smk4565

"Disguise" good word choice because that is what they are trying to do. Most luxury buyers are too smart to be fooled though. The whole thinking behind the XTS is very much like Cadillac's philosophy of the 80s and 90s. The XTS doesn't take the brand where it needs to go. That is why this car is failure even before it goes on sale.

What is better, a CTS or a TL? A CTS or an MKZ? An Infiniti M or Acura RL? A 5-series or a Volvo S80?

But if you seek a good V6, the Ford Taurus has a 365 hp V6 right now. Why wait 2-3 years for Cadillac to offer me a 350 hp V6? And to me, I'd take a V8 over an equally powered V6 any day of the week. Hybrids are of no interest to me, and only 3% of cars sold in the USA are hybrids. The XTS really does nothing that one couldn't get from a Lincoln MKS right now. Aside from the hybrid system, which will surely be optional, and we don't know exactly what the mileage numbers are.

It just seems like it is the early 1980s all over again. Bad economy and fuel efficiency push, so Cadillac turns to front wheel drive, downsizes their engines, pulls out the V8-6-4, and worst diesel of all time. Yet Cadillacs were still bigger than the European cars, couldn't handle as well as them, and they did gimmicks like digital gauges and lots of chrome to differentiate the Caddies from Olds or Buick. It has come full circle. The XTS is a LaCrosse with an upgraded interior, 4 inch longer wheelbase and optional hybrid system for likely $20,000 more money. That isn't what a Cadillac should be.

Lexus has a hybrid V6 (and hybrid V8) on sale in Europe, AWD, and some decent interiors, yet they struggle in Europe. American cars are thought of as jokes in Europe, the XTS won't change their mind. The XTS isn't a better car than the CTS, and the CTS can't make a dent over there. Cadillac would need a Veyron or Maybach type of car to start to change their image, and I don't see that coming.

RWD cars ride better and accelerate without as much front end lift as a FWD car. RWD is not only better for performance, but for luxurious and smooth ride as well. RWD is just better. Much like V8s are just smoother and sound better than a V6. Mercedes doesn't sell a lot of S65's but what do you think the profit margin on that car is, it has a list price of $201,000. $110,000 more than an S550. And what does it do to enhance Mercedes' image. Cadillac's 350 hp is better than the S400's 295, but you can get 385, 510, or 612 hp in an S-class. Likewise with the 7-series, you can get 6, 8, or 12 cylinders with 330-550 hp. Cadillac offers no choice, just a V6.

BMW not only introduced a 6 liter, 12-cylinder car this year, but they put 2 turbos on it as well. So they aren't cutting any cylinders. AWD (especially transverse engine mounted awd) can not handle as well as RWD. Why not make the Camaro and Corvette fwd/awd with a V6 only and see how they perform.

Acura never did, but in 2004 they had a 300 hp V6 which at the time was almost as good as many V8s, just like Cadillac's 350 hp is almost as good as the V8s. Acura failed, Cadillac probably will too, the market demands a V8 and rear drive. A front drive Cadillac is just as bad as GM making a front drive Camaro with a turbo V6 and claiming it to be a sports car. Mercedes has a hybrid S-class for the ecomentalists, limo companies that sit in traffic and people that drive slow. The S-class has a 612 hp/738 lb-ft V12 option also. That is the difference, I can't choose a V12 XTS, I have to get a V6. BMW has a 480 hp hybrid on sale now, Cadillac releasing a 350 hp hybrid 2 years from now seems rather inconsequential.

The problem with the XTS, is this platform and engine won't be able to command a price premium, much like he Acura RL failed against the 5-series and E-class despite costing much less. No matter what they do with the interior, the platform will hold the car back, thus they'll have to start discounting it or resort to fleet sales, which will just send Cadillac downward more. Once Cadillac sees that the car struggles to sell about $45,000 they'll have to come out with lower content models and we'll be right back to where we are with the DTS. Cadillac doesn't fully understand the luxury market here, and they are clueless globally.

For the LaCrosse that is fine. But a Camry V6 has 268 hp and is 3500 or so pounds and moves with gusto as well. The problem is front drive has a limit, and cars that cost $30,000 already found it. That 280 hp may be more than enough for a Buick, but at $50-60,000 Cadillac is going against 350-400 hp cars.

Turbos are fine, especially when you do a twin turbo with one smaller that kicks in right away, then a second larger one for when it revs up more. BMW has made this work. The problem of being over a foot longer than an E-class, and likely costing the same, maybe even less than an E-class remains. This is just a modernized DTS, and is Epsilon II really any better than the G-body chassis? I haven't been in an Epsilon II car to compare, but Epsilon 1 wasn't as good as the G-body in my opinion. And let's remember, this is a concept, and the Platinum trim level. Probably some of this stuff won't be on the production model, and what will the base trim be like? I doubt the base car has the hybrid stuff (that will drive up cost) and I would guess FWD is standard because that adds cost and lowers fuel economy. So the base XTS, is then not much different than the current DTS and just a dressed up Buick.

A transverse mounted V8 is a bad idea, front drive is limited to around 280-290 hp, a V6 can do that. And more power isn't the problem, weight balance is. Front drive or any AWD car with a transverse mounted engine can't do what a rear drive car can do.

Best post ever on C&G. Wow, I wouldn't even go so far as to call it a Cimmaron for the 21st century, but the person described in the last paragraph is who will be buying this car. Another issue facing this car, is likely for the same money, one could get a Hyundai Equus, that is probably roomier, and is very well equipped and has a 400 hp V8 sending power to the rear wheels. If a LaCrosse can hit 4100 pounds, what will the larger XTS with the hybrid stuff weigh?

To steal a quote from Mr. Clarkson, "it's a large sensory deprivation tank, for rich, old people." This has geezer-mobile written all over it. It is the size of a Lincoln MKS, it is front wheel drive like a Lincoln MKS, it has a V6 like the MKS, and has an optional engine with 350 hp like the MKS. These huge, soft, boring front drivers don't sell, Cadillac has one already and it is terrible. Why do they keep appealing to the 1980s luxury car buyer that doesn't exist anymore? Problem 2, is what is Cadillac? Are they CTS-V and performance/luxury, or are they snooze-mobiles like a Lexus ES or LS. BMW and Mercedes are successful because every car has the same theme, Audi has the Quattro and LED front lights thing going, but every car is in the same theme. Cadillac is all over the map, trying to be like Lexus with one model, Lincoln with another, BMW with another. Luxury brands need identity, that is how they build image and get the big bucks for their cars. Another problem is this car works only in the USA, and even then it will probably be a slow seller. The Mercedes S-class works here, it works in South Africa, in the Middle East, in England, in Germany, etc. It works in London traffic at 5 mph, or on the Autobon at 150 mph. Anywhere you put it, anything you ask it to do, it can do. That is the measure of a great car. The exterior I find bland, except I like the grille. Cadillacs should have sharp edges, this is too rounded off, you can't be edgy and round at the same time, the STS tried that, rounded off doesn't work for Cadillac. Inside looks pretty good, but I dislike suede on anything but a head liner. The gauge display looks too hokey or cartoony, those LCD/LED screen gauges are nice when they look like traditional gauges, such as with the Range Rover or S-class. But with the XTS and new Lincoln MKX, it looks tacky.

The Terrain is an ugly looking vehicle in my opinion, and GM does have a reoccurring problem of cars tuned to get in the tallest gear just for the sake of mileage. This was a criticism of the Malibu when it first got the 4-cylinder and 6-speed, and has come up on some recent vehicles like the Equinox and Terrain. The 3.0's peak torque does appear at too high an rpm, if the engine is going to operate like that, then the transmission should hold gears longer.

I agree on people seeing that Toyota is bland and not as great as it is hyped up to be, but Toyota still sells a fair number of cars. The Camry outsold the Silverado in 2009, so it doesn't seem like Toyota is suffering, but I do think Hyundai/Kia can hurt Scion. Chrysler falling apart and Saturn and Pontiac closing helps a lot too. Value pricing in a recession is definitely big, followed by fresh, new products. Kia Forte and Soul and the Genesis sedan/coupe are bringing new people into the brand.

Indeed they are, but their cars aren't as boring. Hyundai in 10 years could be as big as Toyota is today.

That would be nice, but this is GM we're talking about. The beancounters won't be able to "build a business case" for a new rear drive platform and a new V8 engine, so I'm expecting another front drive V6 derivative of the Epsilon platform.

So the XTS is 2+ years away from dealerships, and the Impala replacement is probably a 2014 model. That means the current Impala has 2011, 2012 and 2013 model years left, yikes it is outdated already. This smells of platform sharing on Epsilon II but on the supersized version (as to differentiate a little from the LaCrosse). Looks like GM is doing the Taurus/MKS but 3 years later.

If you convert pounds to dollars, in England, a 530i is $56,800 and an E350 is $60,600. In Germany, the E200 starts at 39,000 Euro, which is $56,000 to us. The E350 starts at $51,000 Euro, which is $73,000 for us. The S500 in Germany is 100,000 Euro, or $144,000. Benz commands a price premium anywhere in the world.

But what of the new M5? It has KERS, which comes from this:

Cadillac doesn't charge $25,000 less to not gouge the customer, they charge $25,000 less because the car isn't as good and no one will pay $90,000 for a CTS-V. The CTS-V has the power and speed, but at the same time, a Mustang GT is faster than a CTS 3.6, but that doesn't mean the Ford isn't better than the Cadillac. The Mustang costs $15,000 less for a reason. BMW and Mercedes charge what they do because they have a good product that people are willing to pay for, not to gouge customers.

GM was not bankrupt in fall of 2007 when the CTS came out, or at any time in 2008. The CTS coupe could have been out in summer of 2008, 1 year before bankruptcy. Bankruptcy can't be used as an excuse. Everyone else is introducing new product and the competition isn't going to slow down or wait for GM to recover from their problems. Ford had financial problems also, their response was to bring their 2012-2014 products up to 2009-2012 to get ahead. The CTS-V is fine for an mid-range Cadillac, but GM acts as if it is some ultimate achievement, and right now it is the best Cadillac has to offer. The CTS-V can't be the best Cadillac has to offer. They have to sell it at a $25,000 discount compared to the competition, what does that say about Cadillac?

I like the CTS name, people know it, CTC will add confusion. But why summer of 2010 for this car, the CTS sedan came out in August of 2007, this is almost a 3 year old car as far as design and interior go. The car looks good overall, although I still like the sedan better because I don't like the coupe's rear window. The other problem I have with it, is the exhaust pipes, why are they round on a car that was drawn up with a ruler, nothing is circular on the CTS (aside from the tires), why aren't the exhaust pipes square or trapezoid shape? I think on the concept coupe they were. Will it have Kinetic Energy Recovery System like Formula 1 cars? Aluminum body panels, carbon fiber roof? Hmm, probably not, probably weighs 4200 pounds.

Finally the Genesis is picking up some, although $40,000 for a Hyundai is still a tough sell I assume. But all along I've though the purpose of the Genesis was not to sell a lot of cars, it was to help Hyundai sell Sonatas, Elentras, and Santa Fes, and so far that is working. This is why Cadillac needs a flagship ($90,000 territory), because even if they only sell 5,000 a year, it gives the brand credibility.