enzl

Retro, by definition, is a dead end. How do you update a homage to the past? (see New Beetle, T-bird, PT for examples..) A cobalt Wagon, that shares many stampings with a sedan/coupe, is cheaper to develop and produce. A 'Zafira'-type Cobalt can sell anywhere on the planet. I don't believe that moneys spent to modernize and refine the Cobalt--making it a true 3/Civic competitor--rather than dumping that same money into an HHR, creates any plus sales.

It looks like only 6 cyl. RAV4's can be configured 7 pass on Toyota's website--so it may be only special order on 4's. And perhaps the reason they're hard to find at all is because they sell ? (I've seen many 7 pass go thru our dealership..) My main issue wasn't mini-minivan demand, regardless...it was wasting valuable development $ on evolutionary dead ends like the HHR.

I can't wholeheartedly disagree with anything you've written, but I'll give you my spin: 1st, I think you underestimate the appeal of the 3rd row, regardless of ultimate utility--for instance, I believe the take rate is fairly high for the 3rd seat in the Outlander & RAV4, two vehicles that have greatly benefited from their respective redesigns that added this feature. While the Rondo & 5 are not sales successes here, bear in mind that these vehicles (& vehicles just like them --Honda Stream, Toyota Verso, Fiat Multipla, Opel 7pass thingy, Volkswagen Touran) are ALL sold worldwide---at a time when the US $ makes exporting extremely profitable! What does GM do? They import a G8 from Oz & the Astra from Belgium instead! I'm not averse to the HHR, and I'm quite partial to hatches, but I just don't see the point. Remember, all of the above MPV's are available in 40 mpg+ diesel guise in their home markets. That makes them much more attractive. And there's nothing to prevent 'practical' from being fun...most of the above also have high-performance variants that sit alongside diesels in their showrooms. It's big fat American slobs that need acres of plastic & metal around them that are the ones missing out. I don't think they couldn't sell 250k worldwide---and if they only sold 50k of those in the States, it would mean 200k sold at profits in currencies that bring back huge returns for a Company that does much of its business in US dollars. To me, when you're having problems making $ on your current model mix, you'd be better served exploiting profitable niches, rather than bringing out a car with the double whammy of retro attention span & little/no export volume. Plus, you save the development costs of the HHR. I'm not sure you noticed, but GM could use a few bucks in their pockets....

I'll break it down quite simply: It's not what the HHR is as much as its what that development $ could have done. A better Cobalt OR A 7 pass MPV or a small CUV just would have made more sense...even if they didn't sell here, the weak US $ could have meant overseas export and factories running full steam in yrs 3-5OR earlier development of the Zetas---a NA-made, RWD sedan Zeta will be available in '10 (?) exactly 5 years after DCX did RWD with the LX--that's a timely response to competition? Like them or not, the Rondo & 5 are sold worldwide---are we exporting HHRs to Europe or Asia or S.America? Not really. Pure Genius.

If I'm wrong, why is the next gen small 7 seater coming here? What kind of distribution does Kia or mazda have compared to Chevy? If you like the HHR that's fine, just don't expect me to agree. It's tired and absent any creative thought as a product, IMO. And Reg, I was trying to recite unique packaging, not cool cars...almost any hatch at the price point of the HHR is a better drive and about 95% as practical. You like waiting until 09 for Camaro's, you keep defending mediocrities like the HHR.

I've seen quite a few (I'm cheating, they're sitting on our Chevy lot each day) and the huge surprise is the LS...The loaded LT's should look good, but the LS at 20,800 to 21,500 lightly optioned is the show stealer. It looks good and the response has been very positive. What's yet to be seen is the effect on Impala sales...but that's the only downside I see.

First-the 100k is with 30%+ fleeting. Check the chart for successful vehicles and their %. Second, the Rondo and 5 are good ideas or at least creative...the HHR is devoid of all creative thought, in concept and execution. The HHR is bad GM, IMO. There are wonderful examples of good GM running around. I strongly believe that the development dollars for cars like the HHR delay cars like the Camaro. If the Cobalt was Civic or 3 good, GM would be benefiting from the shift to smaller vehicles. Instead, its forced to shift Cobalts at cost (or worse) to sell an additional 70k units of a vehicle like the HHR. Misplaced priorities & poor product planning is killing GM in the marketplace. The Zeta's should be out this year. GM should have a viable RWD sedan that's under $25k. Alpha is '11 at best. Subcompacts sell across 90% of the globe. Why doesn't GM have the Corsa here, now? I just don't get it--and the HHR epitomizes it for me. The HHR isn't bad, it just stands as a symbol of the frustration I feel as a GM fan....

I think that the HHR suffers in 2 ways: 1st, I take issue with what it represents for GM--it's simply a PT rip-off without much improvement. Styling is subjective, but by any other standard, it simply doesn't move the game forward. Mazda fits up to 7 people with the Mazda5, as does Kia with the Rondo--in the same space, for examples. 2nd, It just doesn't drive that well for a small car. See any Mazda, Honda or Volkswagen for a smalish car that drives well. I have never gotten the MPG you claim, although I don't pay for fillups, I do monitor consumption and both HHR's I've driven have trip computers---I've never seen above 23mpg for an average tank. It's built poorly---the one I have now has multiple trim and fitment issues, including a glaring misalignment of rear passenger doors and a poorly designed & fitted gas fill area (neck, inner gas door trim both awful). You can't see traffic lights without ducking down, the interior trim is fisher price in some areas and my 700 mi. example's air-pressure monitoring system is going haywire right now (different PSI for each tire each time you start the car!) As far as stocking these, it appears that we had alot of mid-trim levels and then had to swap for base or loaded models...it seems that some HHR customers want 'em cheap, others at the opposite end---this issue came from my inventory mgr.--he's been in the biz 50+yrs.--not me. If he can keep the variations of pickups moving, I can't see why the HHR is an issue, but apparently it is. Perhaps some dealers (like the one you cite above) have much better luck and don't want to swap without exacting holdback? I'm not sure. I can only speak for myself---I'm happy we sell as many as we can--I just look at the HHR as part of the 'old way' at GM. A small, CUVish Tracker replacement would have sold 100k/yr. easy. The HHR is just the wrong answer IMO. Haypops-I'm truly glad to hear that you are happy with your purchase---that's really what matters--not what some anonymous blow-hard on the internet thinks...

The t-blazer is a dinosaur....for some further perspective, I recently had an xB (1st gen) for a month--it was an 05 with 60k....I would venture to say it had only slightly less space overall (More for humans, less for cargo) than the HHR. It got 27-35MPG and, while dog-ass slow and ugly, it just seemed like a more integrated piece than the HHR. The Traverse will more than cover the T-blazer space adequately...I foresee a Colorado/H3 based SUV made elsewhere plugged back into the Chevy lineup at some point in the future. My Chevy store has trouble moving more than a couple of HHR's monthly--and the wide variation in MSRP from top to bottom makes it difficult to inventory adequately, regardless. Is the HHR attractive? Yes. Is it 'good' in the same way a Mazda 3 or a CRV is? Not really. I've had similar bad vibes about the Compatriot triplets, the Matrix (1st gen) & the Element. each has at least one fatal flaw that would drive me crazy as an owner.

Hang on...the small(ish) 2 box market is growing. What form the vehicle takes on...SUV-lite vs. Something else---has generally led to success for the SUVish vehicle and a mixed bag elsewhere. You telling me no one at GM saw the market and where it was going---if you're going through the time and effort of heavy differentiation of a Delta anyway? Plus, the Tracker died years ago, so there was certainly room in the line-up with the Equinox being a V6 only in a class that prefers 4 cylinders. In other words, by making a bad choice (both Rav & CRV are 3rd gen products, so the blueprint was out there!) and outselling other market 'slight misses', I'm now supposed to congratulate GM that they don't suck too badly? Please. 100k of HHR's means 70k retail...I'm certain a better Cobalt would have sold another 100k with minimal investment in tangible improvements without the bother of developing the HHR

I'm honestly not trying to bust balls, but I can't disagree more about what you've written. First, as background, I'm currently driving an HHR, '08 LT with 700 miles as a co. car. I've also spent a month in an 06 HHR with every option that had 20k on the clock. They are not space efficient, they are not fun nor particularly well made and are really just a half-baked product. The gas mileage is so-so, the acceleration mediocre and, while appearing nice, the interior shows alot of signs of cost cutting and just plain bad decision making. On top of all that, it's a blatant rip-off of Chrysler's original idea--and not even done demonstrably better--with arguably better 'bones' to work with. The Trailblazer is at least state-of-the art for a '02 old school SUV. The HHR is an unoriginal idea done poorly. I can't begin to tell you how disappointing the HHR is to live with. Not deliver pizzas or copies, but actually try to live with, with a small family, lots of crap to carry & the HHR as the only vehicle. Perhaps its my own hands on experience, but our Chevy stores and our region at large does not deliver a whole lot of them, at least not to retail showroom customers. The New Mailbu is impressive and GM doing it the right way.

You win. As usual, you must pull a tangental point out of context to be "right". I hope that small victory consoles you when GM is making widgets for Chinese consumers. As usual, you've expressed your complete lack of vision or ideas...where's the spirited defense of the mighty GM PR machine? Or some real, valid point that would prove that my issues are unfounded? If GM is selling 1600 instead of 1000 or even 3200 instead of 2000 at retail, does that qualify as good in your book? In case you've missed it the small crossover/CUV segment is hot...and the HHR has been unable to gain traction, unlike the crv, rav4 and others which will sell in Record #s this year. GM is again caught with their pants down and you're arguing a lone semantic point. Good luck with that.

60% of sh!t is still crap.If sales for 06 were poor, 60% more doesn't mean 'strong' retail sales, it merely means better than the period we're comparing it with... I can read, brother. I'm disagreeing with the implication that the 'increase' means positive news....obviously you've missed my point, which I didn't make clear at first and then tried to....sorry, some people gotta work. Ultimately, the % increase is on sh!t 06 #'s...and 3/10 (or more now) of this 'hot' product are not being sold at retail. Period. I didn't realize I needed to clear up my misstatements with you first. I'll work on that. Don't you have some deck-chairs to rearrange somewhere?

Make & Model Commercial Government Rental Total Fleet Retail Total % Fleet vs. Total Compact SUVs Chevrolet HHR 2,114 52 9,255 11,421 26,493 37,914 30.1% Chrysler PT Cruiser 1,303 14 34,960 36,277 22,453 58,730 61.8% Dodge Nitro 1,050 13 4,990 6,053 27,350 33,403 18.1% Ford Escape 7,065 2,085 10,455 19,605 49,951 69,556 28.2% Honda CR-V 470 23 68 561 99,959 100,520 0.6% Honda Element 330 9 130 469 19,693 20,162 2.3% Hyundai Santa Fe 198 4 3,874 4,076 32,759 36,835 11.1% Hyundai Tucson 92 2 1,525 1,619 19,486 21,105 7.7% Jeep Compass 820 9 2,489 3,318 19,485 22,803 14.6% Jeep Liberty 2,639 915 14,931 18,485 37,935 56,420 32.8% Jeep Patroit 39 - 429 468 1,508 1,976 23.7% Jeep Wrangler 406 151 2,511 3,068 51,646 54,714 5.6% Kia Sportage 67 1 5,043 5,111 17,195 22,306 22.9% Mazda Tribute 48 4 3 55 5,674 5,729 1.0% Mercury Mariner 1,377 9 1,125 2,511 12,421 14,932 16.8% Mitsubishi Outlander 39 2 666 707 9,061 9,768 7.2% Pontiac Torrent 219 14 3,465 3,698 12,942 16,640 22.2% Saturn Vue 902 84 3,033 4,019 35,094 39,113 10.3% Subaru Forester 325 12 3,291 3,628 20,360 23,988 15.1% Suzuki Grand Vitara 45 - 714 759 10,317 11,076 6.9% Toyota FJ Cruiser 341 7 17 365 30,469 30,834 1.2% Toyota RAV4 668 20 8,351 9,039 67,013 76,052 11.9% Compact SUVs Total 20,557 3,430 111,325 135,312 629,264 764,576 17.7% Directly from quoted pdf. I wish I was lying. GM is playing very fast and loose with their public pronouncements. As enthusiasts, I'd be concerned about their very survival, at this point. Fritz was just quoted in the lead, front page AN 12/3 article already adjusting industry sales estimates in 2008 to 15.7 million units from GM's current forecast of 'low-16's'. Wanna guess who's going to lose the largest portion of that 500,000 in 2008? That should be your concern. Not my opinion on the state of GM's fleeting addiction. (& Camino....don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument.)

Umm, can you say 'Overreaction'?Acura is in a down cycle, due to the cancelling of the RSX, and the TSX & TL awaiting their redesign. I don't think Honda's panicking, yet. The RDX & RL have been slow sellers, but the MDX is still outselling the new Enclave. While I don't see Acura's as anything other than tarted-up Honda's, they're still a decent 2nd tier luxury brand---and a roadmap to how GM should be handling Buick right now---just substitute a RWD entry (Riv or PA) as a top model and you've got a fairly good formula for success. BTW, everybody's got cheap APR's on the table right now. BMW's even got it on their CPO cars...Are they in trouble? GM's Red (Toe) Tag sale's got 0% for 60 months...are they in tr...forget that question.....

It's on EpII, so how big could it be? I would assume it'll be the size of today's Aura/'Bu but witha much wider track, which has been the weakness of the current Ep since intro.

See reply above...and I stand by my statement. And, although I may have been unclear, GM's statement about fleet sales being down has ONLY appeared in down month PR statements recently....check 'em yourself. When everyone was raving around here regarding the GM turnaround, citing recent good numbers, those Press releases inevitably ignored mention of fleet sales--every time.*For the first half of 2007, the HHR fleeting was at 30%+, when GM was crowing about a reduction in fleet sales... http://www.fleet-central.com/af/t_pop_pdf..../trucks_web.pdf

First, my fleet reference is to all of their product, although the 60% increase in retail for the HHR may have something to do with fuzzy math:Have you checked Nov. 06's retail deliveries for the HHR or Oct. 07, because they don't say what figures the 60% increase is based on, do they? (Oct 06 appr.4500 total (down 30% from 0ct 05) compared to Oct 07 8000 total, Nov 06 5500 to Nov. 07 7200) Second, and more to my point, numbers can say anything you want them to. Every retailer I know of hasn't had a 'run' on their HHR inventory...---I'll see if I can find a fleet breakout, but the point is that Oct/Nov 06 was in the toilet, so any comparison of numbers would look good. I stand by my statement. Not only that, we're all avoiding the elephant in the room...GM cannot make money selling the mix and volume of vehicles they sell at retail. Great new product, flushed right down the toilet with the rest of the company. It's Rick's time to go, sorry.

Fleeting...Extensively.Just like the PT it rips off. As I've said before, the illusion of GM's sales turnaround was exclusively a Fleet issue. Note the numbers have been poor in each month that GM mentions Fleet sale reductions and magically improves when the Fleeting issue is absent from the press release. Coincidence that the 'good months' coincided with the release of horrible GM write-offs of $37B? It's time for Rick and Fritz to jump out the windows with their Golden Parachutes! Fresh ideas are needed at the top to stop the bleeding while they still have a company to save.

I'm still not certain how the term 'triplets' is derogatory? Especially since its true....there is no functional difference between these 3 products. The Camry/ES argument is fine, but I do believe that most if not all ES articles reference the Camry. Again, the sensitivities of some posters is unbelievable...you can't win. GM gets the best enthusiast press in years for product excellence and the English Professors here come out of the woodwork to pronounce their concerns. Is there any doubt that the Good product=good press correlation is there? GM's got alot of baggage to live down...it's going to take more than a few good products and a UAW capitulation to change the press' viewpoint overnight. I'd say they're off to a good start, however. The glass is half-full, guys. Enjoy it while you can....GM's next challenge is to figure out how they're going to make money making these good products.

Can we put baby Bias to bed now? Bathy-They are triplets...they are nearly identical under the skin, and that is no bad thing when the product is EXCELLENT! Can't win here---if they're not completely effusive with absolutely NO possible quibbles, you gys are all over the media source like a cheap suit...why not just enjoy it?

Useless waste of time and energy. They should have made it off the Colorado/Canyon ext. cab or more like the showcar. A little more downmarket, yes---but noone's clamoring for this type of vehicle....the total market for this thing is shrinking by the day...

....With his own agenda/book/image to burnish and publicize.I'm fairly certain the science is there, even if the presentation of that science is exaggerated to make a point. Almost every government on the planet, most experts and that little outfit known as the Nobel Prize guys all pretty much agree. Maybe people are 'hysterical' about it because it's potentially that serious an issue?

Its not on Autoblog anymore, either....that's why I'm asking....

price not at Dodge.com...does anyone know if it was taken off?