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prinzSD

Opel Zafira hydogen fuel cell car in San Jose

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Last week in San Jose, California there was an alternative fuel cars display which was represented by GM, Nissan, Honda and Ford(at least in the spot where I was). GM was displaying a blue Opel Zafira hydrogen fuel cell technology. When I spoke with Mike the GM Engineer of some sort about the car and the technolgy GM was displaying, I asked him why GM was not doing a better job at promoting their efforts in alternative fuel technolgy. I mentioned the GM hybrid pick up trucks, the buses they are testing in cities, etc but the public is unaware of these efforts because of GM's poor PR. I mentioned how everyone believes Toyota is "green" despite the fact that they sell gas guzzlers but they get away with it, meanwhile GM is getting hammered. What was his response? Well, "Toyota is doing a great job with the Hybrids because they are bring hybrid technolgy to the public and creating a demand for it, which is the bridge between gas cars and hydrogen fuel cell cars". I was a little miffed at this politically correct response and told him GM needs to stop apologizing and go on the offensive and be the first of the manufactures to come out with an acceptable hydrogen fuell cell car for the public and beat Toyota for once. In parting I expressed I hoped that might be a reality and he said "it will be". Time will tell. Edited by prinzSD
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They wouldn't be the first manufacturer to come out with a fuel cell vehicle.  These are already on the streets in Cali:

Posted Image

Honda Delivers FCX Fuel Cell Vehicle to World’s First Individual Customer

Now, an acceptable fuel cell vehicle, that's another story.

-RBB

[post="24278"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Are these test vehicles for the public or a vehicle the public can buy on a mass scale? I wonder what kind of money they want for them and where the infrastructure it to fuel them.

The Honda that was there was different from this one if I remember correctly. Edited by prinzSD
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Are these test vehicles for the public or a vehicle the public can buy on a mass scale? I wonder what kind of money they want for them and where the infrastructure it to fuel them.

The Honda that was there was different from this one if I remember correctly.

[post="24285"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I remember seeing this thing test driven in a car magazine (I can't remember which one, but it was one of the major car magazines). Yes, it was a fully functioning fuel cell vehiclle. The only drawback was that it woulld cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to sell. I though they wern't for sell, but I guess if a person has that amount of cash to spend on a car, then they probably have some strings to pull to get one.
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I remember seeing this thing test driven in a car magazine (I can't remember which one, but it was one of the major car magazines). Yes, it was a fully functioning fuel cell vehiclle. The only drawback was that it woulld cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to sell. I though they wern't for sell, but I guess if a person has that amount of cash to spend on a car, then they probably have some strings to pull to get one.

[post="24338"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Well, I just read the article. Yewah, they are leasing the car......to one family. THis is a huge PR program. The car still costs hundreds of thousands...........but the PR is worth much more.
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Well, I just read the article. Yewah, they are leasing the car......to one family. THis is a huge PR program. The car still costs hundreds of thousands...........but the PR is worth much more.

[post="24342"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Yikes, that is a lot of mony for someone to pay just to make a statement. Maybe this family has more money then common sense.
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Yikes, that is a lot of mony for someone to pay just to make a statement. Maybe this family has more money then common sense.

[post="24362"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


The family is probably paying a normal lease rate for a small car, and Honda is eating the remainder of the cost. THe money lost is WELL worth the PR gained.
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The family is probably paying a normal lease rate for a small car, and Honda is eating the remainder of the cost. THe money lost is WELL worth the PR gained.

[post="24415"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I suppose you are right. This may be the opening salvo in the hydrogen fuel PR war.
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Well, I just read the article. Yewah, they are leasing the car......to one family. THis is a huge PR program. The car still costs hundreds of thousands...........but the PR is worth much more.

[post="24342"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I believe Car and Driver reviewed it a few months back. (EDIT - Yep, here's the link to the review.)

They're leasing the car only, much as GM did with the EV1. I believe the vast majority of these have been leased to government agencies and private companies, not individuals. As others have stated, they're leasing them at well below cost, taking the financial hit as a PR move.

-RBB Edited by RBB
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According to the Car & Driver article Estimated price = $200,000 Lease = $500 Mo. SWEET DEAL!!!!!! It dosen't come with XM radio though, so I will have to pass. :(
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The GM Hydrogen 3 (Opel Zafira FCV) is in relatively widespread fleet use (for a fuel-cell vehicle). Fedex and Ikea both use them, but GM doesn't pretend to "sell" them as Honda does.
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The GM Hydrogen 3 (Opel Zafira FCV) is in relatively widespread fleet use (for a fuel-cell vehicle). Fedex and Ikea both use them, but GM doesn't pretend to "sell" them as Honda does.

[post="25229"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Isn't GM supposed to use fuel cells for the non-action military and postal service soon? Also (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't GM also testing fuel cells as a auxilury power source for a DOW plant? Are they still planning to do this? If GM can start selling this things for business' and homes (and not screw it up), I think that GM could dwarf the profits that Toyota is making now. The funny thing is, I don't see Honda doing any research like this at the moment.

Link to DOW article:
http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/07/news/compa...ow_gm_hydrogen/
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The Zafira fuel cell car was available for test drive at GM's auto show in motion.

[post="24498"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yes, it was available for a test as well late in the afternoon, but since I ride Amtrak to and from work, I had a train to catch and could not test drive the vehicle. I would have loved trying it out, but I suppose it would have had long lines.
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The GM Hydrogen 3 (Opel Zafira FCV) is in relatively widespread fleet use (for a fuel-cell vehicle). Fedex and Ikea both use them, but GM doesn't pretend to "sell" them as Honda does.

[post="25229"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

As I said earlier, GM needs to get the word out on this stuff, so it desn't seem like they are sitting around while the imports get all the PR on alternative vehicles.
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I believe Car and Driver reviewed it a few months back. (EDIT - Yep, here's the link to the review.)

They're leasing the car only, much as GM did with the EV1.  I believe the vast majority of these have been leased to government agencies and private companies, not individuals.  As others have stated, they're leasing them at well below cost, taking the financial hit as a PR move.

-RBB

[post="25159"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Funny, you mention the EV-1 because it was the subject of our conversation with the GM engineer that was on hand. Speaking of the EV-1, it was also one of the cars in a book I just saw at the bookstore called CRAPCARS as well as a few other GM cars like the Vega, Fiero, Eldorado ETC, and a few others I don't recall at the moment. It was very hilarious to see some of the cars in it. Heer is a link on the book.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158234638...283155&v=glance
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Funny, you mention the EV-1 because it was the subject of our conversation with the GM engineer that was on hand. Speaking of the EV-1, it was also one of the cars in a book I just saw at the bookstore called CRAPCARS as well as a few other GM cars like the Vega, Fiero, Eldorado ETC, and a few others I don't recall at the moment. It was very hilarious to see some of the cars in it. Heer is a link on the book.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158234638...283155&v=glance

[post="25263"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I have seen that book too. Haven't read it, but now I have to(out of curious anger)! I think the EV1 was one of the most important vehicles in automotive history. I wouldn't be suprised if GM uses some of the knowledge and patents from the EV1 project to develop their hybrids and hydrogen vehicles. Side note, haven't driven a Fiero or Vega, but the Eldorado ETC WAS NOT a crap car!!!
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I have seen that book too. Haven't read it, but now I have to(out of curious anger)! I think the EV1 was one of the most important vehicles in automotive history. I wouldn't be suprised if GM uses some of the knowledge and patents from the EV1 project to develop their hybrids and hydrogen vehicles. Side note, haven't driven a Fiero or Vega, but the Eldorado ETC WAS NOT a crap car!!!

[post="25279"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I agree with you on the EV1. There were a number of techie guys out here in silicon valley trying to buy their leased EV1s from GM when GM cancelled the whole effort and started crushing the EV1s after their lease returns. Thre were several cars in the book that I did not agree with in regards to them being crap cars. BTW the number 1 crap car was the Mustang II from 1974 to 1977???

I did own two of the cars mentioned, the Vega and the Hyndai Excel. Edited by prinzSD
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