balthazar

Any entity that toots it's own impartiality horn yet refuses to reveal it's methods & formulas for achieving it's 'hard data' is a self-defeating joke. I've smelt the bias since the first time I ever read CR (which I haven't for years and years).

Yeah: an ala carte option list. And a horn ring. And less than 200 lbs of plastic- NO ONE offers that!

I'd rather buy a 15- or 20-yr old appliance at a garage sale than waste my money on a new Chinese-slapped-together POS you KNOW won't last 4 years.

I was looking at a '63 1/2 Ford Galaxie 500 XL (bucket/console) recently and it had the power window switches & window lock on the console also. Personally, I prefer them on the door, but it's not a make-or-break thing for me.

Good post, and I will not challenge those numbers (even tho I used Edmunds in the other thread where the '08 CTS's weight was discussed, only to have it proclaimed "wrong"... and BTW- I find edmunds site to be F-ing ponderous to navigate). You have made your point well, even tho I personally could not care less about vehicle weight. GM vehicles have been broadly maligned in numerous forums for being uncompetitive.... is not a great portion of the increased weight found in such generational 'upgrades' as moving from 4-spds to 6-spds, adding VVT-esque hardware, more soundproofing, more ammenities, more safety features, etc, etc, etc? Naturally, this alone would not explain differences between very dimensionally-close competitors... unless the GM vehicles were in fact also more stoutly built and had more features. Isn't that what everyone has been clamoring for- more lux, more gadgets?? Or does the competition just use thinner plastics & sheetmetal & lesser chassis'? I don't know the answer (assuredly it's complex), but I will not condemn GM for 'stupidity' just because the CTS is 350 lbs more than the G35. If economy & performance are comparable, there is no disadvantage.

>>"Rightfully agree with you Balthy. Not trying to be rude, but this is a Forum of making GM better and honestly I do not give a F### about other car manufacturers. "<< Just so long as you realize that harping on GM 'to make them better' simultaneously singles them out and makes them appear worse. I've read countless posts from you where I got that specific impression, irregardless of your intention. If other manufacturers' subsequent generations are ALSO getting heavier and heavier, how is GM doing wrong and everyone else is doing fine? >>"The same should have been the case with the Kappas..."<< The Kappa is a 1-generation platform- how did it get 'heavier'? There's nothing to compare it to. CTS's weight is right in line with what most people (erroneously) compare it to over at BMW- the 5-series. Again: BOTH could lose weight: (overall lengths: 190-ish")- my '64 Catalina at 213" overall weighs right about 3800 with less than 20 lbs of plastic, a full frame and real sheetmetal.

>>"It's kinda sad too, because China used to have some great culture and civilization before they fell to the Commies. "<< Unfortunately, there is no correlation between history & culture, and manufacturing ability or common sense values.

Awesome plane, one of my favs. Saw one a few years ago at an air show @ McGuire Airforce Base here in NJ- it was (IIRC: the replica of) the Memphs Belle. Saturday I was working outside when I heard very different engine sounds up above, coming from some distance. Was a B-25 that cruised low overhead, then flew over again about 5 minutes later. A pistonic symphony. Saw another (different) B-25 fly over 2 years earlier.

While you're at it, what's this week's Pick-6 numbers, t-200?

Nothing wrong with trying to steer your neighbor away from frustration & disappointment! Good job, S8!

>>"The entire GM lineup, save the GMT900 Pickups, Colorado and Canyon, and Corvettes could use a diet pill. These vehicles are at least 200lb heavier than they should be. "<< EVERY manufacturer's lineup could use a diet pill, not just GM's! Especially with more aluminum than ever, and everything you touch being thin plastic, a car the size of --say-- a passat would be 3000 lbs max, instead of reaching over 3800.

My father did a lot of work on the F-22's engines for the U.S. Navy/Department of Defense. It's an amazing piece, to be sure.

>>"I don't see exactly how quality is divined by such miniscule proportions."<< Some people are drivers, some people are diddlers. Grille looks fantastic- much richer and more detailed than any of it's competition. Interior should likewise reel many new buyers in. Looking forward to a considerable reshuffling of the segment's marketshare numbers.

Delta station 5 minutes from me today: $2.47

>>"What's amazing it's a 2002 concept. It's so current, it could have been done yesterday."<< Huh?? 2002 IS yesterday, both figuratively and stylistically literally.

'57 Lincoln 4-dr hardtop '53 Buick Special 2-dr sedan '55 Plymouth Plaza 4-dr sedan '55 Chevy 4-dr sedan '61 Olds 98 4-dr sedan

'Proved' by whom??- ever hear of a device called a linelock? How about 'power braking'? Trust me it's possible, I've seen it numerous times. ANY vehicle with marginal brakes & high torque levels has the potential to overpower it's brakes.

GXT+ >>"Around were I live there seems to be a lot of Buicks going through fences, houses, stores, etc. I don't think Buick has a problem with run-away acceleration. I think they have a problem with old buyers. "<< Monroe Twp NJ, 08-14-07 ~ "Barnet Dower was traveling north at about 4pm Tuesday when he drove through a marked parking space. He went over a curb, struck a tree, went over a second curb, then traveled across a roadway, over a lawn and up a driveway, striking a corner of the garage at 195 Newport Rd, police said. The vehicle continued thru the garage door, striking a 1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass parked inside. Dower continued eastward before striking the rear wall, knocking the garage off it's foundation. The vehicle became lodged in the garage wall. A township construction official declared the garage unsafe." Mr. Dower is 89 and was driving a toyota camry.

>>"...GM and American cars will lose credibility, "<< The thing you 'kill-all-the-middle-marques' types always gleefully overlook is, purposely & obviously imploding 3 or 4 marques ('all-fleet Pontiac to death') would be a catastrophic image nightmare/death sentence. How can you have all the answers yet miss that mile-wide & on-fire factor ???

>>"...its not that pillerless hardtops are unsafe, even for side impact, its just that they're naturally less structurally sound than an identical pillered car and the structural changes necessary to make it as rigid are beyond the financial means of most manufacturers."<< Horse-puckey. It's far less involved that engineering a convertible, and a great many manufacturers rubber-stamped the R&D bill for that. Engineer the next gen Model X as a hardtop from the beginning, and there's almost no additional cost (in addition to a pillared model, or retro-fitting a pillared model into a hardtop is another, more costly issue).

Which is the half that thinks $2000 handbags and cat acupuncture are good ideas?

>>"I never said that ALL Italian cars looked amazing either."<< No, you didn't, but you seemingly offered that factor up as support for the $200K pricetag. Ferrari & alfa are galaxies apart in reputation; I don't see alfa being Italian as helping here. >>"if current reliability standards are to judge, then technically all German marques ought to have left recently."<< Give VW a bit more time. :wink:

That's a great post, Camino! x3 : "All of this mental masturbation about killing brands is utterly pointless, it isn't in GM's plan - get over it."

Fiats used to be here in the U.S. market- no one went "ga-ga" over them in the least. Pretty sure they were Italian then, too. 'Gorgeous'- no. Clearly, Myershift, you are an alfa cheerleader; for your sake --if the 8c actually makes it here, perhaps you'll get to see one one day. To me- alfa is a failed brand that had to pull out of the U.S. market for building crappy, uncompetitive cars. A twice-as-rare, twice-as-attractive, full-blown exotic @ $500K wouldn't even begin to overturn that, IMO.

Waitaminnit, did I heard DLR singing right around the time he got canned from NY Radio? Can't remember: was it in a country-esque vein? Whatever: it was solidly awful. What's the recent prognosis on his pipes- does he have any steam left or no?