hyperv6

Sorry but the story says coupe only at this point. They quoted "Pontiac isan't releasing the details on the Pursit, other than saying only a 2 door coupe will be sold in the United States and there will differences between the U.S. and Canadian models." "Jim Graham president of the UAW local 1112 said the new model will have a different interior than the Pursuit." Plant and union officals have been trying to land another model to maintain production levels if the Cobalt sales slow.

Dave is very correct with the G5 as being coupe only. Also here are some other fact to note. production is expexted to be 25,000-30,000 per year on the G5 The Ion is reported not to be coming to Lordstown, GM is reported as not building a redesigned Ion. [per UAW local pres] The new model will be similar to the Pursuit but differ with the Mexican G4 and the Canadian Pursuit. It will also be sold in the US only. Production will start in June or July. No new workers will be added to the plant. It is claimed dealers have been begging for an entry level car. [Claim by dealer rep]. In the end the car looks to be a stop gap and quick fix till they get the car they want. It will also help take up production at GM's largest facility. GM could build this car till they have the budget and platform for their new car or they can pay workers to stay home in a job bank and still have to pay them. In the end this is no panic as it will work out. It is just the best of a bad situation. It is not what I hoped GM would do but it is the best they can do at this time. They have bigger fish to fry right now. At least this platform is not a bad car and after seeing the Cobalts reviews it should do fine till the better car arrives.

Don't get too upset here! Now that you got a grip this car is just to plug a hole for only a short period of time. GM can do this car for pennies on the dollar as car development goes and once the budgeted real money arrives they will get a car you will love and make you forget this car altogether. GM would love nothing more to have the car they really want right now but they don't have the needed funding to do it correctly right now. This is just the same thing that the GTO from down under has done. It is not doen to win critics but to plug gaps in a line up bungled by those in the late 90's If anyone wants to help they could write a check to GM so they can build what they want now. HMMMM I don't see anyone writing?? Well your just going to have to wait till they have the staff and money to do it right. Every thing has it's priority and needed funding at GM and it has to happen in its time not. I know everyone wants everything done right now but it's not going to happen that way. Is this car to plug a whole till a new RWD small Coupe or Sedan comes? I don't know if that is what is coming but it would be a great replacment and I would be willing to live with the Coblat car for a few years to get a small RWD or killer car in the line up.

The scoop should be functional. The Mustang has fake scoops and Chevy should do better that.

If you have not seen the Concept car and are in Ohio here is your chance to see it in person. The Silver running car is expected to appear at the Cleveland auto show at the end of Febuary. Come out and see it as pictures do not do it justice.

Well Pontiac needs to target Low end Audi and BMW not the high end. Dodge is Chevys problem and Mazda is Saturns problem. Pontiac is not going to be a full line offering and can addord to compete in the nich market of RWD perfromance models. A Buick. Pontiac, GMC dealer will offer cars to handle the low end near luxury market in both large Lexus like sedans and crossovers and let Pontiac address the performance sedan and coupe market. Even in the good old days Buick was far down the list of performance enthusiast. They had good product but between price and image performance guys went for the cheaper more basic cars. Solstice is fine just make sure to update and add options and special editions to keep interst. Added performance to keep ahead is important. G6 Good volume car but with a new Malibu coming is it needed? A Small RWD sporting sedan would make a great entry level performance car to reach the youth market. A 4 door 2 door and even a Nomad like small wagon or kam back would fit the bill here. The wagon needs to be trendy like the Mini Cooper. GP/GTO/Bonnie Here is the place you replace 3 cars with 2. No rental offerings here. Cars should be offered with most options but performance themed over all. A sport coupe and sport sedan should be offered. Strong V8 and V6 engien with large tires and sport suspensions only. No value leaders here that is Chevys job. These cars need not to match the compitition but beat the compitions in all areas of performance and quality. I have no problem with the GTO name but lose the G8. Pontiac can't afford a name like G8 and then have the G8 council in Europe do something against the United States. That would be like naming a car the Sadam. I would ditch the Vibe [not even a GM car anyway] and all the rest of the SUV/Mini van like badge swapped like vehicles. The only thing that does concern me here is the Dodge Caliber. The performanc looks good but will people buy the SUV/Mini Van/sedan styling. I would like to think not but in todays market this could end up being a home run. I just can't call this one. This is where the mini trendy performance wagon would help. If GM moves foward with AWD options on any of these platforms make Pontiac the primary dealer of AWD. You might also offer it on Buicks sedans also [same Dealer]. Pontiac has for a long time pretended to be Americas Euro performance Sedan since the days of John D. This is there chance to do it and do it right. They do not have to worry selling as many cars a Chevy. Buick and Pontiac would again be stepping stones to Caddy now that Caddy is becoming a world player. Pontiac and Buick needs to eliminate all rebadged Chevys. They need to make their cars their own. My feeling is GM is marketing to the low end luxury and performance market. If you look at the road racing they are involved with and the companies they are racing that is their target market. As for the NHRA I am not sure where they are going here other than they have been there a long time and it may be a good value [cheap]. Anyway the Buick, Pontiac, GMC dealers can and should thrive as long as they don't offere rebadged Chevys. Chevy would intern benifit with the wide range of cars they offere at great pricing with out competing with the other GM divisions. Now that I think of it I would leave Saturn to compete with Acura and Mazda vs Pontiac. Their Euro presents and FWD would set them apart from the others. Now if we only knew what the Chinese and Koreans would be doing in 5 years? They are the one's I fear.

If it ends up a GTO by name may still be up in the air but Pontiac will have a sedan and coupe with nich performance overtones not seen in Chevy or Buick. One thing unless GM state differently there will not be a Firebird. I expect a concept but will it be named GTO? The G6 will not carry Pontiac nor will FWD. Also the Torrent is nice but they do not need a SUV, leave it to GMC. Pontiac could use a MINI type car, the Solstice, a RWD car to replace the G6 and a larger RWD sedan and coupe to replace the GTO and GP. Leave the Lexus luxo type stuff to Buick. Pontiac does not need a lot of cars in the line up just ones that count! A car line a Saturn owner will step up too when they become the Opel of America. Keep the little and smaller cars away from Buick. Let them do the large Sedans and luxo crossovers. Buick needs to target Lexus and Infinity. Pontiac needs to target Acura, Audi and BMW under 50K. Let Caddy do war over 50K BMW and Mercedes.

I know with in GM Zeta did not die in reality. I knew it was still alive before GM anounced the delay in not so many words last March. My point of the Zeta Died is it died in Motor Trend, Edmunds and many other web sites that week. I don't base anything off these sites. There may be changes coming but it is not always the end of the world.

Zeta died before too.

Please note HA HA is Humor and not a slight. I have read your post on what GM can and can't do. "Please explain how every day sets the clock back 30 months on the Zeta"? You made this statement on Jan 13 and at that rate where would that leave us on the Camaro being built? I just would like to know more about this time line as I do not understand the timing. Can the time be made up when a decision is made?

I am glad you at least now admit it is possible to see the Camaro in the fall of 08. Though I know you say it is unlikley. Gee, your not getting soft on us are you? [Ha Ha]

You have to save his post and put them together as he can't hit you over the head with everything he knows. You have to pay attention to how he words things to make it all fit together. The great thing is they do fit together to the informed. By informed I mean those who watch the public moves by GM. He feeds a little info that if you pay attention to what GM's moves are add up to what really is going on. It is like parts of a puzzle, Scott gives the pieces and you have to put it together. The info I have learnd from him in the past has all panned out so it is best to watch what he post over various sites.

Scott S said we would be shocked at what vehicle would share the same assembly line as the Camaro. I agree with most of what is posted based on what I have heard from principals involved by GM and the the moves GM is makeing. I wonder where are naysayers are when I started this thread?

Get a grip I am not an insider but I listen to People like Scott Settlemire and learn! By listening to him I have learned many insiders know as much as we do and sometimes less. GM has not anounced but odds are 99.9% that the Camaro is going to be built. The only thing that would stop it is a unforseen major event at GM or world event. I think you will find the Camaro was decided before Detroit internally. For GM to build a show car and not build it would have done more damage to GM than anything else they have done in the past. Even though some may want to think it Wagoner, Lutz and Welborn are not that stupid. The car was shown with the full intent to build it. A lot of things had to fall into place before the Camaro could return and they are all coming together now. Scott said he plans to write a book on what they have had to go through to get the Camaro back. I am sure it will show who the hero's are.

It is a done deal that GM will anounce they are building the Camaro. But on the Firebird??? Scott S. Fbodfather stated about a month ago that it was not very likley a Firebird was in the mix here. He said he would never rule out a return but in the near term it just was not in the cards. Unless someone has done something to change what Scott knows I don't expect a Bird. GM has also made it clear they want to get away from overlapping lines and 2 F bodies do just that. Even if they want to drop the GTO name a upscale BMW coupe would not hurt Camaro sales and give Pontiac what they always wanted a Euro coupe that will run with the BMW and Audi. The Sedan would also compliment a market area GM does not address now in the 3/5 series. The CTS does now but I think it will go even more upscale than the 3 Series. If Scott is looking on here can you repost your coments on the Firebird? I would think you can help stop this before it gets started like the False Kappa Camaro debate of last year.

I think you better take care on inviting this cat into the house. He can and would make changes just to make a buck not just save GM. If he could make more money splitting the company up he would do it in a heart beat. Once his pocket is full he will have no care for what is left! But again it's just buisness.

AWD is just a though as Chrysler has a AWD package for the LX and I am sure for the LY chassie. I have not seen GM say anything on AWD other than the Holden platform is AWD capable. If GM has it where will they fit it in? Because of cost I would not expect Chevy. Now Buick and Pontiac would be in the right price range. These are not the 60's any more or cheap cars so you might call them muscle cars but in truth they are competing against Audi and BMW lower end cars as sport sedans. The GTO is never going to be a Camaro or Mustang fighter. GM needs it to do it's job in the price range above the Camaro. I see the GTO being what John Delorean originally invisioned a true Euro coupe/ sedan fighter not a American poser as GM made it. John D tried to get things like radial tires, rear disc brakes, OHC engines and Fuel injection back in the mid 60's to only be shot down by GM managment. The true GTO he wanted was much more advanced but was just never allowed to bring it to market. I expect the new car to be more of what he invisioned. Pontiac for years wanted a to be a Euro car but never fit the bill. But I can see they really have a chance now to be a world car not just another American car. Lets face it I am a Pontiac guy through and through but they never convinced me the early 70's Grand Am was a Euro fighter as it was claimed. Nice car but not a BMW fighter and I was just a kid then and knew better. I have a hunch all Pontiacs will be RWD at the very least in the future. I can see the FWD being moved off the line up someday.

If more people on this site would pay Scott more attention there would be a lot less arguing about the future of the Camaro and GM RWD car in general. He is the only insider I trust 100%

If you catch them could you post pic's to show what happens to infidels!

New twist the small rear doors or AWD? AWD would give the GTO something many in it's class lacks. Just a thought.

Gee, like we did not see this coming. Just glad they are speaking publicly now. Zeta, GTO, Camaro, Impala, other sedans, 08-09 production all are not suprises. I am suprised that the Buick Velite has been saved. I never expected it to be mentioned again.

I agree fully on this and Scott S has made this point very clear. He would never say never but left the statement with a good indications there are no plans to go revisit a Firebird in the future

I will extend a applogy to evok on my time line. I missed a year some place and hope he feels better with my new time line. I expect the Camaro in the summer or fall of 08 so it would be just over 30 months and not the 18-24 I stated inccorectly. Lutz has stated publicly that he will doo what he ca tor get this car to maket in 08 as a 09. I knew it would be late in 08 but forgot to count one year in my months. I expect the GTO to be in a few months before or after the GTO. The RWD sedans I will bet will come before either as that is where the money is at. But I will stand on the fact Pontiac will have a 2 dooe euro like perfromance coupe. I also expect the GTO name to carry on as it has too much equity to not use it with this kind of machine.

Most GM desisions are made weeks and months before we hear about them. It is very unlikely they would have shown the car in Detroit with out plans to build. I will offer a big appology to Ah Ha as like I said we all can be wrong. I got mixed up on my years and I expect to see this car in Summer or fall of 08 as a 09. So I think he might be better inclined to agree with a 25-30 month time line. Which is still good. Lutz did state publicly he was commited to getting the car out in 08 as a 09. This was my error and not sure where I lost 12 months but either way the Camaro will be coming and I am sure we will see more on a GTO soon. I think the big key is the plant where it will be built. With the GP and W bodies shutting down in Canada in 08 I think this might be a good clue but not enought to confirm or deny anything od yet. So anyway I hope Ah Ha is better with my new time line and accepts my appology for my Error. I expect a GTO to come a few months before the Camaro or few months later just as the Pickup will follow the SUV's. I still expect the sedans to be first of any of them. That is where the big money will be. As for China, If the UAW does not back down finding any car built in America someday will be like finding a Zenith TV built in the States.

First: off it is only my personel speculation and just leave it at that! I have never claimed to be an insider but I do listen when many KNOWN insiders talk. That is where I try to peice it together Second: you were the one stating on Sept 4 2005 that claimed there was no Camaro concept and the SUV's would rule the Detroit show???? I hope your info on the Camaro has gotten better. But it is ok as no one gets it right all the time and you have supplied good info before and I have enjoyed it so PLEASE don't take it as a flame just an example that even your info can miss or be off just like everyone elses from time to time. Fact is if this is going to be a 09 as [GM/Lutz] claims 18-20 24 at best months is about right unless there is some kind of quality delay etc.. This car was not just started last summer. Only finacial problems can hurt things that might prevent this car coming to market. When do you expect this car 2010-2012??? It is not going to be that late!! GM can't afford to be that late after showing the car this year and they know it. The Solstice went from Clean sheet of paper in Oct of 2001 to show room Aug 2005 year if I recall. I can not recall the month they approved production. They had no platform and the drivetrain had not been used in a RWD. ON the other hand the present Zeta is going into to production in Austrailia and will be used world wide for RWD including North America. The drivetrain is already done and certified in the LS series of engines and tranny combo's. Work on this Camaro has gone on for more than 2 years at this point so I am sure most of the finer points are sorted out. GM should have some idea where they are doing the RWD cars since they are cutting cars and plants in 07-09. Also they must know what vehicle will share the Camaro plant since Scott S has publicly stated where ever [i sure he know and can't state] they build the Camaro you will be suprised at the vehicle that will share the line. I think Scott would have the best idea of what was going on and his statement speaks volumes. Anyway I'm not going to argue this it is just my opinion right or wrong and leave it at that. In time we will find out and all this will be forgotten anyway. We should have a web forum contest to guess the date and the winner gets a Cheers and Gears virtual Steak dinner e mailed to them. It would not be very filling but it would be fun to see who can get the right year and month. You have to keep this light and have fun with it.