CARBIZ

You know, with the recent tenders for the Volt and the Opel product going to Saturn, it seems like someone in Detroit is on the right track. There has been some big changes in the product lines in the past 3 or 4 years. I wonder how many people (read: media) appreciate how profound the changes have become. Let's just hope the UAW/CAW pitches in and helps GM kick Toyota's ASS.

The Avalanche has done all that for years - and with a better ride.

Perhaps changing the frames from glued together popsicle sticks to balsa wood would constitute HD for Toyota. Might help with the 4 star crash rating, too!

CRAP, and total BS. With the rust problem that we have up here, there are not that many older Corollas or Civics from that era left - certainly not with a 1/2 million kilometers. I would not fault Toyota's drivetrain, but their bodies were not all that great in the '80s, so if you are seeing any clunkers still around, I would doubt very much that they have that much mileage on them. NOt around here. Maybe in B.C. or Arizona In fact, we have a fine specimen on our front lawn advertising Car Heaven!!! Rust everywhere!

CONSPIRACY THEORY??? My friend, I studied Japanese trade policies in University. I suggest you look up MITI and see what they have been up to in the past. RECENT past. Ask Houdaille International, a Texas based tool and die manufacturer that entered into a 10 year agreement with a Japanese company, then had their "partner" export and market the same machinery in the U.S. after tearing up their agreement. When Houdaille tried to send lawyers to Japan for discovery, their visas were cancelled by the Prime Minister's office. Where are all the TV manufacturers? Zenith, Electrohome and others once dominated that industry, until MITI started kickbacks on sugarbeet quotas for Toshiba and othes so they could dump TVs on the American market. Do not talk to me about CONSPIRACY THEORIES, my friend. Do your research, then tell me how you truly feel about buying Japanese. MITI has a very strong mandate. Read Iaccoca's first book - he touches on the subject. One parting comment: if none of this is true, then why is Japan not doing very much business in China? The Chinese would rather deal with the British, the Dutch, the Germans, us - anyone, as long as they are not Japanese.

Hilarious and very sad at the same time. I guess the military never studied their history either (sorry, blackviper), but the ancient Greeks used to put gay lovers on the front lines because they would fight HARDER to protect one and other - they became ferocious warriors. Alexander the Great also used to employ this type of troop deployment. Just part of the history that can never be spoken. SHHHHHHHHHHHH!

So, you're equating Japan's rape of Manchuria (estimates of 10-15million dead) with what America has done - when? Hiroshima? Firebombing of Dresden? Doesn't even come close! The past is not in the past, my friend. American pharmaceutical companies were complaining as recently as the 1980s that there were government documents being circulated to Japanese companies that gave them an edge in certain testing of drugs and procedures. Opel may have done a lot of questionable things during WWII to stay in existence, but that isn't the same as how Nissan was formed. Not by a long shot. Henry Ford may have been an anti-Semite, but he also was one of the first to hire black workers in the Detroit area and kept a personal friend around, who happened to be black, for a very long time. And something a little closer to home, blackviper8891, is what we are NOT taught in our schools about gay history. I sat through an entire year of Classical Studies in highschool where we studied the ancient Greeks and Romans, yet the only mention of the importance of homosexuals in their societies was not even whispered about. Oh, except a few snickers about the island of Lesbos! Disappointed, I walked into the Reference Library at the University of Toronto and you couldn't pick up a single book that didn't have pictures of tapestries, urns or statues of two guys screwing each other! I was 17 and I was outraged at how this was completely surpressed. So, no, I will not let the past die, because it is very important to all of us. Chinese diplomats have lodged numerous protests that Japanese schools are rewriting text books to downplay what happened in WWII. We must always be diligent, lest we are doomed to repeat history.

Okay, never said anything different. The parable was all one sided, and all I was doing was rebutting it. On the $h! front, Japan Inc and Detroit both built $h! in the '80s, its's just that there was a lot less Japanese $h! on the road; therefore, fewer disgruntled customers to remember that $h!. Plus, the Japanese $h! had fewer kernels and was easier to pinch out so there was less cause for constipation or other maladies. For every Tercel stinking up the highways 25 years ago, there was 5 Chevettes or 2 Omnis. I remember them all and remember them well. There is lots of blame to be shared - again, nobody said differently, but to ignore fact that Detroit is in the fight of its life with one arm tied behind its back is naive at best.

Ah, but as usual with revisionist history, you have not copied the entire parable, only the Japanese translation of it: MITI was formed by the Japanese to ensure that no other car manufacturers in the WORLD can EVER compete with the Japanese car companies on their own turf. Thus, they had the breathing space and government support to best decide how to assault the North American market, and it only took them 30 years to figure it out (1950-1980) (Interesting side bar to this parable, boys and girls, is that Toyota and Honda do not enjoy anywhere near the market share that they do here anywhere else in the world; similarly, note that Japan is the only country in the world where domestic auto sales are, like 90% home grown ) Ford's factories are 100 years old and unionised. We can debate to death (and we have, for you newbies) whether unions are passe or not, but Detroit has to deal with them, Japan Inc. does not. The Japanese get to cherry pick the best regions of our countries, get the biggest kickbacks from local government, then look like heroes while they open their shiny, new plants and save our country. Shrewdly, they pick areas where people are glad to have ANY job, let alone a permanent, full time one, and then treat them just well enough to keep them out of the clutches of the UAW. And why is Japan Inc. doing all this? Because they almost got their asses kicked in the early '80s when Detroit was able to muster up enough support due to the imports everywhere. So, to get around the Auto Pact, they have opened just enough factories here to muddy the waters so that even supposedly well informed people can debate to death whether an Accord made in Ohio is more "American" than an Impala built in Oshawa. I can't comment on the corporate structure of General Motors, or any others, but I do know that Japan Inc. has the huge advantage of being able to build a ground up organization, new and fresh, with all of the latest ideas, while enjoying a completely protected market at home, artificially lowered currency AND free medical for their employees over there - while GM and Ford have had to evolve from an existing foundation. Parables are cute, but like most parables, entirely too simplistic. Great entertainment for 5 year olds, don't you think?

Clearly, you never drove the Cobalt. Even the base LS has a better ride/handling than the Corolla. I drive them back to back with clients all the time: no contest. And the woodgrain is not standard on the Cobalt. Most have the brushed aluminum look. Incidentally, the posted Cobalt pic above is from the 2006 model, not 2007. The Pioneer speaker package with 10" sub in the trunk is a $300 option on any level of Cobalt, making it the best damn kick-ass system available in the lower classes. Even the cheapest package has decent speakers. Sounds to me like you met a good salesman at the Toyota store, he got you sipping from the punch bowl and now you are commited, literally. Unless you paid cash (and even then, the Cobalt LT is priced less than the Corolla CE and has more equipment), the Cobalt is a LOT less in payments. Do not get sucked in by sticker prices. Around here, there is a $750 retail delivery credit on the LT AND two loyalty programs (including Toyotas, Hondas, VW, etc) that can knock off another $1,000 or $750, depending on what you or anyone in your family is driving!) This is the trouble that price whores get into. They don't stick to one dealer and build up a relationship. If they did, they would be able to take advantage of programs and time their purchase just right - and save a bundle.

Ya didn't like the LOOK of the Cobalt sedan, but you did the Corolla? Note to self: avoid Kansas. Don't even take flight that flies over Kansas.

I think this (hijacked) thread is seeing a clean split, based along ageism. Kiddies, don't assume that what they taught you in highschool is the truth. Dig a little deeper. Go to a good reference library and dig, dig, dig. History is never irrelevant. Japan Inc has not stopped fighting WWII. Only the uniforms have changed. They are a deeply proud, nationalist society and many of them haven't forgiven what happened 60 years ago. Why should we? Nissan was formed in Manchuria by the Department of Defense to build tanks and trucks using slave labor, and financed by the military bank. Bet you don't see that in their glossy corporate brochures? While Germany takes all the glory for the Holocaust, Japan pretty much got off scott free, although they murdered a lot more innocent Chinese civilians. Do you know how many complaints have been filed by American pharmaceutical companies because Japanese pharmaceutical companies have access to military records on torture? I mean, how long does it take to kill a man in water at 5 degrees celsius? What we are "taught" in our enlightened school system borders on propaganda, too, although I would have to say ours are far better than theirs. Remember, text books are written by the victors, not the vanquished. But WWII didn't end the way most wars are supposed to end - with the annhilation and wiping out of the enemy. Instead, in our more enlightened society at the time, we chose to rebuild and pat them on the head. So, this gives Japan the opportunity to rewrite their version of what happened, and downplay the bad things. How about a million Korean woman dragged into servitude and prostitution for the uniformed boys? Maybe we should have done what Attila and the boys would have - just wipe them out and be done with it? If none of this phases you, if none of this effects your buying decisions, then I challenge you to visit the next Remembrance Day ceremonies and talk to some of the old buggers who fought over there. Do it while you can, before they are all dead and forgotten.

A glowing write up on a BMW? Imagine that. Anyone notice the paid advertisement down the side? On a related note, Laurance Yap, a supposed writer for the Toyota Star, who loves anything imported, did a fluff piece on driving his buddies to a stag in a Porsche Cayenne, which Porsche handed him the keys to for that express purpose. I refuse to read any of these articles because they are meaningless drivel. Sorta like Lenin expounding on Marxism. Why would you expect any dissenting opinions? Just bundle up your $60k in twenties and mail it to Germany, I say. For the same money, I'd rather drive a '59 Biarritz from Barrett-Jackson. Turns more heads, holds its value better and wouldn't ride like it was a shopping cart.

TRADE IT! Car Heaven will give you $1,000.

I couldn't disagree more. The Aisin trannies are crap, pure crap. Drive an Optra, then a Cobalt and you'll se what I mean. The Optra gets horrible gas mileage and the shifts are noticeable. The Camry 4 spd transmission was the same. GM needs to keep its transmission and engine plants - why give everything to the competition? Look at what happened when GM sold off that plant last year - didn't Toyota turn around and buy it to make more capacity to compete with GM directly? Why are Hondas engines so good? Answer: they build reliable, efficient small engines. Perhaps (and I am just saying perhaps) Chrysler wouldn't have undergone such a downward spiral in engineering during the '80s if they'd kept their marine division, instead of selling it to Brunswick. Chrysler engines and transmissions were the best (slant 6, their old 3 spd torqueflite), but then they sold off their non-core businesses (like Airtemp) and look at what happened to them!

Even with your father's GM discount, the Corolla was competitive? What's going on down there in Kansas? What's in the water? I don't care what you got for your trade, up here a Corolla (payment) can't touch the Ion or Cobalt. Something is wrong. Just doesn't jive. Or were you just more hung up on what you were "getting" for your trade? In reality, 3 dealers will "get" the same amount for your trade, within a few hundred dollars. What they "show" you, based on your hot buttons, is an entirely different matter. I suspect the Toyota guy did a better job of reading you.

Take CAFE or imposing gas taxes to get the price of gasoline in North America up to world standards. We are living in a bubble, kids. Nowhere else in the world do they drive what we do. That is a fact. I know this isn't popular around here, but we have to stop guzzling so much damned gasoline like it is our God given right. We have been foot dragging on this for decades - and she has a point about Detroit. They have fought this tooth and nail, then Japan Inc realized that money could be made on small cars while Detroit convinced us that an SUV was what one needed to drive to work every day. Come on - that just isn't right. Believe me, I would love to go back to the glory days of the late '60s when every second car on the road is something I would have given my eye teeth for, but that just isn't going to happen. Let's follow the European example and build cars that are fun to drive AND get good gas mileage - like the Focus that they sell over there.

I hope you are kidding. Canada had its own oil nationalization debacle 30 years ago when Trudeau created Petro-Canada. Alberta still hates Ottawa today. The fact is, higher oil prices mean the tar sands and other projects are more feasible, which means Canada will be able to export more oil to the U.S. and the Americans can tell Venezuela to f$%k themselves!!

Why does every single debate have to automatically turn into government = bad, freedom to do whatever the f%$k I want = good? Putting a dog or a cat in a condo or house is an UNNATURAL ACT, plain and simple. They were meant to be in the wild, killing small prey - not pining away all day for their Master to come home. Having a pet in the first place is an unnatural act, in the literal sense. In a city the size of Los Angeles, there are literally MILLIONS of pets. I can see the changes within my own city as the animal population increases. Not everyone has the time or the money or the patience to properly train their pets; consequently, there are a lot of out of control animals out there. Then there are the idiots that have no idea how much work a cute puppy/kitten is, and dump them a few weeks after the Xmas holidays. Currently, in Toronto, this bankrupt city is spending a lot of time "consulting" the public on amalgamating "off-leash" areas in parks. Believe me, there are a lot of people who don't want dogs in "their" parks at all. (Frankly, I'd rather not have "their" kids in MY park, but I suspect I'd be on the losing side of that argument. LOL) I see a lot of stupid pet owners and non-pet people are getting pissed off. Perhaps the real issue here is why is California getting involved, and not the city councils? I suspect that in a rural or small town setting it isn't an issue at all. In one swanky area not far from me (Riverdale) the local public school let one area of the playground go natural - meaning tall grasses and bushes were allowed to grow. People I have spoken with that live near there are pissed at all the feral cats that have taken roost there; no doubt feeding on the plentiful squirrels in the area. The greater debate is how can we all learn to get along as our biggest cities hit the tens of millions? Tempers flare easily and people are too busy minding each other's business, to be sure, but at the same time there is a big disconnect between responsibility/know-how and actions. Boys and girls, we had all better get used to more government intervention, not less. The average person is dumb and lazy. Either we sterlize them (and that is an interesting debate!) or we minimize how much they can ruin society for the rest of us.

What they said - unless you are towing a lot of weight frequently; otherwise, your wallet will thank you now and in the future.

From my experience (and I switch cars a lot), the Malibu 2.2 gets better gas mileage than the Cobalt. I beat on both cars, so my fuel mileage experience would not be typical. I suspect it may have to do with the gearing or programming. Sort of like the old 3.4 in the Alero (awful mileage, but a blast to drive) and last generation Impala (great mileage, no barn burner in acceleration.) Our rep at GM said that the 2.2 family has had the best launch with the fewest problems of any engine GM has launched. Keep in mind, you can beef up the ecotec to over 400 hp with stock parts and NOT have to change the crankcase or block, mind. Tough engine. I think you will see many of them hit 250k miles no problems. The noise issue is subjective. GM has gone to great lengths to make the Cobalt quiet - tons of padding (remember the "beauty cover" debate a few weeks ago?) and "quiet steel" on the fire wall, etc. Push a Corolla hard and you'll see what I mean.

We only need to observe the cesspool that Venezuela is going to become (or Zimbabwe has) to understand what nationalizing important assets can do. Instead, Washington and Ottawa need to streamline the processes to get the envirowackos off the oil company backs so they can actually build new refineries and explore for new sources of oil in previously forbidden areas. This means getting so-called aboriginal peoples off the oil company backs, too. That is really slowing things down up here in the north. Additonally - and I know this isn't popular here, governments should increase the taxes on gasoline SUBSTANTIALLY, with the understanding that the extra monies get used for transportation infrastructure and alternative fuel technologies ONLY. The trouble with that, of course, is that the money just goes into general revenue and disappears. Nothing like $8 a gallon gas to encourage conservation, and just think how many more Iraqs Washington could fund with the extra money!

As with many of these "liberal" laws, the ground swell is coming from the larger urban areas. I live in downtown Toronto. I have a Husky, 11 years old. I had him neutered when he was about 18 months. I had to. Anyone who knows anything about dogs knows that they are territorial. Before I had my dog fixed, other large dogs (Rotweillers, Dobes, German Sheppards, etc. )wanted to kill him. KILL him. Not fend him off. KILL him. Never having owned a dog in the city before (the last dog I had was on a farm - and those dogs never went to a vet, period), I was shocked. I asked around, and the consensus was that if I had my dog fixed, all would be well. So I did. And what a difference. Those same dogs that a week before wanted to kill him, now would ignore him. Now that my dog is older, I am having a problem with him: if a younger, unfixed male comes anywhere near him, he snaps at them. If they persist, he attacks them. The circle of life, I guess, but it is very unnerving and has caused me a lot of stress (and spilled coffees!) particularly with new dog owners who don't know that this is normal. I should add that my dog is very calm and friendly. He gets along with all dogs and all breeds, but not young, unneutered males. In a crowded, urban setting, I am all for these type of laws. Most dog owners are idiots and city parks are crowded. Half the issues non-dog owners have with out of control dogs would disappear when dogs are fixed because it does tend to calm them. In the country, the problem is more to do with young male dogs taking off when they can smell a female in heat - and, boy, can they smell them!

That is what leasing is for. Anybody who is remotely considering dumping a vehicle after 2 or 3 years should be leasing. This is where the entire argument for the Civic or Corolla goes bust. Feature for feature, the Cobalt is cheaper on a lease than either of those vehicles - where is the downside? Even people who are high mileage - I dare say especially people who are high mileage, should be leasing. Around here, you'll pay 8 cents a km for extra mileage up front. That is a bargain. What vehicle depreciates ONLY that much? It always slays me when people get hung up on the value of their trade. If Saturn is offering 0% on the new vehicle AND the Ion is being phased out, which everyone knows - how could its resale value hold up? And mileage is everything. For us, 100,000 km is the breaking point where a lot of dealers will throw the vehicle to a wholesaler. You're probably going to see fire sales on the Corolla soon when word gets out there is a new one coming. That's just life.

All of these studies only appeal to the bookworms and computer geeks. How many people on this board have ever been involved in one of these studies? The questions are inane, and some of the surveys are so long that I wonder how many people even bother reading most of them and don't just start ticking them off to get it over with. The only study that could be accurate would be one that was totally random and forced - meaning, if you got it you had to answer it; otherwise, it is only pandering to the really pissed off and the very thrilled. Everyone else could care less. I have always been skeptical of studies, but when Kia can go from the bottom to near the top in a year, well, now I am very suspicious.