CARBIZ

OH, sorry, wrong thread. I saw 'Loud Whine' and thought we were talking about my ex-BF.

Any of the used Rendezvous that I have sold have made for happy customers. The nice thing about them is that odds are the original owners didn't abuse them or drive the piss out of them, so they have been 'gently' used. They have a decent ride. Okay gas mileage. There were fire sales on them 3 years ago so used ones are pretty cheap.

'59 or '69, doesn't matter which. I'd die a happy man if I landed in either year with a suitcase full of cash. '59 If I had to choose, it would be the T-bird. Secondly, probably an Imperial sedan. A Buick convertible - gotta love those knife-edge fins! '69 Chrysler 300, of course. Probably a convertible. I'd go for a Marauder or an Eldorado. The new Grand Prix were awfully nice, too.

As ugly as the Aztec is, we can't keep them on the used lot. These things fly off the lot. They ride and handle quite well, and with the neat seat configurations, clever features (radio controls in the back, for example) younger people and singles are oddly attracted to them. The trouble with Pontiac's obsession with plastic cladding is that it was cheap looking plastic cladding. The cladding done on the Escalade and other vehicles was far better looking. As with the later iterations of the Grand Am, Pontiac was trying for a 'look,' which did not appeal to me, but then their target demographic was a few years younger than my age, so it wasn't me they were trying to appeal to. I suspect that is the case with this gawdawful Toyota concept. I sincerely hope Toyota does build this thing, along with other equally hideous Toyota concepts that we have been subjected to lately. As was remarked earlier, the trouble with ugly designs is that they only have any appeal if they are original at least. If Toyota goes ahead and builds this affront to the senses, then they are clearly sliding down the same path traveled by GM about 20 years ago when GM began to have little regard for its designs, believing the American public woud buy just about anything it cranked out. Wait a minute, the more I think about it, that is just about right: Toyota is where GM was 20 years ago: arrogant and increasingly over confident. Go ahead, build this Tyco-inspired masterpiece.

And some people just like to baffle with bull$h!.

Yeah, but it's sort of like the return of platform shoes and wide legs: we know better now. The Aztec may have been ugly, but at least it was original. Honda and Toyota are just copying (read: Element) the Aztec formula of square, ugly lines. We KNOW the Aztec is ugly. The question is, do the Japanese?

HA! I see you your G8, CTS, TL and Town Car, and raise you one Previa, Thunderbird SC, Transsport SSE and Caprice wagon! (The wagon won - in January '91) How's that for wierd?

I guess the General doesn't want you proselytizing on their website! (Gay vibe through the internet and all!)

Usually, I can talk just about anyone out of buying a car. Hell, my mother is talking my sister out of a new Cobalt and into a new CRV (my mother has offered to buy it for her.) Maybe I should get my mother to email you.....................

Let me add to this fun list. In Toronto, if you illegally park on a busy thoroughfare, blocking traffic, the fine is $20. However, if you block a bicycle lane (on a quiet, side street, so as not to block traffic on said busy thoroughfare) the ticket is $40. I discovered this horror last year when I thought I was doing the right thing and instead of parking in front of my bank and blocking a busy street, I parked a half block away on an a quieter street. So much for common sense and doing the right thing.

It's a false assumption (hope?) that gay people would be any less judgemental or cliquish than any other group. In our increasingly crowded world, we as a species are in deep $h! until the powers that be realize that any given group will naturally want to exclude others. Trying to force 'unnatural' groupings is being done at our own folly. There is nothing wrong with everyone learning to get along, but to believe that everyone is just going to mix and mingle like one happy cocktail party is naive. Study any group of people at any gathering and they will always gravitate to their own kind. No amount of social engineering is going to change that. We can learn tolerance, even grudging respect, but there will always be that sense of 'us and them.' Having been around gay bars and clubs for nearly 30 years now, I have to say, like the auto market, the gay world is far more fractured than it used to be.

Well, a loaded LTZ is already $36k here, I suppose with 20" wheels, a Nav screen, dual exhaust and other necessities we could have a $40k Malibu while we are at it. I am sure glad you aren't in charge of marketing at GM.

It's the dichotomy of the sales psyche: Many in management assume that if you are that 'aggressive' and 'creative' by ripping off and cheating the managment, that you are dynamite with the customers. It goes back to the notion that the only good salespeople are the alpha-type personalities that can persuade people into making a decision. But its absolutely right, the point about management. Poor management don't see the real problems on the floor. For example: who is a better salesperson, one who talks to 100 people a month and sells 12 vehicles, or one who talks to 20 and sells 6? The trouble is, all that management will see is the 12 and the 6, not the 88 customers blown out the door, versus 14. When I was new in the business, I had a manager (who has been to about 8 dealers since) tell me to deliberately piss off the next 5 people who walked in the door. Seriously. He wanted me to prove I had the balls to badger these people to the point of them storming out. What I truly cannot believe is that this manager is still in the business! More and more, sales involves 'managing' your customers, managing databases, being computer literate, etc. Unfortunately, the assertive, killer type personality that should be good at closing is not necessarily good with a keyboard or in getting good CSI scores. Some stores get it and realize that a good sales force has to be nurtured and that a team has to be created. However, some still flounder around with 30 year old notions of what this business is, like working 12 hour days, endless paperwork and reports, irrelevant meetings on your own personal time, etc. I look around at many of my friends who are in different fields and it is slowly dawning on me that pressures to perform and always go faster, further, higher are creating massive stresses in people's lives. I doubt that is going to get any better soon.

You'd be surprised at how much bad behavior is rewarded in dealerships. In the dealership I left, the number 1 guy was involved in kickbacks through the business office, got caught using the company gas card in his own personal car, and I personally witnessed him threatening a Philipino customer because the guy hadn't call him back - now this guy is the #1 guy at another GM dealer in town. If someone puts stickers on the board (regardless how they get there), the Salesmanager of the Month (because they do come and go like revolving doors) are terrified of the guy and the owner/dealer kisses his ass, not realizing that he is the cancer on the floor, because the owner/dealer never actually knows what the hell is going on the floor.

And literally thousands of OnStar people were helped out of Katrina's way. GM showed us a map of New Orleans over the first couple days and the calls they got. They are set up for special emergency situations like that and can guide people out of harm's way: IN PERSON. How often is your Nav system updated? Can it talk to the paramedics when you are passed out? Can it tell the paramedics enroute that your car was hit 3 times and then rolled? But I guess you're right, nothing screams I paid too much money like a blipping light on a LCD screen that will go on the fritz in 3 or 4 years and costs a thousand to replace.

The sub-prime market is big business in Toronto: a lot of 'new Canadians' who get credit for the first time, go crazy, max everything and then get into trouble. I've seen a lot of 16% and higher car loans. Hell, I just had a guy last week who leased an Aveo from me 6 months ago and dropped by to upgrade it. I was surprised to see him on a weekday and he said that he wasn't working any more. The factory he worked for had closed up. I am thinking, then why the hell are you thinking about your payment going UP $100 a month???

Well, it is a game. Cat and mouse? Chess? If both sides would just be honest, everything would go smoother. I cringe when I hear people say, 'We're not going to buy today,' as an opening statement. Now that is a real ice breaker! Just what a commissioned salesperson wants to hear! People with bad credit could have gotten there through unforseen or unfortunate circumstances. It's just sad that once a person's credit gets bad, it can often get worse real fast. As my mother used to say (a retired accountant), the first rule of getting a loan is first you have to prove you don't need the loan, then the bank will give it to you. When you really need the money (or a break), none of the reputable lenders will touch you, and those who will take you to the cleaners with userous interest rates: just what someone who is trying to climb out of a hole needs!

So, a '03 Tahoe pulls onto the lot yesterday. A nice couple gets out, wanders around the show room. I greet them. They've had the truck for a year, they say, and their salesperson (whom they readily admit they don't like) told them that after a year or so they should be able to trade the truck in. (Oh, oh, I am thinking. Get out the backhoe.) So, I do a little more investigating. Mr. Customer's credit wasn't great a year ago, so Mrs. Customer had to co-sign. (Better make sure there is lots of gas in the backhoe.) Did you have a trade, or put any money down when you got it, I ask. No. (I'm going to need a special city permit for the size of this hole.) How many months did you finance over? Sixty. (Oivay, I'm going to need to borrow one of the diggers from Syncrude.) Straight away, I know that with a year or less, on a vehicle they conservatively paid $25k+k for (plus another $4-$5k in taxes and fees) they are hopeless buried. I tell them the good news up front: If you have $7k or so, we may be able to make this truck go away, but their payment will still go way up. They want a new Avalanche. (I am now wondering what they were smoking before they came onto the lot.) Mr. Customer goes out to the truck and gets his paperwork. Knowing that any hope of a commission today has flown the coup, my only hope is to win their trust and their future business. When I look at the paperwork, I realize they have only made 10 payments. Ouch. They are also paying 9.99%. Not bad for iffy credit. Mrs. Customer explains that her credit is very good. Hmm. I notice that she is #1 on the bill of sale. I want to figure out what they owe now, which is easily done on my financial planner calculator, but when I take the amount of the loan ($35k, I think) and punch it in, I am getting a payment of something around $720 a month, not the $630 or so on the bill of sale. Alarm bells go off. Who takes the money from your account, I ask. GMAC, I am told. I don't think so, I reply. We never use GMAC for used because their rates are higher. Mr. Customer goes back to the truck and gets more paperwork. I see the bank contact. Ouch: a subprime lender. So, 9.99 is pretty good, but I am puzzled why they are using a subprime lender if her credit is really good and she is #1. Still, I am more worried about why I am getting a payment of $720. I also notice a $520 lien registration fee, which should be around $75 in this Province. They were also charged $420 in 'admin' fees, $500 for tinting and $2,300 for a warranty. Mr. Customer (whom I am starting to think needs some sort of IQ test at this point) doesn't remember any of those charges - only the $630 or so that he agreed to. The first thing I notice on the bank contract is that it is a 60 month plan, amortized over 72 months. Oh, oh, BALLOON PAYMENT. I pointed to the line on the bank contract that states a near $8k balloon payment after 5 years. $11,000 in interest and he will still owe almost $8k at the end. At this point, I shove the paperwork across my desk to him and say I have to stay out of this. My license restricts what I am allowed to say to him about a deal he has done at another dealer. Another GM dealer, I might add. He has been screwed up the ass, without a condom or a 'reach-around,' but I have to coach my language carefully. He was never told about the balloon payment. Legally, he is screwed. They signed everything. They are adults. I told him to go back to the dealer he bought it from in June and see if they can help, but I know they will just tell him to jump in the lake. He is going to end up paying $53,000 for a $25k truck. I told him to ask the 'bank' if they can pay out the loan now. They would be better to get a consolidation loan form a reputable bank at a lower rate, but I know this insitution won't let them out of the contract. What really irks me is that if her credit is good, why did the dealer not resubmit their deal to a good bank, once they put Mrs. Customer as #1? Probably because the sub par lender was giving the dealer a huge kickback. These people were bewildered and visibly upset when they left. My boss asked me what was going on, and I told him. I would never, ever agree to such a loan for my customers. Sure, Mr. Customer's credit probably needed rebuilding, but paying $53k for that truck is not the answer. Take a Cavalier for 3 years to rebuild. I am pissed at my fellow dealer for ripping these people off, but sadly, it happens a lot. It makes my job so much harder. One of my former managers said I was too honest for this business; that I lose a lot of sales because I don't just slam them into a car and move onto the next deal. I don't think like that. I try to educate my customers and do what is good for them, even if that means going to Ford or somewhere else. I don't know if my current bosses would want to hear that, but that is how I think. I hope they report this salesperson to OMVIC (that governs dealers in Ontario) But what really burns my ass, is I will bet this assclown is making double what I do.

Uplander will continue production until December. Sometime after June, they will be rebadged as '09s for Canada only. The TB/Envoy and Tahoe do not sell well here. We are up to $4.25 a gallon gas. Like it or not, our market is in many ways 'ahead' of the U.S. when it comes to vehicles. What sells here WILL be selling in the U.S. a year or so down the road. The only trucks that I sell a lot of are the Uplanders, with the odd Equinox and HHR thrown in the mix. Interesting reaction the other day: a man with a '05 Xterra that he can't stand. He has looked at the Rogue and although he likes it, he still thinks it is 'too girly.' He came to look at the TB, which I explained nobody has. He was shocked that they are over $40k (Canadian). I showed him an Equinox with cloth and AWD. (Still $32k, I might add) He HATED the cloth. IS ANYBODY AT GM LISTENING??? His exact words were 'f@#king cheap.' How was I to argue with that, when I agree with him? Even though the Equinox is $45 a month cheaper than the Rogue (this guy had a lot of Visa points), I doubt I will be hearing from him again. The truck looks good, rides good, gets decent gas mileage, but the seats are ugly as hell.

Scrapping what minivans? Ford is doing very well with the Edge. the Uplander/SV6 are also doing very well (#2 in Canada - ahead of Toyota and Honda). There will be '09 minivans (Canada only) There is also a planned replacement for next year. (Although GM is being tightlipped about that just now.) Not everybody wants to spend $30k for a minivan. Some soccer moms are on a budget and don't give a $h! about pulling .95 G on a skidpad.

I'll bet the number of people who don't bother with their Nav system after 3 years is the same as the number of people who don't bother with OnStar, the difference being: the OnStar didn't cost $2k (or more with 'packages') It's ironic that the same people who could never program their VCR are the same people with the money to afford Nav systems. OnStar is far more user friendly, their is no learning curve and is cheaper than Nav systems by themselves. The OnStar advisor can save your life. Is that not worth something????

The 2-mode Tahoes and Silverados are going to be the right product at the right time. Things could just as easily turn on Toyota. Their billion dollar truck plant is starting to look like a boondoggle. Granted, they can afford a few boondoggles, but GM probably figured that, too, 15 years ago. We often have this argument, you and I, about GM having to have segment busting vehicles in every segment. Nothing GM does at this point is ever going to return it to the glory days of 20 years ago. Nothing. What GM needs to figure out, is how to be profitable at 20% market share, close enough dealers to keep it there, refresh its portfolio more frequently than every 6 or 7 years, and (most importantly) market itself better. GM was living in a fool's paradise at 45% market share. No company can ever hope to sustain that. Look at Microsoft's market valuation tumbling. Where are the Rockefellers today? The challenge for those at the bottom of the ladder (like me ) is how to adapt in this new reality. Fortunately, for me I started in the car business just as GM began its real downward spiral (late '97). I never knew what it was like to sell cars in the Good Old Days. I am used to fighting for every customer and picking the fights I can win. All around me, I see the old timers who have been selling cars for 20-30 years and they look shell-shocked. The Volt will hit the market. GM knows it has to. It will probably be late. It may fall short of our expectations, but a lot of Toyota's recent releases have fallen short of the mark, too. Five years from now, we will still be having this argument, but I will bet that GM will still be number one, Toyota number 2 and we will find all new threats and challenges to spar over. EDIT: Will bet? Ha! I have bet. I turned my old company down flat by working for their Toyota store (I don't suppose sending the Jalopnik picture of the Toyota NASCAR team being towed by the Silverado helped my cause :AH-HA_wink: ) I am betting my life, my mortgage and my future on the future of GM.

Yikes, if you are drinking daiquiris at 8:30 in the morning, things must be worse than we thought!

I don't know what to say...........congrats? It's a priviledge and a right to live in a society where we get to choose our method of suicide?

You know there is something truly evil and sick about the Corolla owner: look at the garage! It's empty! The garage is actually used to park the car! I think a report should be made to Homeland Security!