enzl

As someone who can occassionally iritate, I think we have to be careful about curtailing opinions. While we can have heated exchanges that detract from the information being shared (guilty as charged)--I find its the contrarians among us that tend to dig into the issues facing GM and the industry at large. I have a gut feeling that the Zeta rumors are merely saber-rattling by GM to squeeze the CAW into accepting a lower volume commitment or job cuts or both. It just doesn't make sense to have just the Camaro made in the US---even the most optimistic C+Ger knows that more than 100k vehicles need to be made at Oshawa--to me, the obvious move is to experiment with the Aussie imports, then move their production after judging the market-between the g8, ST + Crewman, another factory filling set of vehicles seem to be readily available--at least 1 of 2 Oshawas, in any case. Just my .02

The problem is that a $40-50k high tech Buick flagship would work, a $40k Delta based Prius-fighter won't. I've expressed my skepticism about the Volt before---but this appears to be one more example of Lutz running off at the mouth. A $40k vehicle that changes everything* could save GM's bacon--a $40k 'converted Cobalt' would be a disaster. I'm concerned that with the timeframe of '10 the result will be the latter, rather than the former. *plug-in, 40+mi. electric range, practical, sporty, good looking and reliable---with tech that can be transfered...

I'm not an interior guy, per se...but I find it shocking that the G8 plastics will be in the same league as the GP. I'm not busting on the GP as much as I'm hoping that GM has learned that lesson by now. The 'bu, CTS and even the Lambdas show that they're listening.

You're missing the entire point. Which, quite frankly, isn't surprising. Ignorance truly is bliss.

Wow. Hypocritical is one thing. Forgetting you just took nearly the opposite position 1 hour before. Priceless. And to clarify for you, since reading comprehension is not your forte: I was speaking of the hypothetical Soccer Mom driving one of these by herself...I would think that an alternative 'choice' might be something a hell of a lot more efficient than either a Tahoe or Tahoe Hybrid--since we are at war to feed our appetite for fossil fuels. It's about dumb choices idiots make and the rest of us who have to live with them. It's the fact that you probably lie within the former group and are clueless as to your membership. Perhaps a quick read of the 'tragedy of the commons' might enlighten you, FoG?

The GP Int. is awful. Well screwed together, but awful. The G8 has to be better than the GP's 'Fisher Price does Avis' interior. I'd take LX-quality.

Excellent question. If they planned to do it, I assume it could. I'm not clear what changed. The truck angle makes it serve a dual purpose, CAFE & unique product.

So there should be no reason the G8 SW could be too. I find it hard to believe that these couldn't find 5-10k homes/yr. 5 series space, solid RWD perfomance at sub-1 series pricing---seems to be a no-brainer to me. I haven't priced a G8, but I'm assuming that even with a modest premium, there could be a space for sub30k SWs. Nah, that would make Pontiac relevant again as a source of unique performance. Let's rebadge another Chevy for them!

Perhaps I've got a couple of additional years of 'perspective'---but freedom of choice doesn't mean society or individuals automatically approve of all choices---there are many curbs on freedom of choice: taxes, zoning regs, laws---for excellent reasons. I choose to believe that my actions may intentionally or accidentally impact others and guide my choices accordingly. Most others do, too. But, obviously, you are free to chose to believe otherwise! In the future, when others (be it family, co-workers or neighbors) are dependent upon your choices, you might revise that opinion.

Why couldn't the Wagon come over classified as a truck? IIRC, Subaru recently reclassified the former Legacy Outback as a truck. 2 things could be accomplished: CAFE increase (assuming V6/diesel/E85 engines) & a cool, limited production wagon (what the Magnum should have been). Anyone know exactly why this couldn't be done?

nah, you're just misinformed more than most here. :wink:

I think you're making a generalization that is difficult to supprt...I have found that most of the auto press has been somewhat critical or at least objective when it comes to the cost/benefit analysis of the Prius...now, the mainstream press is a different story---but that's more of a case of non-car people trying to write a story about something they know nothing about. IIRC, a bunch of the major motoring rags have been critical of the Prius for not meeting the pre08 EPA numbers in Long term tests... As for the Edmunds' use of mostly highway travel, isn't it possible that like most of us, the tester took a highway to get home or to and from work? Also, the issue of the Tahoe's efficiency in general weighs heavily on the buyer's planned use. Regardless, I would say the tone of the piece is positive...which is indicative of the direction most GM press is going these days.

I don't know what article you were reading. It's not a gushing love letter, but it's certainly a positive piece. In fact, being critical of the idea of Hybridizing a huge truck that many of its buyers don't truly need in the first place is a legitimate question. And with the preponderance of 24" rims I see on these types of vehicles regularly, the idea of spending extra to be 'green' seems to be something the author is supporting. Reg, I think you're being a little oversensitive on this one. The questioning of the wisdom of 5' soccer moms driving these things around, even with a 20% increase in efficiency, is certainly legitimate given the fact that our countrymen are fighting in foreign lands to preserve the supply of gas...and the author doesn't even dig that deep on the issue.

I'm not sure that I understand the GME issues here, but I'm a little concerned that GME, an entity that has had problems focusing its attention on delivering consistent, desireable & profitable smaller Euro-zone cars is in charge of any global efforts by GM as a whole. I think you might be confusing hatred with deep concern. Despite all types of money being plowed into it, GME hasn't produced anything in modern history that could be considered top notch-competitive, yes. Some great sellers, yes. But World-Class platforms that blow away VW, Ford or, god-forbid, one of the German big 3? Nope. And now they've been handed Saab & Saturn's complete future (basically), as well as lead development on anything CAFE dictated in the US. Scary considering much of the GME stuff that has gotten stateside has been mediocre or worse, IMO.

Please refrain from personal attacks...and, BTW, you couldn't be more wrong about me. I welcome diversity of opinion, even when diametrically opposed to my own.

Completely not personal, my friend---and, as you so amply expressed, we all have the right to type whatever we want here---so long as it conforms to certain boundaries. Pointing out that ignorant statements come from ignorant people by using an example of their ignorance strengthens my argument, no? That is all, just a little Rhetoric 101, sir, no grudges, no personal issues, only business. Perhaps you should worry less about what I think--I'm certainly not wasting my time on you.

I just don't get how silly you can be. An independently owned and operated dealership does a half-ass job---yet Honda MC should be strung up? Ignorance is rampant in this country. Just check out all the idiots in S. Carolina who think the Confederate....ah, on second thought, forget it. Dealers are, almost without exception, owned independently of any factory. The service and sales experience varies so greatly from unit to unit that no true lesson can be drawn from any experience that would apply to the whole dealer body. That being said---find a good dealer in your town (regardless of shield) and stick with them--it'll always save you headaches, if not $ too.

Yes and Yes. I believe it's gotten some decent reviews as a midpack effort, but a huge improvement on the Elantra/Spectra.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_cee%27d

There's nothing that dictates a different form of propulsion results in a less fun vehicle... V8's can be highly efficient---whether via cylinder deactivation, hybridization or even diesel power. Until we figure out how to be less dependent upon our enemies via innovation, we've got to deal with the political BS that is the CAFE standards (as Congress is afraid to tax gas like Europe). I still don't understand how Zeta somehow gets screwed--4's/6's/diesels & the occasional V8 shouldn't be that big a deal--but I don't get alot of decisions at the tubes.

IIRC, Jan 1 of the previous year for model #'s...I think there has to be less than 365 days to go for a car to be given the 'next' model year. (09 can go on sale Jan 1, 08)

Forget about it...you'll never win...there are people around here who don't believe that the HHR is a PT ripoff....just take a deep breath and let it go...Styling is subjective. So are the opinions of posters. The Challenger is here. The Camaro isn't. Enjoy the brief respite before the breathless bleatings of the horde proclaim the new Camaro a reincarnation of Jesus himself in vehicular form.

The LX's have their flaws, but I think they're the best values out there in sedans. The interior issues are present, but to me those are only a problem if you elect to spend 35k+ on the highline versions of these vehicles. Otherwise, with the dumbing down of the Japanese sedans' interior quality across the board, the LX trips are really not THAT bad. Additionally, the Magnum is still a badass wagon---I'll be sorry to see it go, if it was given more reasonable sales projections, it certainly would have been considered more successful.

That's the base car....not the SRT. Hey, it's clearly not everyone's cup of tea, but I've got to give Dodge their props for producing it at all. (and, BTW, they'll sell each and every one for at least the first 2 years of production, which should get brampton to NG LY's without an ugly slowdown or shift elimination...)

And Alpha development work hasn't started?

It's a tough call...Saturn got by with 3 models for years...I'm not entirely certain why they need product like the Outlook or Sky---it seems to me that the Outlook should have been a Chevy & the Sky something else--a Nomad, Solstice Coupe or a Buick Reatta---just not a Saturn. The plastic panels on the Ion lend themselves to quick, cheap extensive changes---and the Cobalt needs an interior MCE desperately, so that's where my above ideas came from. The Delta bones are fine, its the execution that has been questionable. Saturn with a Vue, Aura & Ion (& hybrids of 2 of them) should sell 250k+/year---to add Minivans, Lambdas & roadsters in order to cut volume seems silly when GM can't afford to properly market all of its nameplates... It's easy to Monday morning QB, but Buicks strength in China has been well known for years--so the rumored demise of Buick was always remote. Pontiac seems to be the perfect division to take some chances with, yet GM has made it the most direct victim of the B-P-GMC channel strategy. What's even scarier is that the heavy lifting necessary to give Saab a chance or large Caddy cars hasn't even begun---nor has the small car end of the Chevy line-up (I'm sorry, the daewoos don't cut it & the Cobalt is, at best, average). A Billion here, a billion there and now you're talking real money! I guess we'll see what happens, but the market for all GMT900s may sh!t the bed, eliminating the $ necessary to do all of this---dicey time to be a product planner at the tubes.