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    Rumorpile: Diesel, 10-Speed In The Cards For The F-150


    • Diesels, Ten-Speed Automatic, Aluminum Bodies.. That's what Ford has in mind for their trucks

    Even though Ford has just announced the new F-150 back in January, the automaker is already working on improvements that will be coming down the line.

    The Truth About Cars reports that Ford is working on a 3.0L V6 diesel engine, codenamed “Lion”. The new engine is in response to Ram's diesel engine for the 1500. Ford was reportedly working on a diesel engine for the F-150 in the mid-2000s, but it was canned due to financial meltdown. This new engine is expected to arrive in 2018.

    TTAC has also found out that the new 2.7L EcoBoost will produce somewhere in the range of 290 to 300 horsepower. Torque numbers are still a mystery.

    That's not all Ford has up its sleeve. TTAC reports that a new ten-speed automatic will appear in trucks and full-size SUVs in the near future. Ford also is working on aluminum bodied versions of the Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator.

    Source: The Truth About Cars

    William Maley is a staff writer for Cheers & Gears. He can be reached at william.maley@cheersandgears.com or you can follow him on twitter at @realmudmonster.

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    Could they first work on replacing the plastic cheap looking interior in the new truck. I just do not get what people seem to love about Ford Products. They even when new seem to have a cheapness about them.

    Went skiing yesterday and a Titanium edition Fiesta pulled into the parking lot at the pass and for what should be a fully loaded high end model, even my wife was not impressed. Fit and Finish left allot to be desired.

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    The old F150 is easily outselling the new Silverado. Imagine when the F150 gets the aluminum body, the 2.7 ecoboost, this diesel and a 10-speed. GM better move fast or else the F150 could leave the Silverado in the dust.

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    I do not see Ford leaving GM in the dust. Northwest, GM is currently selling more than Ford based on how much older inventory is sitting on the lots at Ford. I think this is very much regionally based as some areas clearly sell more Ford or Ram or GMC or Chevy depends on the area.

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    The styling is awful IMHO, but the improvements are noteworthy. 10-speed will work well in squeezing a few extra MPGs as long as the transmission software is clever enough; pretty sure Ford engineers will find a way to make it smooth and seamless also...

    Edited by ZL-1
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    In sleeping on this, the best thing I can see this doing for Ford and GM as well as Ram should be also considering this is to get a final gear that keeps the Diesel around 1000 to 1200 rpm to maximize cruising. This is where as we all know Diesels can really ring out efficient mileage due to the torque that can keep the auto moving where gas motors would balk and die.

    Sad that marketing has built such a lie about HP is everything and you know have the bloated heavy Over Head Cam Garbage motors with 600HP and 315lbs of torque or what ever the low torque numbers have been that some just think are amazing cause Ferrari, Lambo, etc makes their auto's this way and yet American Engineering has proven time and again that just the basic small block push rod V8 can beat them.

    Back on Topic, Exciting as I hope this finally forces GM to get with it to get the Whole Duramax Family of Diesel engines in North America. No reason not to have whisper quiet torquey diesel motors as options in the whole family of Compact to full size SUV and light duty trucks.

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    The 8-10 speed transmissions are what are going to give diesels the great advantage. When hooked to a 4-speed auto how often were those old diesels in their peak power range? From video reviews I have seen of diesel cars form the early 2000s, it seemed like they were all the same, you get power and torque briefly then the car shifts and it is gone and it takes a while to get it back. A 10 speed should eliminate that and keep the diesel within that narrow power band so that the 400+ lb-ft is always on tap.

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    >>"Now, Automotive News Europe quotes ZF CEO Stefan Sommer as saying nine speeds are the “natural limit.” In Sommer’s words, “There is no hard line, but you have to consider the law of diminishing returns. The question is whether adding even more gears makes sense.”

    That sentiment is echoed by Julio Caspari, president of ZF’s North American division, who believes that the race for more gears is driven by marketing and not engineering."<<

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    For diesels I would argue that more gears is more important than it is for gasoline engines because diesels have a relatively narrow power band,

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    Semi's have to move extraordinary weights- there the gears are mandatory.

    Light-duty trucks, even towing, don't see such an extreme vs. their outputs. IE; 5-spds behind a DuraMax is all anyone ever needs; absolutely under normal conditions, but also under 90% of towing loads.
    I can see an argument for specifically-spaced gearing totalling 8, but 10 is marketing pacification.

    And you just wait, if 10-spds become relatively common, the 'number junkies' will just clamor for 12-spds. It's bragging rights/ marketing spin, and it sucks a lot of people in, unfortunately.

    CAT C15 I-6 diesel, in the '11 Kenworth W900 tractor, is 928 CI (15.2L), is rated at 435-550 HP and 1550-1850 TRQ. It moves up to 80,000 lbs on the road. 80000 / 1850 = 43 lbs / TRQ

    A 403 CI Duramax moves like 18,000 lbs with 397 HP and 765 TRQ. 18000 / 765 = 23 lbs / TRQ.

    900 CI motors also rev much slower and in a shorter RPM range than a LD truck diesel.

    Why would 43 lbs/TRQ need 18 spds and 23 lbs/TRQ need 10??

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    Good one balth. Small diesel engines do not need more than 7 speeders.

    Unfortunately, as the automotive industry innovation when it comes to powertrain has become saturated, need for one upmanship is driving the marketing ploy.

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    At least as far as marketing goes; yes.

    There is undue emphasis on highway mileage here WRT the Ram, IMO.

    Back in the past energy crunches, highway MPG was prominently advertised in order to show big numbers. That practice was frequently called out as misleading of real world conditions.

    Since then (perhaps in response to a degree), they've come out with the so-called combined number (Yes; more fair than the prior approach). I've scanned a few articles on the Ram diesel where the city MPG number was wholly absent.

    Anyway, let's do some math, as any consumer concerned with MPG should be doing :

    Silverado 4.3 EcoTec3 is rated 18/24. Sounds terrible in comparison; "C'mon GM, get in the game!!", right?

    15000 miles/yr, divided by 18 MPG = 833 gals/yr x $3.19 (using today's prices in my area) = $2,657 for fuel.

    15000 miles/yr, divided by 24 MPG = 625 gals/yr x $3.19 = $1,993 for fuel.

    Ram EcoDiesel is rated at 21/28. "Wow Dodge, you go!"

    15000 miles/yr, divided by 21 MPG = 714 gals/yr x $3.99 (using today's prices in my area) = $2,848 for fuel.

    15000 miles/yr, divided by 28 MPG = 535 gals/yr x $3.99 = $2,134 for fuel.

    Not a huge difference ($141-191), but the Ram is more costly here.

    The bottom line is, the consumer needs to weight the WHOLE picture. Real world MPG average against the huge premium of the diesel powertrain (Ram vs. gas V6 : some $4000) and the huge premium for diesel fuel (now averaging 80 cents over 87 in central NJ). The video I saw of the Ram taking 10.3 sec to hit 60 (vs. the 4.3L being in the low 8s), and you may see much heavier feet in the Ram diesel that further compromises the MPG benefit. As more & more diesels come to market, the oil companies had better be adjusting the supply side, too, or the fuel cost gap will widen further. Sprinkle in maintenance/service costs too.

    Obviously I'm not anti-diesel (going on Year 8 sans spark plugs here), but the calculator doesn't lie. They are not cheaper to buy, maintain or operate.

    Question is, is the consumer more interested in saving gallons or dollars?

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    That $0.80 difference between regular unleaded and oil burner is not unrealistic. I would wager close to $0.65, but then you are still talking difference of mere dollars. Fuel efficiency wise, even with 10-speed transmission Ford is not going to do much better than RAM's 8-speeder.

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    The variance between diesel and 87 octane varies greatly around the country.

    As I've said to Smk, 0-60 times don't matter in the real world...especially in trucks.

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    Of course it varies, but guess what : the national average today is.... 3.26 / 3.92, a 66 cent premium/gallon for diesel. Certainly, no where is diesel close to 87 in price.

    I am positive, as more diesel cars come into the market- the "fuel inequality" price gap is going to only s p r e a d.

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    At least around here, the price for diesel sometimes swaps with gasoline in price... but that is a fuel oil demand issue.

    We've been in a bit of a cold snap lately, I would expect diesel prices to be higher.

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