The O.C.

GM has, incredibly, taken such a close-minded approach to these influential urban centers that it borders on lunacy. Recalling my experience working for GM back in the late 80's to late '90's........working for Buick as a District Manager in San Francisco, then Los Angeles (a lot of my comments also apply to my time spent in Philadelphia as well....an east coast major urban center)....... .....it was amazing how all aspects of "Buick"....it's regional employees, it's dealerships, it's overall markets in CA (and eastern PA) were all treated as bastard step-children when it came to advertising and marketing dollars, regional support, and overall focus and support from the company. Buick's position was......to spend the vast majority of their money and resources in the midwest and Florida (old people) because that's where they sold cars. So why would they EVER consider expending resources to the import-dominated coasts? Well.....I guess here 20 years later......we now know the answer......

that one is even funnier than Carbiz' post.....

I find the whole obesity thing interesting......and mostly sad. What's ironic is taking notice of most of the people I see in the gym.....when I go, the vast majority of the people in the gym......are people in decent/good/great shape. I hardly ever see obese people in the gym (in other words....trying to exercise and lose weight.) Those that lean on the genetics explanation......fine......but how many of them are actually active, exercising, eating properly? I'm betting not many of them at all. BTW.....I don't consider "a little extra weight" (like some of us on here have described ourselves in this thread) to be the same as "obesity".....at least relative to my post.....

Ooooooooo....... That's a good one.....

A cucumber? That's a new one.....LOL You KNOW I was only kidding.....

Damn Mo.....ur at the top from what I've seen..... Sorry didn't mean to leave you out of the voting......OK....you and BV tie for sexiest "young'un" :AH-HA_wink:

I vote Cory the sexiest young'n on the site.....

WOOF......

Ahhh....what about lil ole me? (don't forget Turbo, and Borger.....I I'd tell you, Evok would hit the top list pretty easily......<grin>)

Will you spit on me?

They already HAVE pushed up prices. A loaded '07 CTS (minus the V-series) topped out around $42K......mine was $41K with the manual tranny and all other options.... Today, base CTSs with automatics are around the $38,500 MSRP range.....and top $50K loaded......and I'm gonna guess the average MSRP is around $45,000 (based upon my witness of the CTSs we sell.....just as many loaded at $49-$50 as we do $40K ones.) Difference is....in the old generation, very few were sold at maxed-out $42K MSRP equipment levels. Old CTS sold on price much more than substance. THIS CTS, however, can easily command respect, and sales, at the upper-$40K range.....

You're a dick..... LOL

Well, for whatever reason, the buying public does consider Camry to be class-leading....and they have voted with their wallets. Ultimately, that's the only true gauge of product and marketing success. It's all about the numbers.

.....uh I'd certainly call the Camry class-leading......it's been leading it's class for, oh, how many years?

Well here in (snowy....yes, snowy) Las Vegas, we have three Cadillac dealerships. Mine is on West Sahara out towards Summerlin, Red Rock, and many other upscale areas.....prolly the best location in the Vegas area due to the demographics....and we have a nice, modern store. Right up the street is the local BPG store.....and Fletcher Jones Mercedes-Benz, Desert BMW, and Lexus of Las Vegas are all just up the road from us. All nice stores. The other good locale for dealerships is in Henderson in the southwest of the Vegas area.....there's a big automall where the franchises are also located, and our main Caddy competitor as well. Finally, the third Caddy store is our other store, located in the literal ghetto on East Sahara. Prolly 20-30 years ago, it was the happening location for car dealerships.....but not anymore. There's a hint of rumor that when our lease is up on the East Sahara location, we'll be moving that store up to the northwest part of Las Vegas (another growing area.)

Yeah.....but frankly Buick has no where near the brand cache to bring these consumers into the showroom. Neither does Pontiac, in my opinion. I don't pretend to know the answer......but I could never see this car working as a Buick. Actually, that's scary because if a car this good can't work as a Buick, will anything ever again?

If I were to rank these cars on overall satisfaction with the interior (design, fit-and-finish, material quality, tactile quality of controls)....the whole she-bang....I'd probably rate them as: BMW 3-Series/Audi A4 (tie) CTS C-Class Infiniti G To me, I'll admit the 3-series interior is a pretty bland design.....but bland can be good. For me, the BMW has a solidity about everything in the interior that truly makes it feel luxurious to me....regardless of the lack of flash in the interior styling. Really little for me to complain about. Always have been an Audi interior fan. CTS is right up there. Unfortunately there are small fit-and-finish woes seen in just about every CTS that bug me....and it just doesn't feel as solid as the Germans (you can move the flexy IP cluster with your hand pretty easily.) However, it's stylish design and attention to things such as the dash stitching and comfortable seats put it ahead of the C-Class and G for me. I find most of the controls to have a solid, weighty precision.....most.... C-Class interior screams "cheap" to me....even if upon closer inspection it's almost as solidly put-together as the BMW and Audi. I really don't like their pick of materials, or the design of the center stack. Infiniti has always seemed like the bargain-basement interior. I know it's not......but when a Honda or Acura interior (not to mention Lexus) seems to have a more upmarket feel....that spells "bad" for Infiniti. When I think of the G, all I can remember is the cheesy moveable IP/steering column, downmarket "orange" backlighting, and cheesy Japanese "paper" metallic trim.

Ebony and Titanium Grey. Our first few cars have Recaros too.....but they were put on restriction after that. Everything else has standard CTS seats (excuse me...standard seats with suede inserts.)

Well, today here in Las Vegas it is a beautiful, wind-less, sunny 65-degree day. However, I guess there is a storm or something coming in....because on like Monday or Tuesday, the low at night is supposed to be in the upper-30's.....and it's supposed to rain.....and that in the foothills, we might even see snow (Where I live in Summerlin, up close to the Red Rock mountains, we sit significantly higher than downtown LV and The Strip.....high 30's on The Strip means it might be cold enough by me to snow.) Would be kinda neat to see.....however, it most likely will do it at night (when I'm asleep) and I seriously doubt it will stick on the ground.

Happy B-Day big boy...... Hope you are well.....

.....please....?

Well, of course we all know the XF and MKS aren't on the same platform. But I think 'Boi's point is made very clear.....it's shocking how much they resemble each other. Finally, yes, the XF is on an updated S-Type (Lincoln LS) platform.

'Biz....I think Enzl was spot on. As far as OnStar.....I don't know what revenue or profit it brings the corporation......but I don't see Toyota and the others "scrounging to play catch up" as you say. While I do come across customers that have subscribed to OnStar in the past....in no way is it a closing tool for my customers....nor do very many of them show much interest in it. As far as having a "car" guy versus a "corporate" guy......as Enzl noted....Mullaly has seemed to have been way more effective in his short term than The Rick has been for over 8 years. Not understanding how Detroit could allow the Japanese to walk in and take over? Isn't this clear now, or do we have to rehash all the product missteps, market misreads, and blunders that Detroit made, and sadly, didn't learn from? Oh, finally.....you mentioned GM's (Detroit's) "past arrogance." One of the major problems still confounding GM today.....is not their "past" arrogance, but the current arrogance that still sweeps over the entire corporation.....today....even considering the challenges staring them in the face.

I'm one that is a strong supporter of the previous gen CTS. Mine is an '07 with already 40,000 miles on it....and it has been absolutely the best car I've ever owned from a quality and reliability standpoint.....and that includes other domestics and imports. The interior materials and design may be a far reach from today's CTS....but in terms of actual fit-and-finish, my old-gen CTS is practically flawless. Nothing has ever fallen off, there are absolutely no squeaks or rattles inside the car, and the plastics (lesser-quality they may seem) have held up like new. Everything fits too. In fact, my buttons on the center stack haven't even had the white paint that makes up the letters/numbers wear away (something that has been known to happen with older CTSs.) Also, my car is as tight and squeak/rattle free in structure as the day I drove it home for the first time. Finally, in regards to problems....I've had exactly two in 40,000 miles.....my back-up lamps went out, and I had one tire-pressure monitor that went bad. That's it. So maybe I was a lucky one.....and got a lucky car.....but if other consumers have similar experiences with their old CTSs, that speaks volumes for future potential customer loyalty.