Camino LS6

What? The question is inane. It's like asking how could someone not believe in Santa without mentioning the name. It has no value.

Yeah, and what do you conclude from that trend?

'tis true though, the colectivists are bombarding us with crap like this in every arena.

What's that old quote? I may not believe in what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it That's the jist of it anyway...

Well why not? With the retirement announced, why should he spout off? I'd be on vacation if I were in his shoes.

Glad to hear you say that. One of my favorites quotes goes something like this: "People pay for what they do, and more than that, they pay for what they have allowed themselves to become. And they pay for it simply, by the lives they lead."

OK wiseguy...

I have no issue with people paying for their choices. But I do have an issue with taking those choices away "for the greater good". Just thought I'd clarify that.

I don't know... She reminds me too much of my sister, so I don't think I could go there. Had to be the car.

Maybe. But it's your choice to make.

That is so wrong...

I'm pretty sure...

Funny. Most people who think they know where I stand on a given issue - just don't. :AH-HA_wink: Conservatives think I'm conservative and Liberals think I'm liberal. It cracks me up.

LaNeve denied this one too... What to think?

There are so few Dodge dealers around here that I really have no idea. But last night I saw one in dark blue (belongs to a chick), only a V6 car but so gorgeous. I felt the twinges of automotive desire starting...

Voted.

OK. I hope he has something definitive to say about something - anything. Limbo is not a good thing.

...or not. Back and forth, back and forth... At this point I have to wonder if it will even manage to be over when its over.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm tired of all the speculation. Call me when an actual decision is made.

This is precisely the sort of collective thinking that offends me so much. The sort we all should leave behind. Freedom is messy and imperfect - get used to it. Or surrender it.

Great discussion everyone! Thanks for that. Just to clarify a bit, what I am griping about goes way beyond politics. It is more a matter of philosophy and societal trends that have me so concerned. Political parties become irrelevant fast at that level.

Ford has my support ( at least moral support). And I'm already a registered Libertarian.

It's Founder's Day! Have a good one my friend!

Thanks guys. I think (for me at least) the question "what to do?" is quite real, and not really a lament. I really am looking for a good answer to the question. I'm disgusted by the hollowed-out nature of this country (and GM for that matter), and I want to help move things in another direction. Balthazar: Great post! And I am resigned to the possibility that anything from GM that I hold dear may be relegated to the past. It's those "larger" things that I feel like we are losing that, frankly, make me wish I was still 20 and armed for revolution. At 45, I need other weapons. SAmadei: So true. Messing with cars is a refuge, one that I depend on and am willing to protect. Getting where I need to go is right at the core of my qestioning, unlike so many here in the US, who whore themselves out for a higher place in the pecking order. Whatever I do has to matter to me or it doesn't work. Average has never worked for me. daves87rs: Your post hits my current thinking with a bullseye! Simplicity has been a central theme for me lately. Do we really need to live such complex lives? That is a place where our society fails miserably, and I'd like to change that. The things I was raised to believe in, to expect, to depend on, are all under assault as passe. All of my life I have watched us accept lesser ways of living, a smaller slice of a shrinking pie, and an abdication of freedom and self-sufficiency. I'm just not wired to accept that. Sacrifice and apologistic thinking are not something to measure progress by, nor a path to a better future. I can't join the collective that is forming around us, I'm sorry, but it is just wrong. Innovation and defiance, individuality and freedom, simplicity and privacy - those are watchwords I can get behind.