balthazar

There are vehicles out there that are a LOT more hideous than this.

>>"You're right... in 1984 my parents bought a new Reliant... the color looked so dated and ugly in just a few years."<< There ARE no new colors- ask Crayola. Oh; 'fashionable colors'- I for one have never bothered to 'keep up' with what's fashionable, it's time-consuming enough just keeping up with what's functional and I never seem to get along with those who place any sort of importance on 'that's hot'.

>>"Instead of scrapping its brown-and-yellow logo, seen by some as dowdy, UPS embraced it. Thus the now-famous "What can brown do for you?" campaign was born."<< Is it just me, or is that slogan just AWFUL? I am not able to see any positives in it. >>""Everybody has a silver car -- right there that turned us off" "<< Uh-oh, somebody get mercedes on the phone.

Are there a lot of 'bread and butter' under-3.0L V-8s out there ??

Hang tough, Delta! Good words, felt much that way myself once or twice, long ago. You'll persevere.

From my local paper via the Associated Press: >>>A 24-year old tax dispute between the city and GM has ended, clearing the way for plans to sell & redevelop the company's Route 1 and 9 property where auto production ended two years ago. The two sides announced during Tuesday's City Council meeting that they have reached a settlement in which the city will pay the Detroit-based automaker $4.8 million to settle tax appeals for 2005, 2006 & 2007. The city has been in litigation with General Motors over its municipal tax assessment ever since the company appealed its 1983, 1984 & 1985 assessments. Over the years, there have been court rulings for both sides, which often led to further appeals. Meanwhile, if the 104-acre site, appraised at between $40 million and $60 million, sells for more than $40 million, the city will be able to reduce it's payment to GM by $800,000. Linden's Mayor Gerbounka said that the city benefits in that if Linden had lost the tax appeals from 1983 on, the city could have been looking at a payment of $20 million to $40 million to the auto giant. ...GM project manager Fred Zehnder, North American Operations, Worldwide Real Estate, said the agreement is fair and equitable and that it will allow GM to move forward to sell the site. GM spokewoman Janine Freehan said it was too early to know what type of environmental cleanup would be needed at the plant. Linden opened in 1937, initially building Buicks, Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles. During World War II, the plant was converted to build Wildcat fighter airplanes for the Navy. The planes were tested across the highway at the Linden Airport. Car were assembled at the plant from after the war until 1991. The following year the plant was retooled to produce trucks and sport utility vehicles. A white Chevrolet Blazer was the last vehicle to roll off the line in April 2005.<<< So 2 plants local to me have closed recently: Ford's Edison Assembly was torn down in '06, and GM's Linden plant will probably be leveled by '08. I used to thunder right by the Linden plant in my '64 Catalina about 10 years ago, on my way to or from Uncle Charlie's or Cheeque's go-go bar up that way, roll down the window and yell out "834L88280 still on active duty!! Sadly, 88280 has been relegated to parts car status, unless I had excessive disposable income to redo the entire vehicle, which would not make economic sense, just sentimetal sense.

I was looking at a 2-dr sedan last year; a rough project car on a trailer at the swap meet. It was somehow strangley fascinating- almost looked like a shop class project (built by some talented HSers). Crude but quite charming all the same.

Is that a Neon & a Neon? No- 12 years is not enough, things have been 'on the cheap' for a long time now, esp RE the steel in modern cars; can you give me 25? When the Rabbit came here around 1980, it weighed 1900 lbs. The current R32 weighs almost 3600. Sure; I know there's a bigger engine (tho was the '80's 4-banger an iron block?) and maybe AWD, but just how much of that nearly doubling in weight for a car roughly the same size comes from creature comforts and how much from structural safety improvements ?? My '64 Catalina 4-dr sedan has less than 20 lbs of plastic in it, it's 213" overall with a full frame & heavy-gauge sheetmetal and weighs only 3770 dry. The mercedes 2-seat roadster must have 500 lbs of plastic in it & an aluminum block/heads and it weighs 4400. I'm the only one I've ever read who rags on it. Either damn ALL cars today for being obese, or none at all and shut up & hit that in-dash 6-CD player and 19 speaker system !!

Right.... that's why Blazers were completely banned in the U.S.; couldn't pass U.S. crash standards. Oh... waitaminnit....

Arbeit macht frei.

>>"I think the advances in unibody strength can easily be seen in pics like these..."<< Those 2 are sequential generations of the same segment vehicle from the same manufacturer. It's illustrates your point but they are not far enough removed from each other timewise to address the long-term weight gain in cars (my point).

When the hell is GM going to wake up and build a 'vette like this?? It's a great idea!

>>"Yes...what amazes me is that it took decades to build it."<< Ain't hindsight grand? Didn't Jeep have a Cherokee or Wagoneer or some other 4-dr for those wanting a 4-dr Jeep back into the '60s? What- every model offered by any manufacturer should be a 4-dr at least? Should the next Camaro also come as a 4-dr for those that want "4-dr practicality" with their sports car? Why aren't 3-row SUVs offered w/ 6-doors? I don't get all this 4-dr fever- it will always signify 'family truckster' to me. Just wait- the 'business case' for the 2-dr Wrangler is fading with lightning speed.

"Thicker" relative to when?? I remember looking at a civic in the body shop about 10 years ago- hit in the rear corner. The 'sheetmetal' had ripped & crumpled EXACTLY like tin foil. It's irrepairable; ANY sheetmetal damage has to be replaced, not repaired. I'm not convinced unibodies have gotten any stronger; between building cars to 'do well' in crash tests, hiding inside numerous classes of vehicle test results, and measuring structural efficiency by how passengers are protected (not that there's anything wrong with that)... a LOT of substandard construction falls thru the cracks, IMO.No, all the added weight is the tenderfoot crying for DVD/NAV and sunroofs and rear seat heaters and 'parking assist' and lane departure warnings and 28 air bags... all that enabling &#036;h&#33; that's adds the weight. Ever pick up a spool of wire?

Only thing that springs to mind here is that 1 of the 6 cars in the '60s Pontiac Banshee series of concepts/prototypes used some Corvette suspension pieces, but that certainly would not have been in Hollanders. I have never heard of a RPO Pontiac and the vette sharing anything, tho.

My bad; you just seemed... full of glee. No offense intended.

Seems so today, but again- having NO oil filter was commonplace prior to the 1950s (my '46-48 Ford Flathead has no PROVISION for a filter), and having a filter standard was common after the 1950s... making the '50s a decade of 'oil filter transition'. There were oiling issues with the early 265 anyway- I believe the overall system got re-engineered... adding a filter was undoubtedly part of that re-engineering rather than 'fixing an oversight'. Sorry to douse your glee over 'another GM mistake'.

Pretty sure Mustangs of this gen did not offer leather, so that's most likely vinyl (not sure what was meant by "reworked"). Automatic? Pony interior? Rallye Pak? B-b-b-b-bondo? $6500 sounds a tad high... but I too have not been following Mustang values recently. In general, everything vintage is up vs. even 3 years ago, and I am cheap by nature- I haven't heard a "great!" price in years, but that's likely just me. There are plenty of available price guides, tho I don't know offhand of any online. Haven't been seeing anywhere as many stangs as I used to see --say-- 5-7 years ago; must be hiding. If she wants & likes/loves the car and she wants to keep it indefinately, the price sounds fine & dandy to me. It's really only if you are looking to flip it that price becomes an issue. Parts of any and all nature are plentiful via the aftermarket & the hobbyist circle.

Not overlooked... a number of motors in this time period had optional oil filters... '58 Pontiac 370, for example. Earlier, no oil filter was commonplace- there's none on my '46-48 Ford flathead.

I'm in a 'vein' of new cars- the classics that used to lurk in people's backyards or driveways have been gone for years. I have to travel east & south to see cool stuff in the wild. I forgot the '40 Ford, '68 Firebird and '63 Chevy pickup seen that day, too. No pics of the Montes, tho I'll get one of my buddy's '71 MC the next time I'm over. I like the lines on the 1st gen MC, but I am a Pontiac man and the MC cannot hold a candle in details or esp the interior to a '69-70 GP.

>>"Another goal, he said, is to make the new diesel engine the smoothest and quietest in the industry - something GM may have to do to silence critics who remember the automaker's troublesome diesels of the late 1970s and early 1980s."<< You've got to be kidding me. Ridiculously irrelevant- will the media continue to drag this up... 50, 60, 70, 80 years from now? F**k. GM has sold 1 million DuraMax diesels, haven't they? The current 360/650 6.6L is already nearly as quiet as a gas engine, much quieter than my 310/605 6.6L. My brother has one in his 3500- it's amazingly quiet. Making this 4.5L the most quiet should be a piece of cake; GM is already 90% of the way there with production diesels. >>"403 lb-ft is more than what the 6.0L Vortec MAX makes, and vans like the Sprinter have proven that commercial vehicles don't really need a huge amount of power. "<< What's a Sprinter weigh? because it looks like it'd need some ballast to weigh 3500 lbs. I've not heard a whisper of how they perform- where is this 'proof'? I also VERY seldom even see a sprinter- they are NOT in use around here.

Caught up with an old buddy today and saw the following. At his house: '56 Bel Air, 2-dr hardtop, 350/TH350, very presentable cruiser '67 Malibu 2-dr hardtop, an old friend bought back, solid but needs work. He and I stuffed a 350/TH350 in this one years back. '71 Monte Carlo, black over white, 21K miles, black bucket/console interior, 402/THM400. Gorgeous. '02 Camaro- who cares At another dude's place: '37 Chevy sedan, parts '40 Merc sedan, drivable, in primer '50 Merc coupe, chopped, very rusted but workable '51 Ford convert, body finished, in primer, chopped & slammed, mild custom '52 Ford F-2 pickup, chopped, rough '54 Ford Victoria 2-dr sedan, Packard taillights & con't kit, flamethrowers, long-time local cruiser '55 T-bird, bod done & in primer, both tops, needs reassembly '57 Bel Air 2-dr hardtop, solid but needs everything, 4-spd '68 Chevelle 2-dr hardtop, original 396 car, now with 454, needs work but complete '68 Malibu 2-dr hardtop, rough & incomplete '70 Monte Carlo, apart, primer, 350/THM Out & about: '55 Merc coupe '56 Studebaker sedan '62 Olds Starfire convertible, gorgeous '64 Studebaker Lark sedan The T-bird was real tempting but way out of my price range ($11K). These are one of the very few 'Ford' cars I like. The '50 Merc pulls hard at me too, but I'm in no way in the market for that level of project. Problem is, these are getting harder and harder to find 'in the wild'. Most of you would laugh at the idea this thing was even savable, never mind that he paid $2300 for a cobbled-together shell with no floors. All of the dude's stuff except the '50, '51 & '54 are for sale if anyone's interested. My buddies' stuff is not for sale. A good day in my book.

Well, since there are no color codes on the data plate, who's to say it's wrong? Plus, red & black usually go over a hellva lot easier than 2-tone green.

Uppers only, right? : lower arms are still forged in '59.

'04 Silverado : Flint MI : in production, (1947-present). '94 F-150 : Norfolk VA : inactive, (1925-2007). '64 Grand Prix : Pontiac MI : closed (gone??) Years are unclear- is this the same plant that Reliable was moved into from Owasso? Or is the same Pontiac plant, then the world's largest, built in 1927? I do not know when production shut down here- anyone?? '64 Catalina : Linden NJ : inactive, (1937-2005). '59 Invicta : Wilmington : in production, (1947-present), building Solstice/Skys. '40 Ford COE : plant unknown- no vehicle code. Closest plant to the COE's purchaser (Standard Oil of Elizabeth NJ) would've been Chester PA (1927-1961).