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Camry Wagon meets IS300 Sportcross. The car may not be great, but I'm for anything that brings back the Stationwagon...perhaps someone should call Mr. Lutz about rethinking the G8 SW?

While I think you're right, you mention a number of other issues that the Saturn re-position brings up: Saab is pushed upward (which I don't think it can support, but that's a separate rant), Pontiac/Buick gets pushed to the side, & the Opels could just have easily had a different badge here other than Saturn...and if Saturn is sexy, what is Pontiac? I guess it's more a tribute to how badly 'damaged' certain brands were that GM decides that they're better off rebuilding and expanding one without negative connotations..but it still makes little sense if Saturns gain is at the expense of multiple divisions, IMO.

Actually, it is. If original timeframe is to be met, these batteries (some of which are not yet being tested) must be 100% foolproof out of the box. That's alot to ask of a new tech. 2 yrs. road testing is a very tight schedule on the Volt, a vehicle which must reinvent most major and minor systems in a unique matrix of seamless function. Most car companies cannot do that. I'm not picking on GM, just confused as to how promises could be made without working tech already being available.

I thought I read something about this engine appearing in the Acura TSX 1st... http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit...c-clean-diesel/

You may be right, but I think that the US $'s continued fall means that exchange rates will cost thousands/unit as well. The $1,600 we're both adding is, unfortunately, only the tip of the cost equation.

The Astra will sell every one they bring over...my biggest concern is over the direction of their efforts. Saturn is being given every opportunity to succeed based on the psychographics that GM researched. In other words, Saturn possessed a very positive image (relative to other GM divisions) that someone at GM decided was worth developing. With a limited budget and timeframe, they've done an amazing job---but who has taken notice? Sales do not reflect this effort....and the loss of the Ion's 100k in sales will further erode the volume. In the meanwhile, Pontiac, Buick & Chevy have lost new product---and sales. When GM regroups and gets to these shortfalls, we're talking another couple of model years... That's where my criticism stems from...the Astra itself will do fine, but the federalization costs may have been better absorbed with unique versions, rather than a 3/5 door that can only demand so much of a premium--as for extending the life of the current ION, a few new plastic panels & an interior MCE that adopted the Cobalt's MCE (to share cost) might have gotten GM the remaining S-series fans that have been abandoned by the new direction.

What should scare you is that they sell so many cars despite these interiors...It's a wonder what a positive rep can do for you....

It's an OPINION board. And, as one of the few remaining dissidents, I become your punching bag when I choose to explain my position. Perhaps if GM had identified a few more of the strengths of their competition they wouldn't be in the position they're in--one financial meltdown away from destruction? Nah, people like you would rather blame those that think differently--sounds alot like our President---see how that worked out for him, huh? (You probably don't get past the 'funnies' in the paper) How about leaving the conversation to the adults in the room? Participate (and actually risk something) or leave the personal attacks alone. What frightens me is that I may be the smartest person on this site--and I'm not that smart, brother. Nothing like a random personal attack to make you look smarter, however! My agenda is to make GM better, BTW, by refusing to aid and abet their mediocrity. Others here clearly feel differently---and I'm OK with their 'agenda'.

Reliability isn't any more of an issue than other cars of that era. Don't let that get in the way...

I've said positive things about positive moves...and the rest of their decision-making is weak, IMO. AS we've argued about before, I'm for more extreme measures, but current mgmt. is on half-speed. We'll see who is right in a shrinking, anti-truck marketplace....I predict another disproportionate loss in sales and thus, marketshare....

Safe to say your bias against Honda leaves you in complete denial about the quality of their products.... & GM claims the Astra had $100 million in costs, but not what the Federalization costs actually were, nor why it needed extensive modification when the Delta's are related...BTW-if the 100m # is to be believed, then 2 years of production will also have another $1,250/each in costs, baked right in... IS the Corolla a rehash?...yes. Honda regularly reinvents the compact class.....and I stand by my statement that the Fit/Civic/Accord lineup is better than anyone elses. And, the Astra is Europe's Corolla, man. Avg. to Good product that sells well. As you like to site with the Camry, sales mean nothing about the true quality of the product, right? In the end, GM needs revenue...I would have taken a different path, but that's what makes horse races...Now, of course, you ignored the fact that Saturn's new product isn't selling well, GM is limited as to volume of the Astra --so higher priced versions may have been smarter. and, of course, you used the ever-so-convincing personal anecdote to prove that your point is right--- Keep up the Kool-Aid...you're gonna need it---

Really? For someone who feels that way, you seem to spend some time following my every post....

So, is the story here that GM finally noticed the Mini's success? Or that the brands it has (mis)managed so badly can't justify a premium-priced small entry? I though every manufacturer on the planet wants into this segment. How is that newsworthy?

Honda makes GREAT small & Medium sized cars...4 cylinder Fits, Civics & Accords are, generally speaking, at the top of their respective classes...they're safe, efficient & fun to drive. You need to get off the Kool Aid Reg and see what's going on in the real world of auto retailing. Until the Aura & 'bu showed up, GM hasn't HAD a credible competitor in these sectors--basically ever. Honda's reputation may sell lots of cars, but that only furthers MY points regarding the need for GM to put out products that top the best in the field, rather than introing also-rans. If you read my posts carefully (or were capable of it), you'd see that I was suggesting a different way to go---and if you don't think there are a number of Saturn fans unhappy with the upmarket push & loss of plastic panels, you haven't taken a glance at any of their fan sites or spoken to a Saturn dealer (our region lost one & is in the process of losing another.) As far as selling Astras---they'll sell every one, but that's limited to 40k or so---each one sold at a loss. Oh, and Newsflash: Saturn HAS a revamped lineup of vehicles---in fact, they've basically doubled the product line in 3 yrs.---and sales are up 7% for the 2007 Calendar year---the Aura is selling at 50% of projections, the Vue is barely matching the old one, the Ion is being fazed out (500 sold last month), the Outlook is a slow seller and the Sky is a low volume product. So, as it stands, the dramatic uptick in sales has yet to materialize for Saturn. Could it be that the old S-series loyalist has no option when he walks into a Saturn store? Again, because you're a little slow: I never said the Astra is a bad product, it just isn't enough of a good one in many respects. The Civic sells because it meets the needs of many commuters, families and, in some cases, ricers...but it's more efficient, roomier, safer, more reliable and a default choice because people have had positive historical experience with Honda---thus likely better than the Astra, but more importantly, a much easier sell. Have you looked at GM's sales figures recently? They need to sell something other than CTS' and 'bu's to HOPE to survive.

And off more than 50% vs. old LeSabre #'s & even worse when you consider it replaced that & the PA...and the last time I checked, Toyota was selling a couple more Camry's than the LaCrosse... I also must note that when ever you guys take one of my fifteen points out of context, I must have been spot on with the rest---How about coming up with ideas instead of nit-picking mine?

Unique Selling Point (or Proposition if you're British). It's a good, but not great product. You're going to lose money. Build cost is higher in Europe than under the new Union deal, and you're importing them into a weakening dollar. GM has reported losing 1-3k on EACH compact they made in the States!---add oceanic shipping to that for the Astra. They couldn't have reshaped the ION's plastic panels (its UMP) for $750/car? At the same time....Might as well go small-premium at 40K/year. Think cut-rate C70. Or a crazy canopy available on the 3 dr. like in the EU. Both could command prices higher than the current Astra---and, if you want to maintain volume, rebody the ION for LESS than you're losing on the Astra. There's still a strong, silent fanbase of the original S sedans looking for $14-17K Corolla-stomping plastic flyers....all the basics were in place to keep the Ion morphed into a modern-ish Neon---hell. if they didn't sell here, they could ship 'em overseas because of the weak dollar! I'm not trying to pick on the Astra, I just think some of GM's decisions are strange, IMO.

I'm just trying to make sense of it. Thanks.

Ooof. I'm 37 too! Are we really the Seniors here? PAss the Geritol & Depends....

And the reason they don't have the $ is because it's been squandered, by current and past leaders....before Lutz, the place was a product development black hole! Saturn has been completely reinvented---in 2.5 years, they have the youngest line-up at GM, without the Astra---the bad news has been that GM has NO clue how to market good to very good Saturn product.

You guys don't get it...You'll sell all of these (at a loss)...so this car is, in essence, a rolling billboard for what GM can do....instead of grabbing a few converts or easy sales, how about converting those that have turned their back on the domestic nameplates? You do that with USP, great styling & a strong word-of-mouth from those that know cars---the Astra isn't quite there. that's all I'm saying. And, Reg, it's painful how ignorant you are about the market. The Civic sells 300k+ yr.--that's certainly NOT all ricers or under 30's...The Civic is a bold (and admittedly somewhat polarizing) design in a conservative sector. Unlike Toyota, Honda took a chance---and let's not forget, the Civic is efficient, roomy & along with the 3, a true handler in certain guises. The Lucerne was 'good enough'---how's that selling now? Or the Theta's, which can't keep up their #'s in a market running to CUV's. Continue, young ostriches. It's not simply USB ports or cupholders...It's a 1.8 when 2.0 DI is on the shelf. It's the lack of an IRS, it's the 4 speed auto, it's the coal-bin interior, the fact this is an old product in Europe, the fact they'll lose $ on each one, the fact that they can't provide enough to cover the meager volume of the Ion's last year...or NO USP: No diesel availability here, no 'vert, no canopy windshield....the list is endless. Another 'just miss' opportunity....and if the Saturn dealer network can't sell 40k in a space they once sold 200k+ vehicles, then it's time to euthanize the brand.

Have you seen 60's Saab's? Awkward & weird...I'd reference the look of the mid-80's 900 well before I went to a look as appealing as herring....

Why are u assuming I'm comparing this to the Toyota. It's the Civic & Mazda 3 that are true standard bearers in this class. GM should be aiming beyond those 2, not at their knees hoping to grab some low-hanging fruit. Just good enough simply isn't. Beat them, as the Corolla's an appliance.

Another whining session from the peanut gallery because Edmunds didn't fall to their knees with effusive praise for what is, in essence, a 3-4 yr old car before it gets here. The Astra seems like a really nice ride, with some legitimate shortcomings that keep it from being tops in its class...isn't it enough that GM had the stones to bring it here for you guys? It makes the Ion immediately forgotten (hopefully) and it fleshes out the lineup so that Saturn can continue it's renaissance (over 7K Ions were sold in Dec. 06, only 500 last month). A lack of certain features is a glaring omission, whether its GM or somebody else, especially in a class that has such entrenched competition. The fact is that cars have gotten so good on average that making a real impression takes extra effort---and while Edmunds isn't an authority on anything, their criticisms are fair.

Couldn't it be argued that most of your post is opinion, just colored as a fan of GM? GM was late to the mid-sized SUV party--first effort was a 2-door Blazer that did not sell near the numbers of the Explorer...that was the heart of the BOF SUV craze...GM was late. GM capitalized on the larger Pick-up market more than SUV's GM tech failures: Cosworth Vegas (Al engine issues), V8-6-4, Olds Diesel, X-body FWD were underdeveloped & awfully assembled, Airbags developed & abandoned, E-dashboards that couldn't outlast the fist set of tires.... The Corvair, despite the handling being better tamed as the years went by, was simply not what the general public was used to in terms of 'at the limit' behavior---and since you claim the Camaro did it 'better & cheaper'---doesn't that mean that GM created the competition that ultimately killed it? Why is it snobbish to think that a Company (forget it's GM for a sec) that had Market dominance, was the largest in the World, made $ hand over fist, almost singlehandeedly created a workers middle class AND has been trending towards a slow, painful death for 30 years WILL get criticized by Biz press or anyone else with a pulse and a few brain cells? Why is every small error in an article an example of bias and every positive review a sign of GM's rebirth & skill? It can't be that extreme. GM deserves criticism, they've burned their legacy AND now must struggle to get their Mojo back. There's simply no other way.

It certainly looks like they're targeting an audience or two!