CARBIZ

Sorry, not at home to check my references, but from memory, Pontiac and Chevrolet were selling like 3-400k wagons a year (Chevrolet in those days had a wagon in every line practically); whereas, Cadillac traditionally sold about a quarter million units a year through the '60s. Today, very few nice wagons exist (especially up here where lack of car washes or waxing really took their toll), but I still see the odd '60s Caddy drive by.

I'd love to buy a late '60s Chrysler T&C wagon because it would have all the toys I have become addicted to, be fast as hell, be (somewhat) fun to drive but have the flat load floor that I need for my dog, camping, etc. Trouble is, most wagons are gone, gone, gone - even the luxury ones. They got no respect, not even when new. Pretty much everyone in our family had a wagon at some point in the '60s and '70s. (My stepfather drove us to Vancouver in the Spring of '67 in a '59 Ford wagon!). I've looked up sales charts for the '60s and GM and Ford sold MILLIONS of them, but where are they today? Seriously, a lot more Pontiac and Chevy wagons were sold in a single year than Cadillac ever dreamed of putting over the curb, yet eBay and other places are chock full of pristine Caddies for sale, but almost NO wagons. Kudos to you in keeping a part of history going!

Absolutely gorgeous! I have real respect for any older wagons because of the abuse they received when they were new. We had a '66 Pontiac wagon when I was a kid and I remember one camping trip with 5 of us and two weeks worth of crap on the way to the campground - the back bumper was nearly dragging the ground. That heap got a ton of abuse from our family. So it is especially amazing to see these old survivors today!

Unless you live on a "border" state you probably wouldn't be aware of the huge backlog both our countries are experiencing, due to the new regulations that were to take in effect this year (but I now understand have been delayed again) that will require all persons crossing the U.S/Canada border to show a passport. Homeland Security has been pressing for this for a couple years. Washington has approved it, I believe, but various governors of Michigan, New YOrk and others have been opposing it. For Canadians, it usually takes 10 days or so to get a passport for pick up, but my partner was recently warned that it may be "several weeks."

Did I miss something? Is he moving out of the mansion and into the poolhouse?

As I am sure you know, there are two sets of "lowering prices." The first when the dealer won't budge on sticker because there is a line for the vehicle, and the second when the manufacturer realizes it goofed on the "market price" and has to throw in incentives and rates. When a vehicle is hot, the dealer won't come off MSRP, or at least not by much. So wait a few months. Or see if you can get a better deal on a factory order. If the manufacturer "raises" prices, the media goes ballistic; if the dealer charges over list, C&G posters go berserk! :AH-HA_wink:

Of course, you do realize they are just coming out. As with the Solstice, Sky and other recent models, better pricing come to he who waits.............. I drove to Peterborough two weeks ago and was tripping over Acadias. I am sure the chattering classes in Riverdale and Rosedale will at least look at the Buick because the Press is telling them to. In a sea of shiny BMWs and Lexi, there will be a few trail blazers (no pun intended) who will want to show up to Mitzi's fundraiser in something different.

The same clowns who would pay $45k for a MDX?

With respect to the minivan market, Chrysler knows exactly what it is doing. The word "sporty" and "minivan" do not need to be used in the same sentence. It is not necessary to have 240 hp and gorgeous pictures of said minivan driving sideways on the Bonneville salt flats. As gasoline hits $4 and beyond, Chrysler would be wise to position itself to capture the market as it rapidly downsizes itself, not unlike what happened in the late '70s. The so-called "cross-over" niche is a cute ploy by the marketing boys to pussy-foot around the concept of the minivan once again, being as the mandarins in the media have convinced us that being caught in a minivan is like sleeping with your sister. The "cross-overs" are just another kick at the can, and I don't think that market will be more than passing fad. There are a significant amount of people who require a vehicle to carry 6 or more people and groceries at the same time, while not requiring a new mortgage to fill the tank. I doubt Chrysler is losing much sleep over the HOnda or Toyota vans. Considering there is a $10k price difference (up here), the markets don't really meet. The import humpers will buy anything Toyota or HOnda dish out (example: Element) and charge whatever they like. Chrysler has maintained a pretty impressive lead over the past these past 23 years in the minivan market. It is GM and Ford who should be ashamed, not Chrysler. Chrysler's quality has improved quite a bit with the last generation and there are many, many loyal Caravan owners. My parents are one of them. I know of many people who would not consider a SUV-based vehicle. Unless you are towing or hauling, SUVs are the WORST of both worlds, IMO. The minivan still strikes the best compromise of utility and efficiency. Take a look at what a Tahoe or Sequoia can do, for the price and size, then take another look at a Grand Caravan. Seriously. Dodge can straddle the low and mid-priced fields, while the Chrysler brand can and should capitalize on the Town and Country name. I remember my uncle's Town and Country wagon, and it was synonomous with elegance and prestige in the late '60s, before we were brainwashed into believing that wagons and hatchbacks are a bad thing.

Too many reporters chasing too few stories. What really needs to happen is a few hundred irrelevant newspapers and media outlets to close shop so that the remaining can start reporting meaningful stories.

Gee, I wonder what kind of gas mileage I was getting going up Hamilton Mountain (on hwy 5, actually) with my '91 Caprice and 20' Bayliner behind me? I wonder if the hybrid would have helped?

Take that, Detroit Free Press. Why doesn't this get wide coverage over here? OH, that's right: they'd rather print doom and gloom pieces about GM going bankrupt to scare more consumers from considering GM.

Lawrence Welk on acid?

Exactly. The shortage of 30 years ago was artifical, caused by OPEC curbing production. The shortage today is also artificial, squeezed by oil companies that, for once, are on the side of environmentalists when it comes to blocking any new refineries or expansions.

You stick to what you know and I will stick to what I know. I guess the Fleet Manager of our dealership must be playing PacMan all day in his office. Oh, and Enterprise is the name of a starship, not the rental company that picks up vehicles every couple months - to the tune of a hundred at a time. Revenue Canada? Yeah, the Tooth Fairy supplies their cars. Gee, where does the Toronto Transit Commission get their trucks? What're ya smokin' man?

Not really: 3 little pills taken before bedtime Cost: $1,400. That's, like, $15 a pill, a day. Actually, one side benefit is that I occasionally wake up in the middle of the night, horny as hell, higher than a kite! boyfriend is not amused! Still, I feel sorry for anyone taking this regiment who is not experienced with psychotropic drugs, because I can't imagine any "innocent" going through this. I am told most people have no side effects, but I am in the lucky 10%. The side effects are lessening. I now sleep through most nights. So, yeah, government healthcare is bad, but if I didn't have it, I might be dead. $1,400 a month would put a serious dent in our budget. I don't know if I would want to put my partner through that. It might be better (in that case) to stage a fight and demand he move out, for his sake. Still, life is good. (Sorry, don't want to scare anyone. I am not the walking dead. I still have customers, male and female hitting on me. I still "got it". ha, ha) I did lose 12 lbs back in January and DID look like the walking dead, but now I look 29 again. Hit the gym with a vengeance..... wait a minute, what does this have to do with credit card debt???????

Sorry, I don't buy that. Gas prices here (and we EXPORT to you guys!) have remained steady at $4 a gallon since February. They had dropped down to $3.50 or so, but as Yellow Dart said, we have reached at new "comfortable" plateau. The oil companies are now behaving like OPEC: a slow, steady rise that will not wreck the economy. OPEC learned from their reckless ways in the '80s. Don't kill the Golden Goose, just leave it maimed and breathing badly.

Good call on the debt thing. It really can snow-ball. Add a couple nasty, unforseen shocks in your life and you can find yourself in deep doo-doo. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Ten years ago my (now ex) partner and I were, like, $25k in debt to CREDIT CARDS, plus a payment on my power boat, mortgage - we had it all. An unforseen career change and moving to Toronto, followed by his braking his knee and being off work for 3 months, then a few months later I smashed up my Caprice, giving us a huge lease payment on a spanking new Blazer, plus my insurance doubled. Well, recipe for disaster. At one point, we needed $4,300 a month CLEAR just to keep afloat. It was not pretty, and we were not big spenders when it came to frivolous things (booze, for example, although he did smoke). I now have one visa with a $1,000 limit and it is paid OFF. I clear it off every month. The boat is gone, the Blazer is long gone, that free-spending boyfriend is gone, I have no mortgage, a company vehicle and I have ZERO debt and a lot of savings. It is a serene feeling, knowing that I can quit my job tomorrow and NOT worry about money. Oh, one slight, important thing: in my case, I am very, very glad I live in a "free" healthcare system because my pills cost my partner's union $1,100 a month. We pay the other $300 "deductible." I jokingly tell close friends that I have 43 months to live because that is when his $50k "lifetime" drug coverage expires. However, I have already applied for Trillium drug plan in Ontario, which will pay most of it if he quits his job or I hit the$50k threshold. I know all about unforseen circumstances, and although I am the first person to admit the government health system is a mess, for some people , it is a lifeline.

But as with any fire sale, if the guy is in a hurry and can't take his time to wait for a deal, then he is going to get hosed, for sure. Ever try to sell a house in a quick sale? Not pretty, especially in a contracting market. Mr. 6-pack doesn't get a lot of sympathy from me if he is shopping a Tahoe anyway It is a bit of a "in-one-hand-out-of-the-other" really. "Lose" 5k on an Impala that you bought 2 years ago, but "gain" loyalty credits, stackable RDCs, you name - GM has got it. They just announced 72 month financing up here for the first time. Ford is doing "family pricing," GM has to counter with something. Toyota does not offer any of this stuff, so who is getting the better deal? You would be surprised at the number of people who come in and buy just because of the "deal." They get pissed because Honda "won't deal." I lost a deal to two women on an HHR who bought a Mazda 5 because the guy gave them "invoice," whatever the hell that means. Products be damned, as long as the Big Three are thrashing it out amongst themselves, the marketing boys are going to be drunk on incentives. I forsee a repeat of the mid-1950s when Ford and GM went at each other's throat. There are a lot of parallels, frankly. In the meantime, a one or two year old buy is only a deal if you can afford to pay cash, or at least put a lot of money down. That is true of all used cars, not just GM. Both Canada and the U.S. are headed for a crash because consumers are carrying record amounts of debt. There will be very few cash buyers in the future.

But we are all in the business or at least pay attention to the business so WE notice how many of what models are at the rental agencies. I have been a car jockey before - trust me: most people (especially women) can't even remember what THEY are driving. I doubt very much they would notice, or care, what pollutes the rental lots. Because I am bored right now, I did a mathematical exercise to allay the concerns about depreciation. These are actual numbers, albeit Canadian. A 2007 Impala LS would sell for about $26k, including freight. That is before visa points, stackable credits (a $1,000 one just started yesterday, BTW), etc. That is not MSRP - I am allowing the dealer to make some money! Most people on this board pay CASH, I suspect, so they do not factor in the cost of money, but let me do that. $26 + taxes = $29,640 (this is Canada, after all) The new Impala is 0%, 60 months, so your payment is $494. Currently, a 2006 Impala with about 25k km, sells for about $19k on our used car lot. $19 + tax = $21,660. Ah, you say, the used one depreciated $8,000 if you include the tax. True, but that is for the CASH customer. What happens if you throw in the 8.75% interesest (two of our banks just raised their rates this week). Your payment becomes $448 for 60 months. Do the math 494-448 = $46 a month cheaper for a 1 yr old car with nearly half the comprehensive gone. 46X60= $2,760 in REAL savings? Is that much depreciation for the AVERAGE consumer? I'd say not. Do your own math, even if you had a line of credit secured against a home and got the used car loan at 5%, the payment would be $409 a month, for a total savings of $5,100. But you can use up to $2k in visa points and there is the stackable credit. This is why I chirp about the cost of ownership and the true selling price of vehicles, not some fictional MSRP that blue book and all these other revered sources use.

Well, let's face it, the Aveo has a 5 Star rating, but that is if it drives into a brick wall! If you slam it into a Ford Excursion - well, I don't suppose there would be any stars at all, unless they were the cartoon kind. All those tests are done in a vacuum, supposedly to keep them uniform, but anyone who drives into a brick wall, head on at 45 mph, deserves what's comingn to 'em!

I guess fleet buyers know a good deal when they see one. Look, we've beaten this to death before. Fleet is a sale. In Canada, they still go through the dealer, the dealer still gets paid. Usually, the deal is a couple hundred over invoice, then there is some kind of fleet "rebate" of $1,000 to the dealer. Big deal. GM employees get a better deal than that. There are some 30 year veterans in Fleet departments at dealers than I know of. They've got relationships with government agencies, big companies, etc. that goe back to Studebaker days! Toyotas and Hondas COST more to buy, COST more to maintain and they have to break into established Fleet Departments at Big Three dealers. I don't know where the impression is made that somehow Detroit is losing their shirts on selling these vehicles. Since they don't offer 0% and a lot of other things on Fleet deals, I suspect they may make MORE on some of the deals. Do you think Sony cares if Future Shop dumps 1,000 TVs at their cost? No. They laugh all the way to the bank. Notwithstanding the figures listed here (I am assuming they are American numbers, no?) Malibus and Impalas are quite scarce at the auctions up here these days. GM warned us about 6 months ago that they would be cutting back, and it looks like they have. Still, if a rental car company comes to my boss and wants to place an order for 200 Malibus, is he going to say no?

Sadly, all the EPA numbers are pretty bogus, especially with smaller engines that are low in torque (read: most Japanese engines). These engines suffer dramatically when driven in the real world. Both Toyota and Honda have been accused of designing and building vehicles that do well on the tests, but perform less than spectacularly in the real world. Honda's apparent "lying" would be proof, I would submit. Although the manufacturer will blame the driver (doesn't that sound familiar - Toyota's coking problem?), any city driver is going to see a significant drop, unless they drive like my Great Aunt. (and she is dead.) Bad publicity is great, but all this world needs is another LAWSUIT.

Around here every brat has a cellphone with Children's Aid and a lawyer on the speed dialer. If you even look at one cross-eyed, you are hurting its feelings and could answer to the authorities. I wish I was joking. I have seen these kids with their "time outs" and their "sharing of their feelings." It frightens me, in the way the Stepford Wives was eery. (The original, not the sad one from a few years ago.)