thegriffon

But it still outsells the GM vans on a regular basis. You can understand why GM may be reluctant to commit to a replacement, when clearly a 20 yo van will do just fine. Such a lot of this market is actually for conversions—many are converted into A- and B-class school buses, airport shuttles, step-vans, RVs etc., and any new design requires extensive retooling by customers as well as GM and Ford. A number of these converters offer both Ford and GM versions, and a new design may see them drop that version rather than retool. That's why the trucks get a new design while the related vans do not, and may not next time either. A new IP, powertrain upgrades and minor cosmetic changes may be the limit that the (demand and business case) allow. In Europe there is a much, much smaller market for such extensive conversions, and much more competition to drive upgrades (even with co-operation pacts there are still GAZ/LDV, Renault/Nissan/GM, Fiat/PSA, Mercedes and Volkswagen [sharing one class and competing in others], Iveco at the top end and the odd Toyota Hiace).The business case will not always be about sufficient demand, but sometimes sufficient capacity. External economic factors, demographics etc will effect the product mix, and 2012 is a long way away, even if volume remains stable, so GM will want flexibility to move products around to increase production of some models and decrease others.

You'll have to wait for the passenger versions. What does a rolling tool box need painted bumpers for?

They're small (subcompact) commercial vans—what do you expect? The rebadging is really no worse than the GMC Savana/Chevy Express.

Huh, you're right. For some reason my price list has 250 PS instead of 280 PS. The R36 is 300 PS.

Toyota Camry 3.5 V6 272 $23,960 Nissan Altima 3.5 V6 274 $24,705 Saturn Aura XR 3.6 V6 255 $25,495 Kia Amanti 3.8 V6 266 $26,195 Hyundai Azera 3.8 V6 267 $26,195 Dodge Charger SXT 3.5 V6 255 $26,580 Honda Accord 3.5 V6 272 $26,595 Pontiac G6 GTP 3.6 V6 255 $26,695 Chevrolet Malibu 3.6 V6 255 $26,995 Pontiac G8 3.6 V6 265 $27,595 Toyota Avalon 3.5 V6 270 $27,735 Chrysler 300 3.5 V6 255 $28,685 Nissan Maxima 3.5 V6 259 $28,755 Subaru Legacy GT 2.5T B4 246 $28,940 Lincoln MKZ 3.5 V6 267 $29,890 Volkswagen Passat 3.6 V6 280 $30820 Subaru Legacy 3.0R 3.0 B6 245 $31,940Some of these are 2007MY prices, but most are for the 2008 MY. Power figures are PS, partially from memory and should be taken only as a rough guide.The Malibu is the LTZ, a 2LT with the 3.6 will presumably be cheaper.

That's a given, but only goes so far.

They did a similar test of older models (G6, Solara, Sebring) and again complained that the entire segment sucks, almost by definition, but of course, there has to be a winner.

It's not that much more than a 3.6 L G6. What do you want? A G8 priced lower than the G6? We have one of those already—it's called a Grand Prix.

You just have to register, and of course, not even that if/when the article is published by AutoWeek.

Word is IRS will be available on Delta II, as with C1 platform, Civic sedan and more expensive Toyotas.

Someone has been watching: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...REG/71001010/-1

I was merely pointing out further interesting info on GM programs, if you know how to find the documents, in some format.

The UAW agreement includes a moratorium on plant closings (except those already identified) until 2012. The G6 stays at Orion until 2013, so it could be closed then, but that will be under a new agreement yet to be negotiated, and any new product is too far out for either planning or union commitments. Wilmington however would be idled before then if there is no new product, so t seems they will do something, even if they haven't decided what.

The PDF has, yes, but you don't have to read the pdf version. :AH-HA_wink: If you still can't find page 53 the presentation(s) is on a different site and has even more info.

You may want to read page 53 of said document. :AH-HA_wink: The related presentation is also interesting reading.

I don't bother remembering this stuff, I just keep the details handy.

The last two numbers were originally gross hp, and the first fiscal (taxable) hp. Thus the 315 had 3 fiscal hp and 15 actual hp, but as power climed this gaveway to simple incremental changes (326, 327, 328) unrelated to either hp or displacement. Later models switched to a pure displacement designation (1800, 2000 etc.), with some variation when the same engine was used in different models (2000 and 2002 etc.). The current model numbers have rarely been an accurate measure of displacement. As a single displacement in different states of tune have been offered in some models each has had to have a different number. Marketing plays a role as well, and competition with Mercedes—thus the 328i is named to match the Mercedes C280 with the same power (which is not a 2.8 L either), and influenced by older models which did have 2.8 L engines. The 545i (and current 745d) was actually a 4.4 L, and the 550i is actually a 4.8 L etc., and there are far older examples (The 733 of 1987 was actually a 3.2 L, and IIRC there was a 2.5 L 327i or was it the other way around?). Thus the last two numbers are nominal displacement rather than actual displacement. BMW's latest I6 block was formerly built in two different sizes—2.5 and 3.0 L, but the 2.5 L engine has largely been dropped in favor of different tune 3.0 L engines. The base 2.5 L was used in the 523i, the next power level was the 525i, followed by the 3.0 L 528i (unique to North America) and 530i. With the switch to new direct-injection engines the 525i becomes a 3.0 L (but with the same power and torque), while the 523i remains a 2.5 L (but now with more power). Although the 125i is still port injection it too uses the 3.0 engine, again with the same power as the older 2.5 L 525i and 325i and the new 3.0 L DI 325i and 525i. The 135i, 335i and 535i use a DI biturbo version of the previous, slightly lower displacement aluminum 3.0 L. 2.0 L four-cylinder engines are dubbed either 118i/318i or 120i/320i (and the same for the diesels) depending on the power level, and there is also a higher-output 123d, with the biturbo setup on the 2.0 L diesel. the 525d used to be a 2.5 L tiurbodiesel, but is now a low-boost version of the VGT 3.0 L turbodiesel.

An even lower cost reduction than price reduction, and oh, yeah … CAFE.

What does the DEtnews think is a Cadillac SUV?

It's far longer than normal for a fleet car, so I suspect the new car will be on the shorter wheelbase (2750 mm?), and nearly identical to the Vectra replacement, while the Aura will be reduced to a high-end V6 models in a higher price range, and may even be exported to Europe to go up against the 607 and Azera.

Of course a notchback can also be a coupe.

A sedan with a "trunk" rather than a fastback or wagon. E.g. the Vectra is built as a fastback (GTS), notchback, and the lwb wagon and Signum hatchback. A notchback is usually easily identified, but the distinctions between the others can be somewhat blurred. A "sedan" is broadly any "closed" car (as opposed to an open or convertible car)—many old sedans are fastbacks with fixed rear windows, and even older sedans often had no space behind the rear seat at all. Thus "notchback" is more precise.

Few companies build more than one diesel V6, except to add sequential turbos for higher output. Once you get into that price and power range yo8u really don't need another. Aside from the broader HFV6 range (2.8 to 3.6 L), there are more V6s than those listed being built—the LZ-series CVVT 60deg V6 range starts at 3.0 L (AFM).

possibly, but the new Saturn could also be smaller than the Aura.

Something like the Zafira.