CARBIZ

Not to worry: it's a Portuguese cannon and probably never worked from new! The tour guide told us that when Portugal shipped the cannon over to this fort (that guards the bay entrance to Florianopolis in southern Brazil), its shot was too short to actually fire to the far side of the channel, thus the Spanish fleet could sail right on by and the Portuguese couldn't do a damn thing about it! :rotflmao: It's good to see that military incompetence is not a new phenomenon. (And I do know I was at the wrong end of the cannon, but there were a few older ladies present on this tour and I was hissing at my partner to take the picture quick while they weren't looking.)

I'll see you, and raise you 10"

Sigh again. Someone send this man to a Business 101 course: preferably in highschool! First of all, any business (let alone Big Business!) does not like a vacuum. Accountants and the actuarial guys go ballistic over 'unknowns;' therefore, a quantifiable insurance policy (or bribing a customer to the tune of $500 which may or may not be the actual cost of the policy itself on an individual basis) places a dollar value on any potential losses. Happy beancounters keeps them off the backs of the marketing guys. Another reason for the $500 'discount' (and this is coming from my 11 years of car sales experience) is that it shuts up certain types of buyers who will inevitably whine "well, I don't want to return the car, so what are you going to do for me?"

Sigh. It's been 6 months since I have been on C&G and this is the first thread I read. Not much has changed.

You really think the average driver (and when I say 'average,' I mean, like 85% of the population) needs or wants a Z06 or Suburban? The Sienna and Odyssey ARE what the average person NEEDS. They don't have a clue what they WANT. Madison Ave. has been convincing them for 25 years that doing switchbacks in the Alps is what they WANT. Those on C&G who cry doom and gloom every time RWD is cancelled or V-8s are threatened have to understand that the days of those beasts are numbered. This latest round of CAFE ratings, plus inevitable things like GPS systems that the police/insurance lobby will have real-time access to are going to kill any 'fun' in driving. Mark my words. To most drivers out there, a car is nothing more than an appliance, which is why Consumers Reports has become their bible, and why Toyota has done so well. Frankly, seeing a soccer mom sitting in a Sequoia or Tahoe is just makes me smirk. There has been nothing impressive about Toyota for years, but like VW, they've earned the respect of the 30-something wannabee Andretti-writers out there who are more impressed by the soft vinyl on a dash then the daily operating expense of a vehicle - because, after all, those writers haven't had to pay for mainenance in years.

Don't hold back, FOG - tell us how you really feel.

Simple supply and demand. Somebody must have figured out that there may be a glut of silver/grey Camries on the used car lots over the next few years. HELLO! Welcome to the Big Leagues, Toyota. The myth could only be perpetuated as long as you could generate huge sales gains every year. That's not likely to happen for a while - if ever again.

These guys moan and groan like auto sales in the U.S. are going to stay at '28 year lows' forever. Good grief, are these so-called writers that stupid? GM never expected to sell a quarter million of these a year. It might actually be a good thing that it comes out in a slow economy: it does neither GM or the dealer any good to sell a car they can't get, like the Mustang in '64 or the Magicwagon in '84. This is called perpetuating the doom and gloom myth, and that sells papers. US auto sales have been on the rocks for a year now, and if this recession follows the last 10, sales will rebound by the 4th quarter of this at the latest and then there should be plenty of pent up demand to propel 2010 auto sales at least to the pre-recession levels, if not higher.

Try and have this discussion with a social liberal: they will haughtily declare that we should be concerned about the welfare of worker's in Asia and Central Asia, that those jobs are just as important as our own. Of course, this would be coming from a liberal-arts graduated, unionized government-tenured person who has a job. All of these theories look great on PAPER, until those theories hit the true reality of human avarice, incompetence and sloth. With the amount of ingenuity and wealth in this world, there is no intellectual reason that every person on this planet should not enjoy the same standard of living as, say, the Swedes. However, once you try and enact the labor, corporate, technical and social policies to get to that goal, everything bogs down into AIS, as I said. The elephant in the room is that even if Europe and North America outsourced every single job it had to Asia and South Asia, the sheer number of babies coming online every day will ensure that labor prices will still be a nickel an hour in those countries, thus perpetuating the eternal poverty and ability to undercut any labor rate an average European or N American could afford to work for. And don't even get me started on the sheer amount of new natural resources the world would have to cough up if Asia or South Asia even approached HALF of our standard of living. As ugly as this downturn appears to be, the next will be much worse unless the West is willing to take a long term view of where all this is going. China may not be quite so conciliatory next time, either. Not when it is the largest military power and economy. I wonder who Japan will cozy up to then?

If U.S. auto sales stay sub-10M, it won't matter what GM does: nobody in America will have a job by then. You and I both know that 15M is acoming, and possibly even 20M with a rebound in the economy in 2010 or 2011. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Well, from what I can see, GM has acheived much of what it could have and still avoided Chapter 11. They've wrestled huge concessions from the unions involved, dealers are dropping like flies and it may even be easier to drop a brand or two with all the bad news about. I wouldn't be surprised if this was Wagoner's plan all along. The cost cutting that has taken place over the past several months has been huge and could only have been done while GM was on the precipice. There are dangers to this course, but if GM comes out the other end, leaner and meaner, it will be worth it. And I am saying this from the point of view of one of those casualties.

I'm with you on that one, Ted. I was not fond of the rear C pillar and tail light design of those bloated Chevys, but when I saw the wagon in the '91 brochure, it was love at first site, so I factory ordered one in two-tone, then had the windows blacked out, American Racing wheels put on and bazookas in the rear powered by a Panasonic pull-out Cd player and 200W amp. My friends at the time thought I'd lost my mind when I ordered this beastie, until they saw it finished up. I used it to haul my boat and canoe, sleep in the back and I spent a lot of time with my BF at the time in the back when we were dating. (He lived in Barrie; I lived in Collingwood at the time.) A true shagging wagon:

I'll bet you'll get a load of silence from the pro-globalization camp these days. Their myths and theories have blown up in their face. I am not sure protectionism is the answer, either. The free-flow of ideas and goods looks good on paper. Then again, so does Communism. Lately, I've come to think of the economy as a pyramid scheme. The CEOs of major multi-nationals get to justify their $100M a year paycheques by the wider the base of their pyramid. But how exactly does that benefit the average Joe on the street? The pro-globalizationists will quickly point to Wal-Mart and the apparent falling of prices. Okay, but if a toaster could be had from the States for $20, that might be a bargain. If the only reason it is $20 is because it came from China and 2,000 American workers were thrown out of work who used to make the same (actually better) toaster for $40, how does that benefit the average Joe if 500 of those American workers go on Welfare, 500 lose their homes and the other 1,000 get jobs for 75% less working at Wal-Mart? Again, the pro-globalization lobby will counter with 'more choices for the consumer' and (they would have until recently) had a strong argument that the economy was doing better, that the service sector was picking up the slack, etc. Do I really give a damn that when I walk into a Home Depot there are now 25 different types of Moon-rays for my back yard? Wouldn't 4 or 5 be enough to choose from? And I think we can now see exactly where those service sector jobs have ended up: either Bangalore or the pink slips on Wall Street - that's where. I am sure the 18 year olds working at the local cell phone store are making $60k a year, too. It's great that the products they are hocking are also made in Asia. That is where this has gotten us. Their parents might have been hocking a rotary dial phone, but at least that phone was made here and the research (Nortel, etc) was done here and the patents were controlled here. About 3 years ago, 2 things made me sit up and take notice: 1) the so-called experts crowing about how the longest economic growth in history was being driven by the 'consumer;' and 2) the current account deficit of the United States. It should have been apparent to any idiot a few years ago that the two are inter-related and neither could last forever. If everyone used their visa to buy toasters and cars, and if those cars and toasters were built overseas, and if those same governments we were buying toasters and cars from had to buy treasury bills to keep the Ponzi scheme flowing - well, I want to know who was asleep at the switch? Now every government on Earth is throwing cash at the banks (who started this mess in the first place) and, frankly, the only thing preserving us from a holocaust not seen since the 1930s is that hyper-inflation has not (yet) reared its ugly head. Or, that the Asians still feel obligated to us enough that they haven't yet decided to make a run on the U.S. dollar. Hmm, I wonder what Obama will have to promise to keep them from doing that.

The only two old cars I see a lot of around here are the original Beetle (and judging by the bumpers and lack of headrests, some of them are very, very old) and old Chevy Monzas. I did see a Ford Pinto today, though. The original Beetles were pretty hard to destroy, although they had the level of sophistication of a roller stake - that was their true beauty. In the absence of rust, they live forever in South America. But that is a far cry from building a modern, reliable car with airbags, ABS, all the requisite sensors, mult-like suspensions, etc. and making those indestructible and affordable. It's with those items that VW seems to be the most vulnerable. They know how to build a solid car, but it's the peripheral electrics, etc. that are their Achilles heel. Since Brazilian cars don't have any of that, they last a long time here.

What'd you call me?

The irony that Ford and GM considered VW unworthy of taking over at the end of WWII. Although this reads like just another press release, kudos to VW. It is important to have goals. Any business major knows that. Whether the goals are acheivable or not is an entirely different matter. But having the local state openly invested in your business and not having other states gloating and/or kicking at you (as in America) has got to be a big plus, too. If I were VW I wouldn't be gloating too much, however: they alone were positioned to dominate the small car market in North America at the end of the 1960s - what the hell happened? Toyota, Honda and others sell way more compact cars in what is (was?) the largest car market in the world. VW should have surpassed GM years ago, if they hadn't farted around with lackluster products in North America for the past 35 years. But I guess the Press would rather print their press release without those type of negative remarks.

toesuf, the trouble is getting to the point where you can SEE the difference. As any of us knows who have been long time gym goers or joggers, the first few weeks are a total bitch and you aren't likely to see any difference, especially if you are horribly out of shape. So many people expect to go to the gym twice a week and look like Wolverine after 2 weeks. (Unless, of course, you're a woman, in which case if you look like him after a couple weeks (TONE DOWN THE STEROIDS). And it depends on what you do at the gym. I saw way too many retards who would do a set of 10 on some machine, then fart around with their iPod, scribbled in a little notepad or READ. Good God! I sort of lost it on a woman one day when I had to keep waiting for machine after machine behind her and I snapped,"I'll bet you tell your friends that you work out for 90 minutes every day. Well, from watching you, I can say with confidence that you work out 15 minutes, and rest for the other 75." Yes, I know, I did read "How toWin Friends and Influence People." If you need to lose weight, then you gotta get your heart rate up, and you can only do that either by pure cardio (stair climbers, cross-trainers, whatever) or by circuit training with weights. If you're resting between sets longer than the set itself takes then you are wasting your (and everyone else's time.) But once you start noticing the calves thickening, or the triceps showing - wow, the buzz is worth it. How to get to that point is the challenge.

I quite agree. I forget the name of the book, but years ago I read where it was proposed that governments be chosen by lottery. Every able-bodied person over the age of 21 without a criminal record who was a citizen was in the lottery automatically - no exceptions. I've always thought that would be a better system than the crap we have now. Let's face it - who would want to put up with the BS, the personal attacks, the long hours, $h! pay (yes, $h! pay - do you know how much Clinton makes NOW?), unless you were in it for the ego and power. That should automatically disqualify a candidate, IMO.

I owned 2 video stores for 11 years, from '85 to '96. I remember our former parent company (National Video, who had 1,000 stores in the States before Wayne H even heard of Blockbuster) giving us a presentation in 1986 that video on demand was going to replace video rentals. There is a Blockbuster 6 blocks from my apartment here in Sao Paulo. So much for that prediction. On the face of it, the internet can inform, but since savvy companies have only moved their BS from print media to the internet, from what I saw, the internet was only paralyzing people. Auto sales has nothing to do with the product and everything to do with the human interaction. Every sales seminar I ever attended understood this. At none of the dealers where I worked did the #1 guy know as much about product as I did, yet they made a killling. The 'informed' consumer is never going to be absolutely sure he/she bought the 'best' car or got the 'best' deal, since both of those mean different things to different people and both of those change over time, even daily. In my 11 years of sales experience, the 'price whores,' were never happy with the vehicle they bought, or the deal they got. The people who bought into the sales experience drove away happier and MAYBE paid $5 or $10 a month more. If getting ulcers over buying a car every few years is worth it, then go nuts..............

As usual, Delorenzo is spot on. Perhaps some good will come out of this. As everyone loses their jobs, perhaps a pheonix will rise from the ashes once more. If this task force comes to realize what Japan Inc has known for decades (that is, incentives and monies for large companies that create jobs here), maybe some of this green shift tax dollars can be poured into Detroit, just like Toyota got for its Synergy Drive. Tit for tat, I say.

One thing being lost in all this bitching and moaning about 'bailing out Detroit,' is that when the economy in the States finally recovers in late 2009 or early 2010 there will be a huge pent up demand for autos. 2010 COULD be a 20M sales year. IF GM retained 20% of that figure, that amounts to 4M in sales, which is nearly where it was pre-cutbacks. GM COULD pull a Chrysler and pay back these loans within a couple years. GM has a lot of new vehicles in the pipeline, including the Equinox, Cruze and even the much hyped Volt. I know - that's a lot of COULDS; however, it would be a shame for all that money to flow out of North America and over to Japan Inc., dontchca think?

Well, one thing to be said for a dictatorship: the Three Gorges would never have been built in Canada. They would have formed a Royal Commission to study it and Jesus would return before a spade would be stuck in the ground. Dictators get things done, like it or not; while Democracies posture and obfuscate. China's meteoric rise seems on the face to be miraculous; however, as an inverse to GM's fall - when you started from nothing, anywhere is up.

Intrigued, it takes about a year or so before it becomes enough of a habit that you actually feel 'guilty' if you don't go to the gym. I went religiously for the past 9 years or so, but as OCN tactlessly pointed out on another thread, I haven't been going for the past couple months - and it is beginning to show. Try going every 2nd day. That worked well for me before. There is no way in hell I could manage jogging around here because of the heat, unless it was 2 a.m, and then I'd probably get mugged. There is a rooftop pool here, but two strokes and I'm across it, so it is useless for exercise. I've gotta find something to do, though: Mother Nature is a cruel bitch. After 30, she has no use for us at all and everything starts to sag and fall apart. It's work, work, work after that.

Let's see, what did I do today? Well, we drove to Praia Grande, about 75 minutes from Sao Paulo over some very cool mountains and through some amazing tunnels and sat on the beach. That was after an exhausting 5 minute walk to our favorite breakfast spot (which actually sells coffee the way I like it, not capuccino style). I have a bit of a sunburn now, despite wearing an 8 block, so I am going to apply some 'after tan' lotion and hit Avenida Paulista for dinner. I get to practice my Portuguese because the BF has run off to the other end of the city to meet up with a girl that used to work for him when he managed at McDonald's a decade or so ago. Avenida Paulista is amazing. Lots of cool buildings from the '50s and '60s along there. Lots of college students to oggle over, too, I might add. (After all, I am alone this evening.) My big plans for tomorrow are to take some shots of an 'auto mall' of sorts on Consolocao, about 3 blocks from here: there is a Chevy store next to a VW store, next to a Ford store. I see a lot of Fusions around here. The BF is having surgery tomorrow: getting hair implants. [sighs] He turns 40 in December, so I guess this is his version of a mid-life crisis. He got the Sagitarian tatoo on his back Tuesday. I would have preferred a red C4.