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buyacargetacheck

How to Save Saturn

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Get back to basics: a good car at a good price emphasizing high customer satisfaction and fuel-economy.

Tactics: Add Saturn to PBG's channeling effort. Phase-out current Saturn lineup and replace with sedan and wagon versions of the new Cruze. Move the upcoming Pontiac G3 to Saturn lineup. All Saturns come one way, no options like Scion but without the sophomoric accessorizing. This emphasizes the value part. Underprice to raise volume.

Why? Saturn's current positioning is a hard sale given the lack of promotion. This new plan plays to Saturn's natural strength without requiring a change in buyer perception. It also gives PBG dealers fuel-efficient cars to sell without diluting the images of its brands. This also allows Saturn to get focused while not requiring a separate dealer channel that cannot be sustained.

Downside: How to convince dealers to merge...

New PBGS:

Saturn "Aveo"

Saturn "Cruze"

Pontiac G5 coupe

Pontiac Vibe

Pontiac G6

Pontiac Solstice

Pontiac G8

Buick LaCrosse

Buick Enclave

GMC Terrain

GMC Canyon

GMC Acadia

GMC Yukon

GMC Sierra

GMC Savana

Edited by buyacargetacheck
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I agree. Saturn's great success has been with small cars and SUVs. I don't think there's room in the marketplace for them, or that GM has enough resources to pull this off for them. They are going to keep going at it with the plan in place, which investment-wise and planning-wise might be the wiser choice to make, but I don't see them gaining traction. Saturn definitely needs someone to team up with to gain exposure, but who's going to lose out in that place. Maybe they should also be sold through some Cadillac/Saab dealers. premium experience augmented by Saturn's great customer service skills. the no dicker sticker should be left at Saturn, and potentially killed altogether. I don't know, I just don't think Saturn has much potential or room for growth. there's too much of nothing there. and the ion and its vestiges really hurt.

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That's probably true.

I just see a win-win-win for GM, Saturn dealers and PBG dealers here. 4,000 pound SUVs and low-volume sports cars just aren't going to sell in a world of $5 and climbing gas. Saturn's reputation for basic economical transportation makes repositioning relatively cheap and easy. Plus, PBG dealers are going to need these Gamma and Delta vehicles too. Another way this comes together is that Saturn's current-product customers wouldn't be orphaned because PBG offers similar vehicles across the board. Price em right, shoot for 125,000 vehicles at the low end and hope for the best.

I don't know, I just don't think Saturn has much potential or room for growth. there's too much of nothing there. and the ion and its vestiges really hurt.
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Get back to basics: a good car at a good price emphasizing high customer satisfaction and fuel-economy.

Tactics: Add Saturn to PBG's channeling effort. Phase-out current Saturn lineup and replace with sedan and wagon versions of the new Cruze. Move the upcoming Pontiac G3 to Saturn lineup. All Saturns come one way, no options like Scion but without the sophomoric accessorizing. This emphasizes the value part. Underprice to raise volume.

Why? Saturn's current positioning is a hard sale given the lack of promotion. This new plan plays to Saturn's natural strength without requiring a change in buyer perception. It also gives PBG dealers fuel-efficient cars to sell without diluting the images of its brands. This also allows Saturn to get focused while not requiring a separate dealer channel that cannot be sustained.

Downside: How to convince dealers to merge...

New PBGS:

Saturn "Aveo"

Saturn "Cruze"

Pontiac G5 coupe

Pontiac Vibe

Pontiac G6

Pontiac Solstice

Pontiac G8

Buick LaCrosse

Buick Enclave

GMC Terrain

GMC Canyon

GMC Acadia

GMC Yukon

GMC Sierra

GMC Savana

astra and aura are both great cars at great prices. what's your solution now?

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They are good cars. But buyers are unimpressed probably because they're priced too high for Saturn's image. Plus, the promotional efforts just don't seem to be resonating with anyone. Solution? Don't fight who you really are! -- Saturn as a value brand based on no-optioned, well-equipped GM B and C platforms combined with Saturn's customer service programs.

astra and aura are both great cars at great prices. what's your solution now?
Edited by buyacargetacheck
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To change the Saturn game plan again/already so drastically would be a mistake, IMO. The customers are having to readjust their minds to what Saturn is, doing that again may hurt them worse. I do hope the NG Astra will have a lower entry price, and we already know there should be a sedan at least, in addition to the 3 & 5 doors. Personally, I think GM needs to dump some more marketing $$s on Saturn, focus on future product being quality and not too expensive, and stick to the plan. More/better Astra options + the Corsa should really help Saturn, as would a lower entry price point on the Astra.

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Saturn shouldn't be saved; it should be converted to Opel.

One of the major reasons why Saturn's revitalization effort has not been as successful as GM had planned or hoped is because the brand has no clearly defined identity. The division started life as a quirky, feel good division that offered a single "cheap and cheerful" compact model in three variations (sedan, coupe, and wagon). The brand became synonymous with inexpensive, plastic bodied small cars being peddled at dealerships that were supposed to coddle the customer with superior customer service and no haggle pricing techniques.

Now Saturn is supposed to be positioned between Pontiac and Buick with a lineup of supposedly upscale Euro inspired products based on GM's Opel/Vauxhall divisions. This transformation has not been successful for a variety of reasons. First, Saturn's newly implied position is totally out of line with its former market image. Given Saturn's humble beginnings, I think it is going to be nearly impossible for GM to convert the division into an outlet for premium Euro inspired products. Second, none of the marketing or advertising for the revitalized division has made it clear to the public what Saturn's new role is supposed to be. Third, most of the lineup lacks unique features or premium content to differentiate the products from similar vehicles that can be found at Chevrolet, Pontiac, or GMC. Finally, Saturn's limited dealer base makes it difficult for the division to make a sizeable impact on the auto market.

I thought Chevrolet was GM's affordable, value division? Why would GM need Saturn to cover the same part of the market? As far as affordable small cars, Chevrolet can competently handle this segment of the market. I think it would be beneficial for GM to apply some of Saturn's former customer service techniques to Chevrolet dealerships to give its affordable, volume division a warm and caring image.

I think GM should have an outlet in the U.S. to offer their premium Opel based products, but Saturn is not the appropriate brand to handle this task. I really don't think Saturn has a meaningful role to play in GM's brand hierarchy anymore. It has failed in its mission to lure import buyers and I don't think it can be moved upmarket to carry Opel products in the U.S. due to the brand's past public persona. I think Saturn should come to an end when the current model cycles of the Aura, Sky, Vue, Outlook, and Astra come to an end. I would hold off on the introduction of the Insignia in the U.S. until the next generation of the Astra also makes it to market. When these two products are ready to be introduced simultaneously to the U.S. market, I would convert the division name to Opel and sell the cars under that brand name. The Astra line should be expanded to include 3-door, 5-door, sedan, wagon, and "TwinTop" coupe variants. The Insignia line should be expanded to include sedan, wagon, and "TwinTop" coupe variants. As the next generation Corsa, Meriva, and Zafira make it to market, they should be added to Opel's lineup in the U.S. (I would also like to see a midsize SWB Epsilon MPV inserted above the Zafira). The Corsa line should include 3-door, 5-door, and "TwinTop" roadster (Tigra replacement) variants. The marketing/advertising should downplay the domestic angle and emphasize Opel's European roots. Since the "Opel" name doesn't carry any brand baggage in the U.S., GM should have the opportunity to properly mold the division's image to fit the products' premium import focused origins and mission.

To remedy the limited availability of the future U.S. Opel division, I would combine the division with Pontiac and GMC to create a midmarket premium dealer network. Buick would join Cadillac to form a luxury dealer network (hopefully, without Saab and Hummer).

The Opel/Pontiac/GMC lineup would look like this:

Opel:

* Corsa: FWD Subcompact 3-door/5-door/"TwinTop" roadster (Gamma)

* Astra: FWD Compact 3-door/5-door/sedan/wagon/"TwinTop" coupe (Delta)

* Insignia: FWD Midsize sedan/wagon/"TwinTop" coupe (SWB Epsilon)

* Meriva: FWD Subcompact MPV (Gamma)

* Zafira: FWD Compact MPV (Delta)

* Olympia(?): FWD Midsize MPV (SWB Epsilon)

Pontiac:

* Solstice: RWD roadster/2-seat coupe (NG on modified Alpha?)

* G2: RWD Subcompact 2+2 3-door/5-door (modified Alpha?)

* G4: RWD Compact sedan/coupe (Alpha)

* G6: RWD Midsize sedan/coupe (SWB SigZeta)

* G8: RWD Large sedan (LWB SigZeta)

GMC:

* Envoy: FWD/AWD Compact crossover/SUT (SWB Theta)

* Terrain: FWD/AWD Midsize crossover/SUT (LWB Theta)

* Acadia: FWD/AWD Large crossover/SUT (Lambda)

* Chevrolet would be the sole truck/SUV division. GMC would carry premium crossovers and SUTs. SUTs would be exclusive to GMC.

The Buick/Cadillac lineup would look like this:

Buick:

* Regal: FWD Compact sedan (SWB Epsilon)

* Velite: FWD Compact coupe-cabrio (SWB Epsilon)

* Invicta: FWD Midsize sedan (LWB Epsilon)

* Riviera: FWD Midsize coupe-cabrio (LWB Epsilon)

* LeSabre: FWD Large sedan (LWB Epsilon Plus)

* Rendezvous: FWD/AWD Compact crossover (SWB Theta)

* Centieme: FWD/AWD Midsize crossover (LWB Theta)

* Enclave: FWD/AWD Large crossover (Lambda)

Cadillac:

* RWD Compact sedan/coupe/wagon (Alpha)

* RWD Midsize sedan/coupe/wagon (SWB SigZeta)

* RWD Large sedan (LWB SigZeta)

* RWD Retractable hardtop roadster (modified Alpha? shared with Pontiac Solstice)

* XLR: RWD Flagship retractable hardtop roadster (Corvette C7 platform)

The only major glitch in the plan is what to do when a stand alone Saturn dealership is located within close proximity of a Pontiac/GMC dealership...

Edited by cire
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They are good cars. But buyers are unimpressed probably because they're priced too high for Saturn's image. Plus, the promotional efforts just don't seem to be resonating with anyone. Solution? Don't fight who you really are! -- Saturn as a value brand based on no-optioned, well-equipped GM B and C platforms combined with Saturn's customer service programs.

in truth, if you price out all the models, the higher optioned vues and auras are the only ones that one might consider pricey. the astras actually, once you start doing comparisons, are not all that far off. especially a fully loaded XR is not all that out of whack vs. the competition. most of the auras going out the door right now are 4 cylinder XE's that sticker closer to 20k than 23-25k. the outlook is fully competitive. the vue are the ones they have had to make adjustments on pricing for.

the market is down 30% and everyone is buying cheap iron. so its easy to default to say that saturn should go back to peddling sh1tboxes. i get that, since honda can only seem to move their low priced sh1tboxes right now. But the truth is that once you get someone into the saturn showroom, the product is pretty desirable and once people understand the pricing and incentives its not really out of whack vs other brands. saturns options are usually priced well.

saturn's biggest problem is they are selling essentially 4 of 5 models (brands) that are new names and have no recognition from the past. you cannot build equity in a model right away. this is why the astra for example coming over from europe right now is not a bad thing, even if sales are low. it replaced the ion, which is a huge credibility upgrade. now let that success breed for the first generation here....then the next astra comes out, build off that success.

if saturn's cars were so crappy, why would its owner ratings on edmunds for example, be 9.5 for the astra and the civic is 9.0 and the fit is only 9.2. the aura also has a higher rating the accord as well. the fusion and taurus also have notably higher ratings than the accord.

this is the infancy of saturn's transition to a full line dealer. the marketing is not there. and the market is way down, so of course right now the results are slow to come.

keep the saturn name, that is synonymous with a great customer experience. you can't afford to lose that by switching to 'opel'.

Edited by regfootball
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Your Opel idea is well-reasoned and "clean." If all the stars were aligned it might work.

The problem is that non-lux European brand cars don't do well here because they have to be priced too high to make any money for the maker (partially because of the unfavorable Dollar/Euro exchange). That's why Volkswagen is again looking at US production, right?

OK, so in order to make money GM would need to build these "Opels" stateside. Would "enthusiasts," the buyers most likely attracted to an Opel, go along with this ignoring any feelings that their "German" engineered Opel is just a Malibu built in Kansas City with a lighting bolt attached to the front? This seems like a risky bet with low return potential.

As is, PBG is another outlet for Chevrolets slightly tweaked. Adding Saturn would just complete the lineup at the bottom end.

I agree re: Buick. If GM was serious about competing with Lexus it would have coupled Buick with Cadillac.

Saturn shouldn't be saved; it should be converted to Opel.

One of the major reasons why Saturn's revitalization effort has not been as successful as GM had planned or hoped is because the brand has no clearly defined identity. The division started life as a quirky, feel good division that offered a single "cheap and cheerful" compact model in three variations (sedan, coupe, and wagon). The brand became synonymous with inexpensive, plastic bodied small cars being peddled at dealerships that were supposed to coddle the customer with superior customer service and no haggle pricing techniques.

Now Saturn is supposed to be positioned between Pontiac and Buick with a lineup of supposedly upscale Euro inspired products based on GM's Opel/Vauxhall divisions. This transformation has not been successful for a variety of reasons. First, Saturn's newly implied position is totally out of line with its former market image. Given Saturn's humble beginnings, I think it is going to be nearly impossible for GM to convert the division into an outlet for premium Euro inspired products. Second, none of the marketing or advertising for the revitalized division has made it clear to the public what Saturn's new role is supposed to be. Third, most of the lineup lacks unique features or premium content to differentiate the products from similar vehicles that can be found at Chevrolet, Pontiac, or GMC. Finally, Saturn's limited dealer base makes it difficult for the division to make a sizeable impact on the auto market.

I thought Chevrolet was GM's affordable, value division? Why would GM need Saturn to cover the same part of the market? As far as affordable small cars, Chevrolet can competently handle this segment of the market. I think it would be beneficial for GM to apply some of Saturn's former customer service techniques to Chevrolet dealerships to give its affordable, volume division a warm and caring image.

I think GM should have an outlet in the U.S. to offer their premium Opel based products, but Saturn is not the appropriate brand to handle this task. I really don't think Saturn has a meaningful role to play in GM's brand hierarchy anymore. It has failed in its mission to lure import buyers and I don't think it can be moved upmarket to carry Opel products in the U.S. due to the brand's past public persona. I think Saturn should come to an end when the current model cycles of the Aura, Sky, Vue, Outlook, and Astra come to an end. I would hold off on the introduction of the Insignia in the U.S. until the next generation of the Astra also makes it to market. When these two products are ready to be introduced simultaneously to the U.S. market, I would convert the division name to Opel and sell the cars under that brand name. The Astra line should be expanded to include 3-door, 5-door, sedan, wagon, and "TwinTop" coupe variants. The Insignia line should be expanded to include sedan, wagon, and "TwinTop" coupe variants. As the next generation Corsa, Meriva, and Zafira make it to market, they should be added to Opel's lineup in the U.S. (I would also like to see a midsize SWB Epsilon MPV inserted above the Zafira). The Corsa line should include 3-door, 5-door, and "TwinTop" roadster (Tigra replacement) variants. The marketing/advertising should downplay the domestic angle and emphasize Opel's European roots. Since the "Opel" name doesn't carry any brand baggage in the U.S., GM should have the opportunity to properly mold the division's image to fit the products' premium import focused origins and mission.

To remedy the limited availability of the future U.S. Opel division, I would combine the division with Pontiac and GMC to create a midmarket premium dealer network. Buick would join Cadillac to form a luxury dealer network (hopefully, without Saab and Hummer).

The Opel/Pontiac/GMC lineup would look like this:

Opel:

* Corsa: FWD Subcompact 3-door/5-door/"TwinTop" roadster (Gamma)

* Astra: FWD Compact 3-door/5-door/sedan/wagon/"TwinTop" coupe (Delta)

* Insignia: FWD Midsize sedan/wagon/"TwinTop" coupe (SWB Epsilon)

* Meriva: FWD Subcompact MPV (Gamma)

* Zafira: FWD Compact MPV (Delta)

* Olympia(?): FWD Midsize MPV (SWB Epsilon)

Pontiac:

* Solstice: RWD roadster/2-seat coupe (NG on modified Alpha?)

* G2: RWD Subcompact 2+2 3-door/5-door (modified Alpha?)

* G4: RWD Compact sedan/coupe (Alpha)

* G6: RWD Midsize sedan/coupe (SWB SigZeta)

* G8: RWD Large sedan (LWB SigZeta)

GMC:

* Envoy: FWD/AWD Compact crossover/SUT (SWB Theta)

* Terrain: FWD/AWD Midsize crossover/SUT (LWB Theta)

* Acadia: FWD/AWD Large crossover/SUT (Lambda)

* Chevrolet would be the sole truck/SUV division. GMC would carry premium crossovers and SUTs. SUTs would be exclusive to GMC.

The Buick/Cadillac lineup would look like this:

Buick:

* Regal: FWD Compact sedan (SWB Epsilon)

* Velite: FWD Compact coupe-cabrio (SWB Epsilon)

* Invicta: FWD Midsize sedan (LWB Epsilon)

* Riviera: FWD Midsize coupe-cabrio (LWB Epsilon)

* LeSabre: FWD Large sedan (LWB Epsilon Plus)

* Rendezvous: FWD/AWD Compact crossover (SWB Theta)

* Centieme: FWD/AWD Midsize crossover (LWB Theta)

* Enclave: FWD/AWD Large crossover (Lambda)

Cadillac:

* RWD Compact sedan/coupe/wagon (Alpha)

* RWD Midsize sedan/coupe/wagon (SWB SigZeta)

* RWD Large sedan (LWB SigZeta)

* RWD Retractable hardtop roadster (modified Alpha? shared with Pontiac Solstice)

* XLR: RWD Flagship retractable hardtop roadster (Corvette C7 platform)

The only major glitch in the plan is what to do when a stand alone Saturn dealership is located within close proximity of a Pontiac/GMC dealership...

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Right, the marketing isn't there. How much money is required to make buyers understand Saturn's newfound goodness? How long would it take? Why isn't GM spending the money? After this, how many sales can be reasonably expected given the small dealer channel?

I think the answers are: a ton, too long, doesn't have it, not many more than it has now.

Merging with PBG, you suddenly have several thousand more dealers peddling 2 badly-needed cars they didn't have before under a brand name everyone "gets." As an added benefit, Malibu/G6, Enclave/Acadia/Traverse, Equinox/Terrain, and Solstice all get a little extra breathing room even if they don't pick up every single customer who would have gone to Aura/Outlook/Vue/Sky.

this is the infancy of saturn's transition to a full line dealer. the marketing is not there. and the market is way down, so of course right now the results are slow to come.
Edited by buyacargetacheck
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how many sales can be reasonably expected given the small dealer channel?

...not many more than it has now.

Then why (IIRC) is the sales record for Saturn from 1994 or 1995? Can someone find the sales numbers for each year? Maybe number of dealerships, too, since that has probably changed some (not sure if there would be more or less now).

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Get back to basics: a good car at a good price emphasizing high customer satisfaction and fuel-economy.

Tactics: Add Saturn to PBG's channeling effort. Phase-out current Saturn lineup and replace with sedan and wagon versions of the new Cruze. Move the upcoming Pontiac G3 to Saturn lineup. All Saturns come one way, no options like Scion but without the sophomoric accessorizing. This emphasizes the value part. Underprice to raise volume.

Why? Saturn's current positioning is a hard sale given the lack of promotion. This new plan plays to Saturn's natural strength without requiring a change in buyer perception. It also gives PBG dealers fuel-efficient cars to sell without diluting the images of its brands. This also allows Saturn to get focused while not requiring a separate dealer channel that cannot be sustained.

Downside: How to convince dealers to merge...

New PBGS:

Saturn "Aveo"

Saturn "Cruze"

Pontiac G5 coupe

Pontiac Vibe

Pontiac G6

Pontiac Solstice

Pontiac G8

Buick LaCrosse

Buick Enclave

GMC Terrain

GMC Canyon

GMC Acadia

GMC Yukon

GMC Sierra

GMC Savana

You can find this plan on www.notinthislifetime.com! :rotflmao:

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Right. Saturn did really well in 1994 and 1995 with the same or fewer number of dealers it has now.

The reason those numbers are not realistic now for a similar 1 or 2 car lineup is that the Koreans are much more successful now on the low-end than they were then. They've made great strides in quality. Also, Saturn had a unique platform with the advertising to back it up. At best, now, they'd have to sell cars that would end up looking very similar to the Cruze and Aveo.

Then why (IIRC) is the sales record for Saturn from 1994 or 1995? Can someone find the sales numbers for each year? Maybe number of dealerships, too, since that has probably changed some (not sure if there would be more or less now).
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This idea makes more sense than what GM is doing now. All of GM's efforts to move its brands upscale have failed. I would probably give Saturn a small crossover based on the Delta platform, though. Same roominess as the Vue, but much lighter.

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Your Opel idea is well-reasoned and "clean." If all the stars were aligned it might work.

The problem is that non-lux European brand cars don't do well here because they have to be priced too high to make any money for the maker (partially because of the unfavorable Dollar/Euro exchange). That's why Volkswagen is again looking at US production, right?

OK, so in order to make money GM would need to build these "Opels" stateside. Would "enthusiasts," the buyers most likely attracted to an Opel, go along with this ignoring any feelings that their "German" engineered Opel is just a Malibu built in Kansas City with a lighting bolt attached to the front? This seems like a risky bet with low return potential.

As is, PBG is another outlet for Chevrolets slightly tweaked. Adding Saturn would just complete the lineup at the bottom end.

I agree re: Buick. If GM was serious about competing with Lexus it would have coupled Buick with Cadillac.

I do agree that importing the products from Europe would not be a financially sound decision.

I don't totally agree with the location of assembly argument that you presented. I think the execution/overall feel of the product and the brand's country of origin are far more important in the perception and marketing of the brand/products than the location of assembly. The models that Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, and Subaru assemble in North America are still considered Japanese products by the general public although they are not assembled in Japan. The models that BMW and Volkswagen build in North America are still considered German products. If GM would build Opel models in North America with their essential Euro character and feel intact, I think they could still be marketed as Euro sourced premium products. The execution of the product and the marketing/advertising spin would be the ultimate deciding factors in whether the Opel experiment would be successful in the U.S.

I don't think GM can pull off the same affect with the "Saturn" name because of the brand's past. It started life as a maker of inexpensive small cars and was marketed as an American import fighting division (which was appropriate because that was exactly what the division was intended to do). The division had a sort of cult following and even sponsored homecoming events at the Spring Hill, Tennessee plant that produced the little cars. I don't think GM can successfully transform Saturn into a captive Euro import brand after giving it such a strong opposing initial brand image. If GM can properly execute the next generation of Opel products and properly market the Opel brand image in the U.S., I think GM would have a good chance of creating the captive import division with Opel that they misguidedly attempted to do with Saturn. The only way I could see GM salvaging Saturn at this point is make them a Chevrolet sub-brand (like Geo previously was or Scion is to Toyota) to market production versions of the mini-cars based on the Beat, Groove, and Trax (I actually think this would be a waste of marketing dollars since Chevrolet is more than competent to handle these products without the need for a sub-brand). If GM did this they would create another problem of how to handle the stand alone Saturn dealerships who would be understandably angered by this move.

As far as the products, I was under the impression that the Insignia was the first product to represent Opel's intention of moving upmarket. If that is the case and the Insignia is properly executed to be a premium product, then I don't think it will be viewed as just a Malibu with a lightning bolt badge (it certainly doesn't look like one). I think the same could be said of the current Corsa. I think if it was built and sold in the U.S. to be nearly identical to the Euro version, I doubt anyone would perceive it to be an Aveo with Opel badging. All the reviews I have read of the Astra so far make me believe that no one would confuse it with the Cobalt. Execution and marketing go a long way to shaping perception and reputation.

I seriously doubt GM would seriously consider any of this, so it's just a pipe dream. It's nice to look at or consider what could have been...

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I find it funny that people think that Saturn should already be "moved upscale" by now. It's been... two years since the new products first started coming out? If GM could move a brand upscale in less than two years, it would have no trouble dominating the majority of the market, me thinks.

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