ocnblu

...blown up to poster size, please?

HOT NESS!

America

The Pontiac "image" and "spirit" and that potential will always be more attractive to me than "whatever" Saturn/Opel stands for. I use VW (and I love VW when they stick to their original premise of affordability) as an example of a European company who has lost favor here in the US... Saturn/Opel would seem to offer a similar image as VWNA... nice enough, but not "hot", not "gotta have". Local Saturn dealer has cars languishing on the lots, even with the Employee Pricing promotion, they cannot move an Astra. Their lot is full of every Saturn model, and every time I stop by there, the very same cars remain. Some here like to say Pontiac will be starved of product, but Saturn has been starved of purpose, which can be just as powerful in the eyes of the buying public.

I just got home from driving an '09 Focus SE coupe. For 2009, the SE is the "base" coupe trim level, but it comes pretty well equipped for about $16,800 MSRP. Black grille, darkened head- and taillamps, foglamps, low rear spoiler, and body-color power, heated mirrors and door handles lend the car a sporty look. The lack of fender vents cleans up the sides of the car. The one I drove was Brilliant Silver, with the Stone cloth interior. The paint really glistened nicely under the lights on the lot. I'd prefer the black interior, though, to better contrast with the silver center stack. The car I drove had no factory options, but was equipped just about perfectly, features-wise. The height-adjustable seat and steering column worked together to afford a commanding driving position. I set the seat to the fullest height off the floor and I still had plenty of headroom, even with my substantial 5'5" height. The seats themselves are large and well-padded, and the door armrests have a thick Rubbermaid-like pad, which beats the hard, cloth-covered (which would be harder to keep clean) Cobalt door armrests, imo. Everything is easily accessible and clearly marked. I appreciated the blue and red interior lighting. The radio seemed to have slightly weaker reception than my Sierra, but the Sirius feature is nice. I kind of missed the feel of a leather-wrapped rim on the steering wheel, but the optional Driver's Package includes, among other things, a leather-wrapped wheel. Driving the car, I noticed a slight amount of harshness on one certain stretch of road, otherwise the car rode smooth and quiet. The car wears Pirelli P6 tires, which impressed me because most Cobalts wear cheapo Hankooks. The Focus handled well on highway on- and off-ramps. I gave it a goose and it held its line nicely. The manual shifter worked smoothly, but had a bit less feel and longer throws than the sporty '09 Honda Fit I recently drove. The 2.0L engine seemed to have good power, no complaints about engine harshness, aural or tactile. It is a perfectly livable little car, with a nicely-sized trunk. I know a Ford is a good car, even though we GM fans love to hate on them from time to time. A cousin of mine bought a new '88 Escort and drove it for about 170k miles before retiring it, and I have an uncle who drives his diesel Ford trucks into the ground, racking up lots of towing miles. With my employee discount, I could buy the car I drove tonight for approximately $14k (a guess), not a bad deal at all. I expect to hear from the sales kid tomorrow around noon, after his manager "shops" my truck to a few GM dealer friends of his. We'll see what happens... and I have found an '09 Cobalt 1LT manual coupe in Silver Moss with Chrome Package at a dealer about 25 miles away, so I will head over there tomorrow and drive it to see, once and for all, how it compares to the other two small cars I've driven so far in this latest round. Stay tuned.

Borger, what are all these nonsensical words you are posting up in here?

What Camino says is true about Saturn. Simple.

An exceptionally cool Cummins Ram with tool boxes on the bedsides and a Nobama bumper sticker. Not sure why, but it just struck me as uber, uber nifty for some reason.

Can anyone tell us why the "views" counter is stuck at "0" in some threads? It's disconcerting. Thanks.

Glad to hear you're ok, sorry to hear about your losses. It's understandable that you might buy a GME product while the lights are out.

oversteer

Your attitude stinks, Borger. It stinks like bratwurst left out in the sun for like 3 days.

Uranus

Hahaha... WHEN did Saturn EVER turn a profit? NEVER! My mother owned two SL2s, a '92 and a '97. She liked her '92 better, but both were good cars for her. GM LOST THEIR OPPORTUNITY LONG AGO to keep Saturn relevant. Saturn is an albatross now as ever... a misguided experiment and a waste of money. The corporation would have been much better served to put that money into better J-cars for their core divisions, their legacy divisions, instead of this expensive diversion which has done nothing to further GM's cause, then, now or ever. Customers liked Saturn when they were separate from GM... now that Saturn is just another GM division sharing platforms... they have lost any reason to exist. THAT Saturn customer has moved on from GM, and they haven't captured anyone new. They're finished!

Thanks for clarifying, griffon. Orlando is a perfectly nice vehicle, but a horrible replacement for HHR (which should remain a 5 seater). I am not sure where it fits in a NA Chevy lineup, I mean it seems awful close to the new Equinox, since that vehicle is rumored to have a 4 cylinder engine standard. Will GMNA proliferate the Chevrolet model lineup to confusing levels as the Asian brands are wont to do? Not sure if that is a good idea.

loki, tell us more about your dreams. :AH-HA_wink:

Ah, dealership employee life, ain't it wonderful? *CHOKE* Good to see ya, 76.

kooky

Well I hope you serve more than just peanuts.

SAAB speaks to a tiny niche of the market. It is not worth the money because it is not a brand that can grow much beyond what it already is without pissing off the faithful. It's GM chasing rainbows again.

brownies

Hot or Not?

They don't speak to me. NO, I don't want one.

"Sad" doesn't begin to cover it. It would be outrageous, criminal and inexcusable for GM to kill Pontiac. They'll kill what's left of GMNA. They lost a big majority of Oldsmobile customers, never to return. Killing Pontiac would only further weaken their position. If GM management wants to run the company into the ground, let them, but I am not going down with the ship. f@#k GM if that's the case, seriously.

Saturn is a failed brand and should be killed. All that money pumped into them, with no ROI... clearly, they are much more of a drag on GM than Pontiac ever was.