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    450 Fleet Customers Line Up for Ford's E-Transit Vans

      Ford is proud to open registration for the new E-Transit Vans supported by 645 Commercial Vehicle Center Dealers across the U.S. E-Transit joins America's best-selling commercial van, the Ford Transit family.

    E-Transit registration opened today, Wednesday 5th of May 2021 for commercial customers highlighted by the fact that they have over 450 commercial customers showing purchase intentions. Pricing for all configurations start at $43,295 and go up to $52,690. Expanded details are available on Fleet Home Page (ford.com)

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    Ford used more than 30 million miles of Ford Telematics data in confirming that the average commercial vans in North America only drive 74 miles a day. Ford also understands that there are days with long and shorter range as well as hot and cold weather. This allowed Ford to target the E-Transit with a starting point of 126 miles of range for the Cargo Van Low-roof models with larger battery packs available as needed.

    E-Transit is built without compromise according to Ford as the maximum payload is 3,800 lbs. of cargo for the van low-roof model on a regular wheelbase, 4,250 lbs. on a chassis cab and 4,290 lbs on cutaway. Ford also offers Pro Power onboard which provides a 2.4kW of power for recharging tools and powering tools like drills, saws, jackhammers, laptops and more. Keeping you powered to get the job done is the goal of Pro Power by Ford. 

    Ford offers a very functional and accommodating interior. Ford redesigned the center console with a new rotary shifter and e-brake on the panel. improved walk-through, and a rear shelf delete giving even more head room when moving around the van.

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    12 inch touch screen with Available Sync 4 can make a perfect crew member with built in navigation and so much more.

    E-Transit is available in the following:

    • three cargo van roof  heights
    • three cargo van body lengths
    • Chassis cab and cutaway models

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    The E-Transit is build to be driven and helps by having Ford Co-Pilot360 technology and Smart Acceleration Control. Ford has you covered with an 8 years or 100,000 miles (whichever comes first).

    According to Ford, demand is growing for electric vans based on Ford data, shows 70 percent of the full size bus and van business is going electric by 2030 representing over 300,000 BEVs annually in the commercial space. Demand for the wide range of configurations options is based on the history of Ford selling into the commercial space where Ford data shows 40 percent lean towards high-roof vans with the remaining 60 percent going with medium and low roof vans.

    The Ford E-Transit joins the growing family of electric auto's including the F-150e and Mach-E

    All-New-Ford-E-Transit_Mustang-Mach-E_All-Electric-F-150.jpg

    Ford Opens E-Transit Registration Site, Releases New Targeted MSRP as Top Fleet Customers Line Up for All-Electric Van | Ford Media Center

    2022 Ford® E-Transit | All-Electric Chassis Cab, Cutaway & Cargo Van

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    16 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Oooch- the BE Ford vans are PRICEY!

    Not really. The gas models start at (and go way up from):

    1425305748_ScreenShot2021-05-06at12_28_49PM.thumb.png.04b2e4d26474c19b1dd1b96fea96a41f.png

    925918501_ScreenShot2021-05-06at12_30_48PM.thumb.png.a58e64666164ff10c1aa5be9f6d58fbe.png

    2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Not really. The gas models start at (and go way up from):

    1425305748_ScreenShot2021-05-06at12_28_49PM.thumb.png.04b2e4d26474c19b1dd1b96fea96a41f.png

    925918501_ScreenShot2021-05-06at12_30_48PM.thumb.png.a58e64666164ff10c1aa5be9f6d58fbe.png

    It is a jump but it's not THAT big of a jump. When factoring in fewer parts to upkeep and/or replace, that gap closes even more.

    Edited by surreal1272
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    17 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Oooch- the BE Ford vans are PRICEY!

    Considering reduced maintenance costs and no fuel costs by replacing it with a much lower electric recharge costs that would be done at the distribution center overnight, I can see major costs reductions within 12 to 18 months of moving to a BEV Van.

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    $12,000 is a lot to makeup in fuel and maintenance. I'm curious what the breakeven point it on those for most companies. I'd wager it is within 5 years though. 

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    1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

    $12,000 is a lot to makeup in fuel and maintenance. I'm curious what the breakeven point it on those for most companies. I'd wager it is within 5 years though. 

    Will have to find the study done on Commercial Vans, but I did at one time post it in the Alternative Fuels and Propulsion thread that showed most companies recouped the higher initial cost of a BEV within 18 to 24 months.

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    @ccap41 Here are some of the studies.

    BEF_EV-cost-benefit-study_2020.pdf (b-e-f.org)

    This is one of the more detailed and indepth studies for the state of Colorado.

    Electric Vehicle Charging Implications for Utility Ratemaking in Colorado (nrel.gov)

    Forbes research article on the cost of BEVs.

    Electric Vehicles Cost Less Than Half As Much To Drive (forbes.com)

    Course we cannot ignore the cost of revving up the grid to support the increase use of BEV.

    The Costs of Revving Up the Grid for Electric Vehicles (bcg.com)

    We have the college studies that show saving money.

    EV Cars and Trucks Will Help Consumers Save Money | 2021-04-29 | ASSEMBLY (assemblymag.com)

    We also have the articles that talk directly with the OEMs where even they say that specific parts of EVs will drop in cost reducing costs.

    Ford Is Betting That Solid-State Batteries Will Cut EV Costs | Business News | US News

    Course plenty of studies such as this one that shows a big saving but it is then negated by the cost of charging infrastructure which is where the battle is for getting the government to pay for the chargers that commercial auto's would use.

    EV charging setup would cost Schneider, NFI more than 10 times annual fuel savings: study | Transport Dive

    I think it all depends on how one approaches the cost and return on investment. I see Waste Management as a perfect example of where they wanted quieter and cleaner trucks over the toxic diesel and noise of the old garbage trucks. As such they invested long term for their own use and opened up their CNG fueling stations to the public allowing the public to use and help pay for the cost.

    I believe over time, commercial high speed charging can be paid for by allowing the public to use it as well.

    Course we then have studies such as this AAA study.

    Study: Cost of Owning an EV Only Slightly Higher than Gas-Powered Cars - The News Wheel

    This study points out a current cost of $600 a year more for EV over BEV due to higher auto costs. Yet this is one thing that the review of the AAA study points out:

    QUOTE

    Per AAA, drivers will pay around $546 to drive 15,000 miles a year, which is well under half the estimated $1,255 in fuel costs for a gas-powered vehicle. Because they don’t require oil and filter changes, EVs maintained in accordance to manufacturer recommendations cost $330 less than a gas-powered vehicle per year.

    With fuel and maintenance factored in, the end result is that an electric vehicle would be around $400 cheaper per year than the total cost of driving a gas-powered car.

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    9 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    $12,000 is a lot to makeup in fuel and maintenance. I'm curious what the breakeven point it on those for most companies. I'd wager it is within 5 years though. 

    Base prices on the Ford vans here are apparently about 8 grand apart. However, the ‘snake oil’ sales pitch of some BE-fans seem to not read their own source materials. The Forbes link above states the fueling cost in Hawaii is about $400 different/yr, and about $500 in Alabama. That would equate to 20 years and 16 years for the EV to achieve price parity with IC on ‘no gas’ alone. Or; no where near either “18 months” or 5 years.

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    6 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Base prices on the Ford vans here are apparently about 8 grand apart. However, the ‘snake oil’ sales pitch of some BE-fans seem to not read their own source materials. The Forbes link above states the fueling cost in Hawaii is about $400 different/yr, and about $500 in Alabama. That would equate to 20 years and 16 years for the EV to achieve price parity with IC on ‘no gas’ alone. Or; no where near either “18 months” or 5 years.

    Yes, there will always be places that are higher than ICE in these early days of BEV/PlugIn Hybrids use. I can see Alaska as another place that would be more expensive.

    Though last time I read on Hawaii, they were working very hard for renewable solar and wind to have BEV be cheaper.

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    "The average cost to operate an EV in the United States is $485 per year, while the average for a gasoline-powered vehicle is $1,117, according to the study by Michael Sivak and Brandon Schoettle of Michigan's Transportation Research Institute."

    According to the study, it was fuel costs only. 

    I'm not finding anything in those links that mentions anything other than fuel savings. They say that EVs have lower running costs but never put a number to it, so it's just theoretical.

    7 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Base prices on the Ford vans here are apparently about 8 grand apart. However, the ‘snake oil’ sales pitch of some BE-fans seem to not read their own source materials. The Forbes link above states the fueling cost in Hawaii is about $400 different/yr, and about $500 in Alabama. That would equate to 20 years and 16 years for the EV to achieve price parity with IC on ‘no gas’ alone. Or; no where near either “18 months” or 5 years.

    Exactly. and none of those links discussed the maintenance side of things which, so we've been told, is huge savings as well. Saving $500/yr is nice and all but it'll never realistically recoup the initial $12,000 investment before it gets replaced. 

    I can calculate fuel savings myself, I'm curious about the maintenance that these companies and individuals will be saving on, supposedly. 

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    Sorry, I missed the AAA one.

    "With fuel and maintenance factored in, the end result is that an electric vehicle would be around $400 cheaper per year than the total cost of driving a gas-powered car."

    $400/yr will not pay off the $12,000 borrowed before the vehicle needs replacing or major repair work, upping the pay-off period. 

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    1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

    $400/yr will not pay off the $12,000 borrowed before the vehicle needs replacing or major repair work, upping the pay-off period. 

    No it will not, but don't worry!! OEMs will be passing ALL SORTS of costs savings right directly onto you in just a few months time from now! 😆

     

    It's a major calculating flaw in these battery electric-pro pieces; they use nebulous numbers at best (like using a 3000-mile oil change interval in their math - who changes their oil every 3000 miles anymore??), to just vapor claims with not a shred of empirical data ('stuff is gonna get cheaper, mark my words!'). It seems to be the new pseudo-science, not unlike the techno-babble in Star Trek movies; it sounds plausible but it's closer to a script.

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    when tax laws get rewritten to recover those gas taxes they collect from fuel sales, and add that back into EV charging costs, because you know they will....... the 'electrics cheaper' won't be cheaper anymore. They just need to hook enough fish with the cheaper untaxed electrical miles first and then go in the usual kill.

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    4 minutes ago, regfootball said:

    when tax laws get rewritten to recover those gas taxes they collect from fuel sales, and add that back into EV charging costs, because you know they will....... the 'electrics cheaper' won't be cheaper anymore. They just need to hook enough fish with the cheaper untaxed electrical miles first and then go in the usual kill.

    EV's will still be cheaper especially for those that invest in a 220 home charger. Example is that the gas tax is 45 cents per gallon. If you take that and do the math, you can see how much the tax per gallon covers in miles, apply that same charge to electric auto's plus the cheap electric charging cost and be way under GAS costs.

    Washington state is doing a study on dropping gas tax and going with all auto's on Mileage. Once a year you drop by the Emission / Safety check place, they read your miles and you pay your bill for the miles you drove that year. A far more fare system of paying for the actual use you use on the roads. 6 cents per kilowatt here in Washington state for home charging. I figured the average cost of 400 miles a month would be about $28 when I did the math per month plus a couple dollars more for mileage tax.

    Plus as Ford, GM and others all say, about 40% less maintenance than ICE, so lower ownership costs too.

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    1 hour ago, David said:

    Washington state is doing a study on dropping gas tax and going with all auto's on Mileage. Once a year you drop by the Emission / Safety check place, they read your miles and you pay your bill for the miles you drove that year. A far more fare system of paying for the actual use you use on the roads. 6 cents per kilowatt here in Washington state for home charging. I figured the average cost of 400 miles a month would be about $28 when I did the math per month plus a couple dollars more for mileage tax.

    That red part...

    I dunno.  Paying gasoline tax EVERY time you gas up to me, is a fair way to surmise  and assess and ultimately pay for your fair share use of the road.

    The more you drive, the more you use gasoline, the more you gas up and ultimately the more you pay in gas tax for your fair share of road usage.

    I understand and agree that charging your EV up at home is almost impossible to assess how much electricity is used for home usage and how much of that is charging your vehicle, therefore another way to tax a vehicle for road maintenance is needed. But I wouldnt say a gasoline tax at the pumps is less fair.  Washington should keep the gasoline tax as gasoline powered cars arent going away.  

    Also, if we are actually honest about road wear and tear, the MOST wear and tear happens with the weather and mother nature.  

    Another HUGE factor of road wear and tear that cause MOST of the damage are the heavy (possibly but not necessarily OVER LOADED) transport trucks. 

    All in all, not a bad idea. I do not know how I feels about once a year actually going to an inspection depot for some government schlub to "inspect" my mileage.  Waste of time for me for that day, and definitely a waste of tax payer's money paying this government schlub's salary.  (several government schlubs as it will take one guy to see the mileage, another guy to record it on the computer, another to assess the situation another to calculate the tax another to e-mail you another to collect,  another to analyze who paid and who didnt,  another to...)

    And in NO WAY in hell will I EVER agree to a GPS type device to measure and detect my mileage that reports it directly or indirectly to the government and possibly to the insurances.   

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    3 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    That red part...

    I dunno.  Paying gasoline tax EVERY time you gas up to me, is a fair way to surmise  and assess and ultimately pay for your fair share use of the road.

    The more you drive, the more you use gasoline, the more you gas up and ultimately the more you pay in gas tax for your fair share of road usage.

    I understand and agree that charging your EV up at home is almost impossible to assess how much electricity is used for home usage and how much of that is charging your vehicle, therefore another way to tax a vehicle for road maintenance is needed. But I wouldnt say a gasoline tax at the pumps is less fair.  Washington should keep the gasoline tax as gasoline powered cars arent going away.  

    Also, if we are actually honest about road wear and tear, the MOST wear and tear happens with the weather and mother nature.  

    Another HUGE factor of road wear and tear that cause MOST of the damage are the heavy (possibly but not necessarily OVER LOADED) transport trucks. 

    All in all, not a bad idea. I do not know how I feels about once a year actually going to an inspection depot for some government schlub to "inspect" my mileage.  Waste of time for me for that day, and definitely a waste of tax payer's money paying this government schlub's salary. 

    And in NO WAY in hell will I EVER agree to a GPS type device to measure and detect my mileage that reports it directly or indirectly to the government and possibly to the insurances.   

     

    They actually have 3 ways that they are testing, since we have emission inspection stations here, the first is having them plug into your auto and record the miles. Second is a GPS module that is plugged into your car electronic port. Third is a module that plugs into the electronic port also, but you then connect it to your computer and send in the info.

    I have heard your very same comments about mile tax versus gas tax and the heavy trucks / buses / high GVWR auto's making more wear n tear on the roads.

    I am not a fan of the GPS system, I have no problem with the emission stations that are supposed to go away in 2025 here being changed into safety inspection stations and they record your miles. Sadly, I have seen way too many out of state auto's with broken lights, missing bumpers, etc. need safety inspection to enforce taking care of your auto.

    Having a tracking module that you can yearly plug into your computer to update the miles driven and tax owed is not bad either. Just no GPS.

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    2 minutes ago, David said:

    Sadly, I have seen way too many out of state auto's with broken lights, missing bumpers, etc. need safety inspection to enforce taking care of your auto.

    Yes...folk have to take care of their vehicles...but that is another discussion.

    You just raised another issue.  

    Out of towners do mileage on their out of town destinations.  Will put a couple of hundred to a couple of thousand miles on "foreign" soil that the home town will collect.  If a place has more tourist action than another, say California or Florida, like a Quebecois driving to Miami, and for those 2-3 weeks, will drive EVERYWHERE in Florida, then Forida gets the shaft as Quebec will get the taxes on mileage driven...  

    That aint fair.  Gasoline taxes. Well, you pay DIRECTLY in the Province or State you are currently driving at and gassing up...

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    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Washington should keep the gasoline tax as gasoline powered cars arent going away.  

    Also, if we are actually honest about road wear and tear, the MOST wear and tear happens with the weather and mother nature.  

    Another HUGE factor of road wear and tear that cause MOST of the damage are the heavy (possibly but not necessarily OVER LOADED) transport trucks. 

    yep!

    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

    And in NO WAY in hell will I EVER agree to a GPS type device to measure and detect my mileage that reports it directly or indirectly to the government and possibly to the insurances. 

    There's a MUCH greater chance that this comes to new vehicles, mandatory, before full autonomous driving does. You'll have no say... unless you stick with pre-GPS vehicles.

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    40 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    yep!

    There's a MUCH greater chance that this comes to new vehicles, mandatory, before full autonomous driving does. You'll have no say... unless you stick with pre-GPS vehicles.

    Pretty much starting with Mazda in 1990 that offered the first GPS nav system installed, the last 30 years all the auto's have some form of GPS unless one ordered it without any electronics.

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    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    There's a MUCH greater chance that this comes to new vehicles, mandatory, before full autonomous driving does. You'll have no say... unless you stick with pre-GPS vehicles.

    I fully agree with this statement.

    Im afraid the insurance companies will insist heavily on this as they could also charge the insurer on his/her driving habits and "insure" accordingly...  

    And if that happens, even pre-GPS vehicles will be mandated to have a GPS tracking device to be installed.   

    Privacy laws be damned...we already have given up on those rights with our usage of smart phones.  Our smart phones locate our position on default settings and I dont think we could turn them off...  Maybe Im wrong on that. 

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    5 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    I fully agree with this statement.

    Im afraid the insurance companies will insist heavily on this as they could also charge the insurer on his/her driving habits and "insure" accordingly...  

    And if that happens, even pre-GPS vehicles will be mandated to have a GPS tracking device to be installed.   

    Privacy laws be damned...we already have given up on those rights with our usage of smart phones.  Our smart phones locate our position on default settings and I dont think we could turn them off...  Maybe Im wrong on that. 

    You can turn off the GPS location in all smartphones, but then many of the features will no longer work.

    The option in Android phones is called LOCATION. That then makes from nav to weather, etc. not work.

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    22 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Im afraid the insurance companies will insist heavily on this as they could also charge the insurer on his/her driving habits and "insure" accordingly...  

    "Custom-tailored" insurance. Bullshit.

    >>[I]And if that happens, even pre-GPS vehicles will be mandated to have a GPS tracking device to be installed.[/I]<<
    Can't mandate a legal vehicular equipment update if said vehicle was legal at the time it was built.

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    @balthazar @oldshurst442 SB5444 is moving forward for the state and it seems you guys are right, gas tax will stay in place as is. This bill will introduce a road tax for all BEV/Plug-in Hybrids. 2.4 cents per mile is the charge being proposed. For someone that drives 15,000 miles it would be a $360 a year road tax. This is equal to our almost 50 cents per gallon gas tax based on taking an average of MPG.

    SB 5444, to impose a mileage tax on owners of electric and hybrid vehicles » Publications » Washington Policy Center

    State Transportation Commission votes to move forward on pay-per-mile charge | KOMO (komonews.com)

    Oregon has moved forward with a 1.8 cents per mile tax on BEV / Hybrids.

    VMT tax: Two states tax some drivers by the mile. More want to give it a try. - Washington Post

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