. '36 Cord 810 had a 150. Duesenbergs also had a 150. '63 Studebaker Lark Daytona had a 160. '65 Shelby CObra 427 had a 180. '60 Chrysler 300-F Specials had a 200.

If DE was still putting causes of death in obits in this millenium, I have a new sliver of respect for DE. I haven't seen that practice regularly for decades in Jersey. To the point that a page 1 accident story is matched by a page 10 obit of the same person, with nary a whisper of CoD there. The most fascinating obit I've ever read; here's a partial passage from my G-G-G-granduncle Adam Zupp's obituary, Ellenville NY, 09-19-1898 >>>"Mr Zupp, though not down with sickness, had been in poor health much of the time for 3 or 4 years. Monday forenoon he was digging potatoes and gathering some other garden vegetables. He took a hearty dinner and was going out to work again about one o'clock, when something about his suspenders gave way and he walked up the steps for a needle & thread with which to mend them. Returning, he stood by the door and had taken a single stitch when a little hacking sound was heard from his throat. He stooped forward and appeared to be vomiting. His son asked if he wanted anything, and presently his wife placed a chair, suggesting that he be seated. To both he simply waved his hand in declination. It was then noticed that his hemmorage was of blood, and a minute later he sank on the chair, and for the first time he found speech, only to remark, "I am gone." and almost immediately he passed away. The physician certified hemmorage of the stomach as the cause of death."<<< Today's obits (much like today's cars ) are staggeringly mundane in comparison.

And I know one of those persons ('knows more than given credit for') is you, which explains my dismay seeing you esp. post stuff you should know better than to with your brain's eyes closed. Some of it may be in your expression of your idea; true. Understand me tho; if I can interpret it that way, others can, too, and I am compelled to clarify/correct it. If by truce you mean dropping this discussion in this thread, I'm in. I have nothing against you personally, but I have much against 'bad history'.

Sorry; I never implied anything of the sort on my part. I am GM's self-appointed historical curator here, teaching the kiddies the unvarnished truth. Drop BS and I bring the shovel.

Croc- >>"Really? Trot out his voting record and prove it."<< The 'grade', based on his voting, comes from HERE. >>"Because McCain has voted with Bush 95% of the time."<< Notice you never hear the % of how often Obama voted 'with Bush' ? 49% (2006). Thought it might be around 6%, perhaps? And you do realize that a great many votes cover utter fluff & nonsense, like approving National Watermelon Day or agreeing to congratulate the Giants on their SB win, right? Surely you don't think that Big Gov is getting meaningful things accomplished, by & large, do you? With this in mind, the 95% is pretty meaningless. >>"As for the surge, how has it "worked"?"<< Not up on the specfics myself, but BO pretty much admitted this himself in the O'Reilly interview this week. BO: "It has gone very well." Is he lying for some incomprehensible reason? Check youtube. >>"Also, you might want to research domestic oil drilling...if started NOW, none of that oil would be in the system until 2012 due to infrastructure setup. How is that going to impact prices?"<< This is another short-sighted Dem talking point. What's going to get here quicker: new oil well production, or solar/ wind/ nuclear/ other? Those have a minute fraction of the infrastructure of oil and will take many more years to get 'on grid'. No, the only common sense plan is to activate ALL feasible energy sources so the results hit as quickly as possible for each. Ask yourself why the Dems -who up until a few minutes ago- were vehemently & unilaterally against drilling, but now Pelosi grudgingly admits they 'will consider it'. It's all a smokescreen; she has no intention whatsoever in voting for drilling, she's far too out-of-touch to understand how important this has become and far too obsessed with opposing Bush to care. All the Dems who have switched their position on this are doing is placating voters who have pushed energy to the #1 issue spot. >>"I'm voting based on how each candidate has made decisions throughout their career, throughout the campaign, and how they handle stress based on the way they handle stress on the campaign."<< Sounds reasonable... but when the history of the candidate is paper-thin, there's not much "throughout their career" to go on. Trot out his 'community organizer record', why don't you? Stress, he does not handle as well as I would like; he is easily flustered on cold questions, too much stammering. >>"In these regards, Obama has run a much more successful campaign. He "Got Out The Vote" during the primaries, he out-fundraised all of his rivals, he has a strong grass-roots network (probably based on his background as a community organizer), and he is a very good speaker."<< I would submit: August 2008 estimate including independants: 51% lean D and 38% lean R. In 2004 numbers, there were 72M Ds and 55M Rs. Who do you think is more likely to raise more $ ? He is a very good teleprompter reader, yes. He lacks convinction when not spoon-fed, however. >>"According to John McCain, he has changed his mind completely on several issues in the past 8 years."<< The world and this country have changed completely on several issues in the past 8 years. Remember Sept 10th, 2001? Sticking resolutely to the same line in light of that is failing to 'adapt, overcome, improvise', which is what we need. >>"I also severely question his judgment, not just in how he runs his campaign, but in his inability to make decisions. The memos are out there, McCain wanted Lieberman as his VP. That's a fact. So why didn't McCain make a decision HE wanted instead of kow-towing to the team of advisors who are the same ones who advised Bush?"<< It had been reported that this was a 'floating' of Lieberman to gauge his pro-choice standing with the R base. >>"...by picking Palin, McCain pandered, just like he did when he changed his mind on those countless issues between 2000 and 2008.'<< And you don't think BO has changed his mind countless times on countless issues ?? Did he not swear he never heard any of Rev Wright's racist, anti-American speeches in 20 years, then recant that under pressure ? In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed in the effort to overthrow Castro." Speaking to a Cuban American audience in Miami in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change." What changed in Cuba in those 3 years?

This is a bit open-ended, as I do not have a list of answers at hand; thought those interested might work thru it. I would be interested to learn Year/Model of U.S. cars that 'upped' the speedo maximum. IE: what was the first factory speedo to read to : 100 MPH : 120 MPH : 140 MPH : 150 MPH : 160 MPH : 180 MPH : 200 MPH : 100 might be tough- we might be going back pretty far. If there are 'interum' numbers (EX: 130 MPH), and anyone who cares to toss in foreign speedos, go ahead. I do have the 200 MPH answer, I believe- it was surprising enough to me to inspire this topic. We can deal with production vs. 'specials' as they arise. Have at it!

That's not irony, that's (largely) reality. Go back to the '60s or earlier and that would be nothing but fantasy.

There is NO 'magic energy bullet'; no one source could possibly solve "everything", any potential leader talking in that manner just look naive. At this point, with general instability of some areas of the world geo-politically & economically, what we need to do is NOT ban any workable sources of energy at this point. Drill, fuse, blow, photo, hydro, bring it all on. Dems like to cater to the enviro-nazis by saying 'no' to select energy sources using the oversimplification of 'it won't solve every one of our problems, so it's not worth pursuing'.

moltar- >>"So some parts may or may not have interchanged 50 years ago. What does that have to do with the state of GM, circa 2008? Too much obsession with trivia... "<< Not sure why you apparently feel compelled to comment on a topic you've repeatedly shown indifference for. You've posted countless anecdotals about your family, friends & co-workers; one might well call it 'too much obsession with anecdotals'... hyperv6- >>"At this point it is all has no bearing on todays problems at Pontiac. The pas it just that the past and it is time for some to remember and learn from it but stop living in it. I am done wasting space on this."<< Very good. I look forward to minimized historical misdirection in the future on these pages.

Dig the all-white tires. Sometimes you see the brass-era show cars w/ all-whites wearing what I'll call 'tire socks'- elasticized fabric covers that slip over the tires to keep the tread clean on the show field. Anyone up for some triple-stripes?

>>"OK, so they needed a woman to stabilize McCain's ticket and fetch the Hillary vote, if that was the intent. Couldn't they have found one that was 54 (instead of 44), with a law degree (only because it's typical), 10 years of significant political experience, and kids at least 10 years old? I'm sure they existed."<< Now we're voting based on age & # of children? Does McCain's 4 trump BO's 2, or is it vice versa? If Palin is too young to be VP at 44, what does that make BO being P @ barely 47 ?? While we're at it, couldn't we have found a guy who wasn't from a broken home and didn't do drugs in HS - I'm sure they're out there. Can we get anymore superficial?

3-series outsells all other bmw-branded vehicles combined, yet it is down 16% vs. last year. 1-series will undoubtedly steal more & more 3-series sales, esp with duplicate engines & amenities. 6-series is a sales dud. '80s & '70s 3-series were not considered the best in their fields; 3-series ran completely unchanged from '76 thru at least '83. Comments from then "Not at the top of the class in ride, handling or interior room... tricky rear suspension looses grip in hard corners... particularly in the rain. Ride.. becomes turbulent on broken tarmac & long-wave undulations. Interior furnishings will seem too workmanlike for some, and the firm seats border on being hard. A bit dated in some ways, but wearing well. A smaller successor is a couple of years away." {Only 26!}

Every single bmw is down YTD except a tiny uptick on the X5. 1-series clearly looks to be cannabalizing 3-series' sales. Brand volume is totally carried by the 3- and 5-series.

Wow, the EcoVoyager sure is different, proportionally. I struggle to think of a car that changes appearance so radically in the 360. I was not expecting that bumblebee rear. Not sure if I like it or not: front 3/4 looks interesting, rear 3/4 is a bit weird. Can we also call this a return to cab forward while we're at it?

Yeah; it'd be cool to drive it around, and you might actually --for a milli-moment-- forget the 1,000,000 metric tons of 200-proof frustration and the endless trial & error and the quarter mil you spent to get it done, aside from all the mow jobs. Wouldn't you really rather have an Allison V-1710 ?

Can't live with people, can't live without 'em. Family, friends, security, pursuit of happiness, 'do unto others...'. Most of the rest is delusional emptiness. Keep yer chin up, Cort.

'63 Chevy II Nova convertible, project car, bought & sold in 2 weeks, June '03. '64 Grand Prix Sport Coupe, bought Oct '86. Still own.

>>"Really? WTF? Did you get that from a FW:FW:FW:FW:FW: OBAMA OSAMA IS A MUSLIM@Q!!@!!!!!! email or something?"<< Maybe he got it from the fact that his father was muslim and for a short while during his youth BO was enrolled in an islamic school. I know: 'long time ago'. Fast forward, 2008: BO was supposed to give a prominent speaking role @ the DNC (didn't watch it- did it happen?) to Dr Ingrid Mattson, president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), an organisation created by the radical Saudi-funded Muslim Students Assoc.. So what? The Justice Department has ID's the ISNA as a Muslim Brotherhood front organization and a co-conspirator in a terrorism financing conspiracy. The ISNA is one of many Muslim Brotherhood-affiliated groups operating in the U.S.. Court-documented evidence from the MB itself states that "the work {of Brotherhood members} in America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands and the hands of believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions." What does all this mean in regards to BO and his apparent acceptance & de facto endorsement of these organizations by continuing to associate with them? Good f'ing question... who's got the answer ??

>>"What's wrong with yuppies? "<< Self-centered? Self-righteous? Judgemental? Vain? Superficial? Ignorant? I dunno, what is wrong with them?

IDK... Barry was only convicted on a single misdemeanor charge of cocaine posession prior to 'rising from the ashes'. {Entire legal procedures were a farce.} He's a scumbag. Kilpatrick pleaded guilty to 2 felony obstruction of justice charges (there were 8 originally), plus a 3rd felony charge of assault on a police officer- the latter which sourced his forced resignation (in other words, it was not his choice to resign. This is commonly called 'getting canned'). {Whole judicial case was -again- a farce.} He's another scumbag.

hyperv6- >>"I have spent a lot of time with both Chevy and Pontiac and know how many of the part are the same, shared or interchange with little effort."<< OK; would you then be so kind as to offer up what interchanges between a '59 Pontiac & a '59 Chevy full-size? >>"In the 50's it was less and grew to what it became in the 70's and 80's. I will give you they were never identical or as bad as it became in the later years."<< In the '50s it was 10% if we're being generous. Are we still going to call this "more alike than most people would think", or was the above a retraction of sorts? >>"He can makes some good points without getting stupid."<< I try.

What Packard V-6s were used on a common crank to engineer the Twin-Six? By the same token, how would/could an existing V-8 be even partially used on a common crank to build a V-16? Engineers could copy certain specs --bore spacings, rod design, basic crank geometry--, but make no mistake; it's a 'clean sheet' project every time. You might get 15% carryover. The statement is purely figurative. BTW XP, you are correct; the Packard Twin-Six did have a block cast in 2 pieces. However, the 2-pieces seam did NOT run North/South, but East/West. In other words, the seam ran horizontally, at mid-block. You can see pics of both production Packard V-12s and proposed I-6s both using this same type of construction HERE. Kinda kills the whole '2 V-anythings on a common crank = double the cylinders, it's Miller Time' nonsense right quick, no? Oh, I'm not trying to say it's completely impossible... but in the realm of history , it's oversimplification to the nth degree, and I know some are reading it and thinking 'Gee, it's that simple?' Do we really want to deal with that as historical curators? Parting note: during Packard's period of multi-cylinder consideration, thought was given to building a 'Twin-Four'. No- it was NOT a proposal to build a V-8 out of 2 Packard I-4s, either.

hyperv6- >>"You can have your veiw as much as I. While you look at past GM cars for their differances I look at them for thier similarities. It goes back to the saying glass half full or half empty."<< That only applies at the exact moment the glass is literally 50% full/empty. Saying a GTO is "Chevelle-based" is a glass 10% full, yet you still want to call it 'half full'. This is like you saying the sky is blue, I say it's red and that 'we each have our own opinions'. Nuts, bolts, rocker arms and crankshafts are not opinions. BTW- I look at past GM cars for their ACTUALITIES; not apparently agenda-driven interpretations of them. >>"I can see the differance in thr Canadian full size Pontiacs with the Chevy frames... ...but I also see the full size Pontiac SD cars int he late 60 with 396 engines to. I know they were limited in Canada but it also shows these parts are direct boilt in's."<< Those are reskinned Chevys; unloved bastards. Canadians got royally screwed with that arrangement. Bolting a SBC into a Chevy chassis has no bearing whatsoever to bolting a Chevy engine into a Pontiac. Why would you refer to a reskinned Chevy in order to make a point how "close Pontiacs & Chevys are" ?? The Canadian Pontiac is a Chevy. Do you live in Canada, do you only work on Canadian Pontiacs? BTW: the full-size performance Canadian Pontiacs wore '2+2' badging; the Sport DeLuxes were all Acadians & Beaumonts. >>"You might change a Safari wheel base 7 inches but it was a two door wagon with the same roof line that was developed for a Chevy."<< Safari wheelbase was not "changed". The Safari was developed by Pontiac for the Pontiac chassis, the Nomad was developed by Chevy for the Chevy chassis. The roof stamping & greenhouse was developed for both divisions & was shared. >>"How many other Pontiacs would have disapeared if Chevy did not have a sister car?"<< Interesting question. Not these for sure : Bonneville : 1957 >< Impala : 1958 Tempest : 1961 >< Chevy II : 1962 Grand Prix : 1962 (or '69 if you want to stick to the A-Special)>< Monte Carlo : 1970 GTO : 1964 >< Chevelle SS >< 1965 >>"Either way this is a argument that neither of us will win as it is more on how you view it. If you want to count exact parts you win and if you count similar parts and basic engineering I would win."<< "You can have your view as much as I." Your "basic engineering" gets you nearly as close to a Fairlane GT as it does to a Chevelle SS. Boy, for a guy who has professed admiration for vintage PMD, you sure play it loose & sloppy with the facts & insinuations, the result being a continual beating down of the Division's history, breezily excused with a 'you know what I mean'. Oh well, perhaps you really are more of a Chevy fan. >>"They may have hidden the relationships of these vehicles in the past better...."<< There's no "hiding it" in 1955 or 1960 or 1965 (big cars). Safari / Nomad is all right there, out in the open; the greenhouse/roof. Done.