The O.C.

The problem with shifting to a lower gear.....is if the car is revving too fast for the safety of the internals of the engine, modern computer systems would have electronically over-ridden the downshift.....

See.....I'm sorry.....if that's true, 5 miles is an enormous amount of room for even a driving dimwit to figure out how to stop the car.....

A couple things don't make sense to me. In my situation, I wasn't driving.....and the time between when the car took off and our approach to danger in the intersection was such a SHORT time, you really don't think fast enough.....I at least shoved the gear shift into Park.....but even I question myself as to why I didn't think to try to turn off the engine.....or push the parking brake button....? BUT....in their case.....if someone had the TIME to make a phone call (to 911) I figure SOMEONE would have had time to get hold of their senses and, yes, try to shut off the engine, engage the parking brake, shift to neutral, shift to park, etc.......just seems wierd in THIS case....

Oh boy does this hit home for me. I had such an experience just before leaving Las Vegas.....had a test drive with this gal in a CTS-V (in the rain I might add.) She was driving, we were going down a back road.....she was being actually quite restrained with the throttle because it was wet and slick out. At a stop light, we stopped....ahead about a 1/2 mile or so down this back road was Jones Avenue....a major, four lane, divided road in the city. She took off from the stoplight.....gave maybe part throttle....then the car just shot forward at full throttle. Now, 1/2-3/4 mile gives a CTS-V alot of room to gather some major speed....afterwards (thank GOD there was an afterwards) she said she saw the speedo hit 100mph before we entered the intersection of Jones Avenue. During the time the car was accelerating, she started screaming "My God the car won't stop...." and I looked over and saw her shoving firmly on the brake pedal. We came upon Jones Avenue with traffic passing both directions.....entered the intersection, she swerved to the left to try to make the turn (unlikly anyway in the rain and at the speed we were going) and we of course understeered to the right, ran into a curb, up a landscaped embankment, into a parking lot of a strip-shopping center, and stopped after we slammed into a parked Jeep. Now......things happen so quickly (especially in a 556hp CTS-V) that between the time I started realizing we were in trouble and the time we came up upon the busy intersection....as she entered the intersection and tried to swerve, I slammed the gear$h! from my seat up into "Park." Thanks to this, by the time we hit the Jeep, we were going slow enough that the airbags didn't even deploy. After seeing everyone was okay.....except for some frayed nerves.....I noticed that the floormat had slipped up and jammed the accelerator to the floor. It must have happened when we were at a stop, her foot on the brake, and when she moved her foot to the gas pedal, her heels must have dug in and shoved the floor mat up and over the throttle pedal. After the fact, the ironic thing was.....was how undamaged the CTS-V was...!!!!! Front end damage was minor and as we pulled the car up onto the tow truck, undercarriage damage was minor to non-existent! Aside from the four flat tires and ruined rims....the car was easily repairable. This amazed us considering 1) the speed we were going when we impacted the large curb and 2) the size of the embankment and the substantial landscaping we plowed through (consisting of small, 3-4foot palm trees we plowed over.) To this day.....that was the day an angel was looking over me. SOMEHOW we missed every single car, going either direction, in that intersection.....not only that, no one else got into an accident trying to avoid US..... So....ironic this Toyota story and the floormats. I still believe the responsibility lies in the consumer, not Toyota.....we've had cars with floormats for decades that lacked any sort of "plug" or "attachment" to keep it in place (even my CTS mats just "lie" there.)

Just think.....today (hypothetically speaking if Saturn weren't dying) could you see Saturn pull off such a "Homecoming" like they did so many years ago.....and would they have so many enthusiastic Saturn owners even showing up? Like Peter says....."www.notgonnahappen.com"

I agree. GM basically took everything unique about the brand and squandered it......the plastic body panels, the Spring Hill facility, rolling the corporation into the GM structure, you name it.....

I typically try to make my tip around 20%.....rounded off to the nearest $.00, like you said.....I do this for basic, good service. If I get $h!ty service, I have no qualms about a much lower, or no tip. For places I frequent, where they know me, especially if it's in a bar part of a restaurant and the bartender knows me.....I tend to tip WAY more.....sometimes as high as 40%-50%. BUT, I usually do this because in those certain places, they have served me so long I get tons of drinks for free....and sometimes even whole meals.....so I've learned who is going to "take care of me" when I come in and I make sure to definitely take care of them.

You just made THE point of this whole discussion......and a major problem with our world today! PEOPLE SIMPLY REFUSE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS! (Old woman that spilled McDonald's hot coffee on herself...etc.) Girls like this "Sally" should have to PROVE rape.....not have it be such an easily accessible "excuse." I would think signs of force or trauma MUST be visible in order for a rape accusation to have any viability. If it's not visible, did "Sally" just lay there, take it, without any attempt to fight back? It just makes me sick to my stomach how many times this word is thrown about because someone got drunk, f@#ked up, did something they shouldn't, maybe afterwards got in trouble with their parents for it....and decided....I'll just yell "Rape!" (Of course I realize there are true instances when rape does occur.....but I'm sorry....this is situation does not sound like some burglar breaking into your house, forceably bonding and tying your wife down, and forcing sex with her.....)

Stupid ad.......really stupid ad..... .....but damn what a gorgeous new Coupe!!!!!

I would say the Taurus Limited ($39K-$40K loaded) is the closest competitor to the LaCrosse CXS.

Oh BUT......I get his point.....ABS has nothing to do about it.....it's the transfer of even more weight from the rear of the car to the front in a FWD vehicle, when hitting the brakes (aggressively) that further lightens the rear end of a FWD car.... .....in low-traction conditions, in a curve, that could lead to some oversteer capabilities. I used to inflict that, willingly, in my Mazda6 when I had it a few years back......storm HARD into an off-ramp, and just as the front-end is starting it's traditional understeering role, a sharp jab of the brakes nicely brought the rear end around.....making the Mazda quite playful......actually if going fast and hard enough into the off-ramp, an aggessive lift off the throttle would be enough to bring the rear end around....(lift-throttle oversteer.) It never felt dangerous to me, just made the handling more playful......

A loaded SHO barely touches a base, stripped out CTS. I'd say it is not priced in CTS territory at all.......

I had an '02 LS V8......and it was one of my most favorite and best cars I've ever owned. I had a dealer friend pick it up from an option....and I think I only paid $18K for it.... I was amazed how import-like it felt.....the engine was a revver, and was very smooth and quiet.....and the car really handled nicely....AND my car didn't even have the sport package with the sport suspension.....and it wasn't a bit floaty, either. Loved the interior and fit-and-finish too......

I thought the GP interiors were decent.....not like the Regal/Century interiors....that I HATED.....

Yes....'97 to '03.

The only driveline problem I ever noticed......was a slight "clunk" when shifting back down into first gear as I was coming up to a stop....if I was shifting while the car was still moving.... After the new driveshaft, this car drives as smooth as pudding......maybe that slight "clunk" was an indication? I don't know......

Just saw a last-gen Grand Prix GT in the parking lot this morning.......THAT car actually looked quite nice.....and the interior design appeared to be much more cohesive....and actually looked to have better fit-and-finish than the current gen.....

The one I had, an '08, didn't feel at all like a solid car....the chassis was so loose and the squeaks, creaks, and rattles inside.....EVEN FOR being a rental car. Yes I know the 3800 is bulletproof.....and I appreciate that. But the car, overall, is appalling. I don't mean to offend ANYONE that has bought one in good faith, and enjoys their GP....but it just reminds me of the crap that GM built that offended so many consumers. Like I said, if anything, my GP experience really makes me appreciate the strides that GM has made in the last few years.

Yes....according to my ticket, it was the diff bearing/seal....or whatever that is. I still have to go back because the new exhaust hadn't yet arrived.....

I totally agree.....I've resisted bitching about it too much, cause it can get old....but since you brought it up, I'll chime in. The '08 GP I had this last weekend as a loaner while the CTS was in for service WAS also the biggest pile of crap I've seen in a long time. I'm SO glad GM is beginning to get their act together and not build cars like this anymore. I'll even go so far as to say the Hyundai Accent I had in Charlotte last year as a rental was, even though very basic, much more put together and competent as an automotive product than this Pontiac. Awful fit-and-finish, inside and out. Body panels so misaligned, you wonder if they actually designed it that way for some perverted reason. (The "Grand Prix" badge on the decklid was also attached so crookedly, it was almost comical.) Interior is a mess......cramped for how big the car is.......seats were very uncomfortable where the seatback meets the bottom cushion. The big steering wheel is also obnoxious. Pieces like the console were very loosely attached....and didn't even look like it was designed to meet up with the center stack. AND way too many squeaks, creaks, and rattles for a car with only 30K miles on it. The suspension/chassis felt like one of the most unsophisticated I've felt in recent times. Constant jiggles on the freeway.....even on seemingly smooth pavement....yet a big floater when you hit dips and bumps. Like an old Buick that someone stiffened up the springs to make it feel "sporty." Brakes were complete mush, and steering had no feel....so numb....yet again, the actual steering was quite quick....like someone sped it up to, again, make it feel "sporty." Problem is, that quick ratio with such numb steering forces you to make constant steering corrections.....especially going thru minor curves on the freeway. Engine was much quieter at very light throttle....and the tranny shifted very smoothly. That's the only two good things I can say about the entire car. However, even with the decent low-end torque, anything more than pulling away from the stoplight (like merging on the freeway) shows how little power this big V6 actually produces. Sluggish feeling, and that usual crude sound and feel as it gains revs. In fact, 4th on the feeway is so sluggish you find your self toeing into the throttle to kick it down (loudly and coarsely) to 3rd or 2nd just to gain speed. In contrast, my CTS in manual 6th gear has really decent power without having to necessarily downshift. OK....my bitching is done. Getting back into my '07 CTS with 50K miles......really makes me appreciate how far GM has matured recently.....my car still feels as tight and rattle free as day one.....like it was engineered by a totally different company.

Yeah, I'll keep you kids all up to date when I get the car back (and the repair ticket.) To clarify, the leak was noticed around the rear diff.......and I guess somehow as a result the whole driveshaft had to be replaced. The shaft isn't supposed to hit until Monday or Tuesday so it will be prolly mid-to-late week before I can let you guys know. The leak was small enough that I never noted anything on my garage floor, but they found it when they put the car up on the lift.

I could go on-and-on about the 'Prix....but it would bore everyone. Needless to say, I'd forgotten how bad the W-cars really are these days.....the fit-n-finish, the rattles (the door squeaks when I open it), the hoary 3800 engine, the numb steering and brakes, the floaty chassis that jiggles you down the road over every bump.....ugh.....the console you can wiggle back and forth with your HAND...it's so loosely attached.....

He just said they found a small leak in the driveshaft......and when they looked into it, it needs a whole new one. I'll probably get more to the story when I pick up the car and everything is done. I just think it's odd that a car would need a new driveshaft after only 50K miles..... I don't drive the car hard.....and I don't recall that I've ever even popped the clutch during it's entire life.....other than that, I drive it, shift it, with baby gloves.....I don't powershift, or shift fast, or anything I can think of that would have caused the driveshaft to wear quickly or break.....

Well, I still love my car.....but damn if this isn't like ole' Murphy's Law...... I've written on here how very trouble free my CTS has been over 50K miles.....and it has with the exception of just a few minor items......my car has been a true testimonial for GM's recent reliability and durability strides..... BUT.....so my car has exactly 49,500 miles on it....and I had a couple minor issues I wanted to get taken care of before the 50K mile warranty expired.... (rear window wouldn't operate, bad, unusual static with AM stations....think there's a short in the system somewhere from the shark-fin antenna to the radio.....and a very minor exhaust noise that I've just recently noticed....) SO....the advisor calls me this afternoon.....as a courtesy to me, they did a complete, full inspection of the vehicle to see if ANYTHING else needs attention under warranty that I haven't noticed...... .....my car needs a complete NEW driveshaft....!!!! OMG...!!!! AND, it also needs a complete new muffler.....(that was the exhaust noise.) Can you imagine if that driveshaft took a crap on me just AFTER I was out of warranty? (Yeah, they might have goodwilled it for me 'cause I'm in warranty still on time) It seems you hear stories of this kinda stuff happening all around the time the warranty expires. So, thankfully I made that trip into the dealer while just still under warranty. Hopefully the worst part will be having to drive the Grand Prix Rental Queen for three more days until they get the driveshaft...which is coming from Michigan.....

That's down more to individual dealer service.....not necessarily BMW itself. I've had three BMWs.....and had awesome service at both BMW stores I used to get them serviced at......I even got a loaner when my BMW was in for routine oil changes.....(Caddy only gives me one for warranty work.) On the flip side, I started using Tustin Cadillac for service....and they were horrible. Now I take my car to Allen Cadillac in Laguna Niguel.....and they are as good as any dealer, any brand, that I've experienced. And I'm one to say that I did enjoy all three of my BMWs.....(330i coupe, 330i convertible, X5 4.4i)....and it is really going to be tough for me to not go back to them again when my CTS lease is up in November.... I love the new CTS.....but when you are signing the contract, and committing to the payments for 36 months.....I can't just say the Caddy is a given for me (especially the trouble probably finding one or ordering one with a manual tranny like my current CTS.)