OshKoshBerJosh

I've always appreciated the level of tolerance and respect I've found towards LGBT people on this forum. I don't think this thread really changes any of that. I'm not sure why the list of gay cars was created in the first place though, and I'm not such a fan of boxing in groups of people in this fashion.

I can't speak to Clinton's successes or failures since I was an aware teen during his presidency, but the democratic party has had a long standing tradition of representing the working class. If the dems could re-engerize this commitment, they stand a much better chance of actually tackling some of these problems. All Republicans are not corrupt and all Democrats are not squeeky clean. The balance tends to shift when one party retakes congress. The success of the majority party tends to breed corruption as a manifestation of power. When the next change occurs, I hope the Dems can break this cycle and prove that they are the party with a backbone. One note of observation, the level of corruption in Congress increased much more rapidly under Republican control than it did under Democratic control. Again, we come back to the ideologies behind the two parties. One is far more suseptible to ethics breaches than the other.

I'm sure some of those tax cuts lined the pockets of executves in the form of big bonuses for "improved bottom lines".

I agree that tax cuts have their time and place. I was just saying that PResident Bush implies (if not outright states) that tax cuts are always appropriate. I also agree that the bulk of tax cuts should go to the lowest bracket and not the highest. There is something else to consider, though. Tax cuts are great for those who have jobs, but they do nothing in the short-term for people who have already lost their jobs. The benefits of tax cuts in terms of job creation are not realized soon enough to help those who are desperately looking for any source of income.

I can't speak to whether President Bush should intervene to help GM and Ford, but I do know a thing or two about economics and I can tell you that Bush does not. Bush on Tax Cuts - cut taxes to end a recession and cut taxes to keep the good times coming. My take - Cutting taxes in every economic situation leads to a smaller tax base and helps create large deficits. Bush on free trade - free trade with all cooperative countries NAFTA< CAFTA< etc. My take - there are theoretical long term benefits of free trade. However, like communism, those theoretical benefits aren't going to play out in practice. Free trade destroys industries in well-off countries in order to bring prosperity to others. In reality, it's little more than a means for corporations to outsource every aspect of the production of their products to cheap labor markets. Bush on government/entitlement programs - get rid of programs that don't work. My take - What happens to those who do benefit from such programs? Why not fix programs that are already in place? We have an obligation to help those who cannot help themselves. The resources given to such persons are pumped directly back into the economy, thus creating more taxable revenue. Bush on balanced budgets - keep borrowing money to pay for what we want. As Cheney said, "deficits don't matter. Reagan proved that." My take - Irresponsible. The amount of interest we must pay is staggering, and is reported to be one of the largest expenditures of the federal government. Bush on creditcard payments - Let's increase the minimum payment due each moth from 2% to 4% in order to force people to take more responsibility for their debts. My take: Why shouldn't federal goverment be as responsible? Also, the creditcard companies have a hand in creating such high amounts of personal debts. They offer credit and increased credit to people they know won't be able to pay. This is a very backwards business model.

I think that 3 billion when out the door when GM folded Buick into the Pontiac-GMC division.

I thought about that too. However, remember that the current GP was introduced as the GP G-Force concept, and very little changed from concept to reality in that case.

Also keep in mind that the Lucerne comes with a longer warranty. I would choose the prestige of the Lucerne over the boyish charm of the Impala.

That's so disappointing. Why can't GM get a single interior done right with no excuses? This is so frustrating! The Lesabre had padded lower dash panels.

The LaCrosse is supposedly outselling the Century and Regal in retail sales, but definitely not in total overall sales. We'll know tomorrow if the LaCroose will break 100k for 2005.

I have a question about the Lucerne interior for those who have seen it in person. Is the big dash piece, just below the strip of wood and around the black plastic radio/HVAC surround everyone is complaining about, hard? The plastic on the LaCrosse in simialr areas is soft, so I had assumed the same would be true in the Lucerne.

The Ciera was actually introduced in 82, along with the Century, 6000, and Celebrity. Most of the cars Olds killed off in the 1990s didn't achieve huge sales individually, but when you add them all up together, the picture isn't pretty. These were the cars that appealed most to the tradionalists. The Toronado sold 6436 units in its last year The Custom Cruiser sold 4347 units in its last year The Ciera sold 126,137 units in its last year The 98 sold 15,135 units in its last year. The total is 152055 Keep in mind, this figure represents the lowest sales for each model. The number would be much higher if we took the peak sales information.

The Park Avenue Ultra had real wood door spears from 97-99. The wood around the window switches and ont he dash was fake, though there there was mention of the fake wood being replaced by the real stuff for 99. In 2000 all of the wood trim in the Ultra disappeared and was replaced by that awful dimpled black plastic trim. In 2002, both trim levels received a new style of fake wood trim. In 2003, the ultra got an exclusive style of fake wood trim that lasted until the car was discontinued. In 2004, the fake wood trim in the base level was replaced with a new style of fake wood that also lasted until the car's demise.

Is there some place where I can get just the retail sales numbers instead of total sales numbers?

Keep in mind that the LaCrosse was just being introduced at this time last year. If you look at some of the monthly sales figures earlier in the year, the LaCrosse is actually down on sales.

My Nissan Altima has has dual auto down/up windows in the front. It was part of the convenience package I got. Surely the Buick should match the features of a car in a lower price class.

That's really a shame. Why can't GM seem to make a single decent interior? The Malibu and G6 suffer from big hard center consoles sticking out of the rest of the dash; the LaCrosse has awful plasti-wood trim and too much dead space on the center console; the STS should have the wood on the door trim standard and suffers from cheap-looking radio/HVAC controls; The Lucerne and DTS have floor consoles almost straight out of a '98 Seville; the Colorado/Canyon interior is a joke compared to the Tacoma and Frontier; the SRX...need I say more?; the Imala suffers from lower dash cheapness and plain door panels; the Saturn Ion is a disaster all around even with the improvements; and the Equinox dash plastic are cheap and/or brittle. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

I would venture to say that the biggest reason for the increase in Malibu sales is the discontinuation of the Classic. Rental companies are now purchasing Malibus.

The interior redesign is a letdown. 1) The wood looks fake, especially because of the molded look around the speedo/tach etc. 2) The floor console is now black plastic. 3) The corporate radio head looks hideous in this application, though it's not bad elsewhere 4) The climate control should have a displa. Cars costing 10-15k less with automatic climate control have displays.

The CXL V8 at 31k isn't bad. The problem with the old pushrod V6 is that it sounds less refined outside of the car. I'm sure the lucerne will sound as quiet inside as a Lexus due to Buick's recent sttempts to quell cabin noise, but it's the sound you hear when standing outside of the car that doesn't match up with more modern engines. Also, a sub 200hp rating isn't going to help the car in any comparisons. Even if the engine's torque rating is ample, the media will blast the car for only having 197hp. Thus the quality gap perception will continue.

Chevy did sell 24k Malibus in August, but that has more to do with the Classic being discontinued than anything else. Last year the Malibu and Classic sold 24k combined.

Ford owns Hertz. That's why most of Hertz's vehicles are Fords.