William Maley

Opel/Vauxhall News: Germany Has Doubts On Opel's Emission Software

13 posts in this topic

William Maley    391

It seems a week can't go by without another automaker being embroiled in either a fuel economy or emission mess. This week, the German Government has requested Opel to provide more information on a piece of software that turns off the emission controls in the Zafira. The issue at hand is whether or not this software violates regulations.

 

"Shut-off devices are fundamentally illegal, unless it is truly necessary to safeguard the engine," said Alexander Dobrindt, Germany's transport minister after a meeting with Opel to discuss this issue.

 

"Therefore it's clear that in this situation, we have our doubts."

 

This meeting comes after a joint investigation between Spiegel magazine, ARD television's Monitor program and the Deutsche Umwelthilfe environmentalist group. The investigation found software used in the Insignia and Zafira that would turn off emission controls under various conditions such as going above 90 mph. Opel went on the defensive, saying the conclusion was wrong.

 

"We at Opel don't have any illegal software," said Opel president Karl-Thomas Neumann in a statement on Tuesday.

 

Opel explained they do have software that can turn off the emission controls at high speeds, but this was only done to protect the engine. The automaker says this software is legal.

 

But the committee who is looking into this issue has their doubts.

 

"The investigating committee has doubts about whether this practice is completely justified by the protection of the engine," said Dobrindt.

 

Opel has promised to cooperate with the investigation. The committee gave the automaker 14 days to provide technical information on the software.

 

Dobrindt said he would ask other automakers if they use something similar to Opel's software.

 

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required), Reuters



Click here to view the article

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oldshurst442    984

One could justify the German Government's skepticism toward's this....

VW  killed it just about for everybody  when diesel and software are mentioned together....

 

Its up to Opel/GM to provide answers...if what Opel president Karl-Thomas Neumann said is true: "We at Opel don't have any illegal software"....then Opel/GM, himself and maybe others like computer programmers and engineers  have nothing to worry about...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dfelt    1,771

So VW killed the goose for everyone at low speeds and the fact that normal driving disabled emissions control.

 

Yet here you have a vehicle that driven below 90 the emissions work as designed which is where I bet the bulk of drivers drive anyway and yet above 90 it turns off the emissions to protect the engine. This usually means the engine runs richer to ensure enough fuel, enough oil protection, etc. If Germany allows for this feature then Opel should be fine and just needs to show their engineering manner to the body.

 

Sadly, I suspect every auto maker is going to come under the microscope due to VW and Mitsubishi betrayal to the customer and the environment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Drew Dowdell    4,988

Okay... so some clarity is in order.

 

Nearly all cars will turn off and on their emissions controls a various stages of driving... You don't always need EGR to be turned on at all times, and you don't always need air injection (when equipped) to be turned on at all time.

 

If the emissions control systems in these two cars (they don't mention the engine, but the Zafra has the 1.4T and that's available in the Insignia as well) are shutting down over 90mph, it's probably because they don't need to be running with the engine operating at that speed.  

 

I can tell you from experience that 65mph in my Encore 1.4T means about 2,500rpm, and while I've never had it to 90mph, I assume the engine would be turning well over 3,000 rpm just to maintain such a speed.  The Zafara and Insignia are both heavier vehicles, so the engine would be working even harder at that 3,000+ RPM just to keep them there.

 

Very very few cars operate at that RPM for extended periods of time, so I can certainly believe GM's statement that the engine would need to be protected. However, that's also the range where emissions correction is less needed because the fuel is burning in the most efficient manner and the catalyst would be glowing hot.

 

 

But sheesh... 90mph in an Insigna Wagon 1.4T?  That's really gotta be pushing the limits on that little motor. 

 

Edit: They do share some diesel engines too... so if could be one or both of them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oldshurst442    984

Yeah Drew, I thought about the same thing as you.

Not in so much detail, but 90 mph stuck to my thought process.

I kinda figured....who drives at 90 mph legally anyway and anyhow?

And at 90 mph, I assume that fuel consumption and air pollution is probably very high for any engine as compared to driving...55 mph.(The original fuel saving CAFE speed limit in the USA.)

I also realized that a Zafira is a mini-mini-van....so I dont think it be doing 90 mph on the autobahn either during normal usage....

 

But...it is what it is and like I said, if Opel's president statement is true, then he has nothing to worry about.

I imagine its become a formality for the German Government to question sentences that contain diesel and computer software "shutting off" stuff.

 

Anyway...let Sammy Hagar soothe us from that horrid time period when CAFE thought they were doing good.

And....FERRARI Flat 12!!!

Edited by oldshurst442

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oldshurst442    984

wooooooooooo....the autobahn... :o

 

 

Just kidding.

A little levity never hurt anyone.

But...would an Opel Zafira's owner be doing 90 mph on the autobahn...

 

Before you answer that question...because the way you responded with this quote:
 

90mph on the AutoBahn is pretty standard.

 

 

 

Short. Direct. To the point.

With a confidence in the tone of your typing, because I could sense your experience with Germany through the internet airwaves...

I get the feeling that yes....yes...an Opel Zafira owner as a matter of fact WILL drive his mini-mini-van 90 mph on the autobahn...

 

To which I have this to say...these Germans must be crazy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smk4565    321

Seems like all these car makers cheat.  

 

Autobahn does have high speed.  The crap cars are probably doing 90 while at high rpm, the BMWs and Mercedes probably doing 120.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Drew Dowdell    4,988

It doesn't matter if 90mph is normal for a Zafara driver, just the fact that it can do it is enough. An insignia driver, certainly can be doing 90 regularly.

I've driven on the autobahn a number of times. In the free zones with no speed limit, anything under 80 and you'll get run over.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smk4565    321

It doesn't matter if 90mph is normal for a Zafara driver, just the fact that it can do it is enough. An insignia driver, certainly can be doing 90 regularly.

I've driven on the autobahn a number of times. In the free zones with no speed limit, anything under 80 and you'll get run over.

That sounds like my kind of highway.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oldshurst442    984

 

It doesn't matter if 90mph is normal for a Zafara driver, just the fact that it can do it is enough. An insignia driver, certainly can be doing 90 regularly.

I've driven on the autobahn a number of times. In the free zones with no speed limit, anything under 80 and you'll get run over.

That sounds like my kind of highway.  

 

I got it now....

The fact that the car is capable of achieving 90 mph regularly is of concern to the German Government..yet I also understood what you previously said about the necessity for the shutdowns for the engine to be protected....

 

 

SMK...that is a tad different than what VW has done...

 

So...as it stands, its only VW and Audi with a smidgen of Porsche (VAG--short for vaginas) that has cheated...

 

As for the "my kind of highway" statement...

It would have been my kind of highway too...

Unfortunately where I come from, drivers are too self centered for those kinds of speeds with no end in sight as our Quebec society does not teach proper driving ethics and proper driving skills and our government lets infrastructure  deteriorate  before repairs are done....and the politicians dont have the hindsight to engineer the logistics and the technology to sustain the safety and the upkeep for the entire system to succeed which includes on ramps, off ramps to joining other highway systems WITH a speed limit, rain drainage, snow removal, banked corners for higher speed sustainment, fast accident removal and ambulance accessibility and traffic flow redirection and direct/live communication etc...  

If any one of those things are not executed with perfection, major daily fatalities will happen.

The Germans may be known for over engineering things, but they are also known for being meticulous in their engineering for the little details...and the autobahn highway system works so well in Germany because of all the little but extremely necessary little details involved.

 

Im sorry for the rant.

I felt I needed to clarify  the  LADDY FREAKIN DA  youtube link I did....even though it was a joke I wanted to make sure that you guys know that I have the utmost respect for the German engineers (civil and traffic engineers and others) and the autobahn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Drew Dowdell    4,988

Happen to have a friend from Germany staying with me this week, so in spite of my own experience on the Autobahn, I deferred to him... here's what he said:

 

Me: What do you think is typical speeds on the free zones of the Autobahn?

Him: As fast as you want to go....

Me: Well, the German government is mad at Opel for cars where the emissions system shuts off over 145 kph.... do you think people typically drive over that speed?

Him: I'd drive that speed even if the speed limit is 120kph. 

 

His car is a 2005 VW Golf Plus

volkswagen-golf-plus-1.9-tdi-trendline-0

 

 

Gives some perspective as to what the people with even more powerful cars will do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dfelt    1,771

very interesting Drew, Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Similar Content

    • By William Maley
      Opel and Vauxhall are currently in the process of working on a new business plan for their new owner, PSA Group. Already, it seems one project has been suspended. 
      Auto Express has learned from sources that plans for a flagship SUV have been shelved for the time being. Possibly named Monza, the model would use the Insignia platform and be around the size of a Ford Edge. It seems PSA Group is putting a freeze on various projects that are related in some form to Opel/Vauxhall's former owner, General Motors. Whether or not the Monza is canned or moved to a platform from PSA Group remains to be seen. One thing is clear, changes are already happening.
      Source: Auto Express

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      Opel and Vauxhall are currently in the process of working on a new business plan for their new owner, PSA Group. Already, it seems one project has been suspended. 
      Auto Express has learned from sources that plans for a flagship SUV have been shelved for the time being. Possibly named Monza, the model would use the Insignia platform and be around the size of a Ford Edge. It seems PSA Group is putting a freeze on various projects that are related in some form to Opel/Vauxhall's former owner, General Motors. Whether or not the Monza is canned or moved to a platform from PSA Group remains to be seen. One thing is clear, changes are already happening.
      Source: Auto Express
    • By William Maley
      General Motors and PSA Group completed the sale of Opel/Vauxhall yesterday, effectively ending the era of GM’s European division.
       “It is a historic day. We are proud to join Groupe PSA and are now opening a new chapter in our history after 88 years with General Motors. We will continue our path of making technology `made in Germany´ available to everyone. The combination of our strengths will enable us to turn Opel and Vauxhall into a profitable and self-funded business. We have set ourselves the clear target of returning to profitability by 2020,” said Opel Automobile GmbH CEO Michael Lohscheller. 
      As part of the sale, PSA Group paid 1.53 billion for the Opel and Vauxhall brands and $1.06 billion for the European arm of GM Financial. GM is still on the hook for existing pension obligations for Opel - estimated to be around $3.54 billion.
      The final part of the sale also marks some key changes of Opel and Vauxhall's leadership. Four new people -  Christian Müller, Rémi Girardon, Philippe de Rovira, and Michelle Wen - will be joining the company's management.
      What happens next? The new management team will begin working on a new plan for the future of the two brands. The ultimate goal is to have Opel and Vauxhall return to profitability by 2020.
      Source: Reuters, Opel
      Press Release is on Page 2


      Birth of a European Champion: Opel and Vauxhall join Groupe PSA
      Opel and Vauxhall to be operated as true iconic German and British brands New performance plan to be presented in 100 days: to generate a positive operational free cash flow by 2020 as well as an operating margin of 2% by 2020 and 6% by 2026 Four new team members to join the leadership team Rüsselsheim.  The sale of Opel Automobile GmbH with its brands Opel and Vauxhall by General Motors to Groupe PSA has been finalized now. “It is a historic day,” said Opel Automobile GmbH CEO Michael Lohscheller. “We are proud to join Groupe PSA and are now opening a new chapter in our history after 88 years with General Motors. We will continue our path of making technology `made in Germany´ available to everyone. The combination of our strengths will enable us to turn Opel and Vauxhall into a profitable and self-funded business. We have set ourselves the clear target of returning to profitability by 2020.”
      “We are witnessing the birth of a true European champion today,” emphasized PSA Chairman of the board Carlos Tavares. “We will assist Opel and Vauxhall’s return to profitability and aim to set new industry benchmarks together. We will unleash the power of these iconic brands and the huge potential of its existing talents. Opel will remain German, Vauxhall will remain British. They are the perfect fit to our existing portfolio of French brands Peugeot, Citroën and DS Automobiles.” The market share of the enlarged Groupe PSA is now around 17 percent in Europe, making it the continent’s second largest carmaker with first or second place in main markets.
      As already assured when the contract was signed in March, all employee codetermination rights will remain unchanged.
      The Opel/Vauxhall management team will work on a plan for the future in the next 100 days. “We are eager to build the plan with PSA’s support and obviously together with our partners from the Works Council and the unions,” said Opel CEO Lohscheller. Synergies within the Groupe PSA, for example in purchasing and development, are set to play a major part. The combined entity will unlock substantial economies of scale and synergies in purchasing, manufacturing and R&D estimated at €1.7 Bn at run rate. The goal is to generate a positive operational free cash flow by 2020 as well as an operating margin of two percent by 2020 and six percent by 2026.
      Today’s start of a new era is accompanied by some important leadership changes. “I am happy to announce that four new members will join my management team,” said CEO Lohscheller:
      Christian Müller, previously Vice President Global Propulsion Systems – Europe and with Opel since 1996, will succeed William F. Bertagni as Vice President Engineering. He will integrate engineering and powertrain in one department. Rémi Girardon, previously Senior Vice President Group Industrial Strategy at Groupe PSA, will succeed Philip R. Kienle as Vice President Manufacturing. Philippe de Rovira, previously Group Controller at Groupe PSA, will become the new CFO of Opel, following Michael Lohscheller. Michelle Wen, Group Supply Chain Management Network Director at Vodafone Procurement, will be joining the Opel leadership team effective September 1 replacing Katherine Worthen currently Vice President Purchasing and Supply Chain. All other moves are with immediate effect. “We thank Katherine Worthen, William F. Bertagni and Philip Kienle for all their contributions to Opel/Vauxhall and wish them all the best for the next chapter of their careers within General Motors,” said Opel CEO Lohscheller. “And we cordially welcome Michelle Wen from Vodafone as well as Remi Girardon and Philippe de Rovira from Groupe PSA. I am looking forward to working with these new team members who will reinforce the potential of our leadership team.”
      Going forward, Michael Lohscheller is planning with a much leaner management structure, including the number of direct reports. “We are reducing complexity and increasing speed,” said Lohscheller. “I am looking forward to shaping the next chapter of Opel/Vauxhall with the new management team and leading our company into a successful future. The owners and the employees will not be the only ones to benefit from ever stronger Opel and Vauxhall brands – our customers will do so too.”
      PSA and Opel/Vauxhall have been working together since 2012. The cooperation so far includes four vehicles from Opel. The first model, the Opel Crossland X, has been available at dealerships since the end of June. The Opel Grandland X SUV in the next higher segment follows in the fall. The successor of the Opel Combo light commercial vehicle will come onto the market next year and as of 2019 the next generation of the best-selling Opel Corsa will be launched.
      Opel/Vauxhall and Groupe PSA will continue to work with General Motors in the future. In addition to development in the area of electric propulsion, Opel plants will continue to produce vehicles for the GM brands Buick and Holden.
      In parallel, the acquisition of GM Financial's European operations is under way, subject to validation by the different regulatory authorities’ review and is scheduled for the second half of 2017.

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      General Motors and PSA Group completed the sale of Opel/Vauxhall yesterday, effectively ending the era of GM’s European division.
       “It is a historic day. We are proud to join Groupe PSA and are now opening a new chapter in our history after 88 years with General Motors. We will continue our path of making technology `made in Germany´ available to everyone. The combination of our strengths will enable us to turn Opel and Vauxhall into a profitable and self-funded business. We have set ourselves the clear target of returning to profitability by 2020,” said Opel Automobile GmbH CEO Michael Lohscheller. 
      As part of the sale, PSA Group paid 1.53 billion for the Opel and Vauxhall brands and $1.06 billion for the European arm of GM Financial. GM is still on the hook for existing pension obligations for Opel - estimated to be around $3.54 billion.
      The final part of the sale also marks some key changes of Opel and Vauxhall's leadership. Four new people -  Christian Müller, Rémi Girardon, Philippe de Rovira, and Michelle Wen - will be joining the company's management.
      What happens next? The new management team will begin working on a new plan for the future of the two brands. The ultimate goal is to have Opel and Vauxhall return to profitability by 2020.
      Source: Reuters, Opel
      Press Release is on Page 2


      Birth of a European Champion: Opel and Vauxhall join Groupe PSA
      Opel and Vauxhall to be operated as true iconic German and British brands New performance plan to be presented in 100 days: to generate a positive operational free cash flow by 2020 as well as an operating margin of 2% by 2020 and 6% by 2026 Four new team members to join the leadership team Rüsselsheim.  The sale of Opel Automobile GmbH with its brands Opel and Vauxhall by General Motors to Groupe PSA has been finalized now. “It is a historic day,” said Opel Automobile GmbH CEO Michael Lohscheller. “We are proud to join Groupe PSA and are now opening a new chapter in our history after 88 years with General Motors. We will continue our path of making technology `made in Germany´ available to everyone. The combination of our strengths will enable us to turn Opel and Vauxhall into a profitable and self-funded business. We have set ourselves the clear target of returning to profitability by 2020.”
      “We are witnessing the birth of a true European champion today,” emphasized PSA Chairman of the board Carlos Tavares. “We will assist Opel and Vauxhall’s return to profitability and aim to set new industry benchmarks together. We will unleash the power of these iconic brands and the huge potential of its existing talents. Opel will remain German, Vauxhall will remain British. They are the perfect fit to our existing portfolio of French brands Peugeot, Citroën and DS Automobiles.” The market share of the enlarged Groupe PSA is now around 17 percent in Europe, making it the continent’s second largest carmaker with first or second place in main markets.
      As already assured when the contract was signed in March, all employee codetermination rights will remain unchanged.
      The Opel/Vauxhall management team will work on a plan for the future in the next 100 days. “We are eager to build the plan with PSA’s support and obviously together with our partners from the Works Council and the unions,” said Opel CEO Lohscheller. Synergies within the Groupe PSA, for example in purchasing and development, are set to play a major part. The combined entity will unlock substantial economies of scale and synergies in purchasing, manufacturing and R&D estimated at €1.7 Bn at run rate. The goal is to generate a positive operational free cash flow by 2020 as well as an operating margin of two percent by 2020 and six percent by 2026.
      Today’s start of a new era is accompanied by some important leadership changes. “I am happy to announce that four new members will join my management team,” said CEO Lohscheller:
      Christian Müller, previously Vice President Global Propulsion Systems – Europe and with Opel since 1996, will succeed William F. Bertagni as Vice President Engineering. He will integrate engineering and powertrain in one department. Rémi Girardon, previously Senior Vice President Group Industrial Strategy at Groupe PSA, will succeed Philip R. Kienle as Vice President Manufacturing. Philippe de Rovira, previously Group Controller at Groupe PSA, will become the new CFO of Opel, following Michael Lohscheller. Michelle Wen, Group Supply Chain Management Network Director at Vodafone Procurement, will be joining the Opel leadership team effective September 1 replacing Katherine Worthen currently Vice President Purchasing and Supply Chain. All other moves are with immediate effect. “We thank Katherine Worthen, William F. Bertagni and Philip Kienle for all their contributions to Opel/Vauxhall and wish them all the best for the next chapter of their careers within General Motors,” said Opel CEO Lohscheller. “And we cordially welcome Michelle Wen from Vodafone as well as Remi Girardon and Philippe de Rovira from Groupe PSA. I am looking forward to working with these new team members who will reinforce the potential of our leadership team.”
      Going forward, Michael Lohscheller is planning with a much leaner management structure, including the number of direct reports. “We are reducing complexity and increasing speed,” said Lohscheller. “I am looking forward to shaping the next chapter of Opel/Vauxhall with the new management team and leading our company into a successful future. The owners and the employees will not be the only ones to benefit from ever stronger Opel and Vauxhall brands – our customers will do so too.”
      PSA and Opel/Vauxhall have been working together since 2012. The cooperation so far includes four vehicles from Opel. The first model, the Opel Crossland X, has been available at dealerships since the end of June. The Opel Grandland X SUV in the next higher segment follows in the fall. The successor of the Opel Combo light commercial vehicle will come onto the market next year and as of 2019 the next generation of the best-selling Opel Corsa will be launched.
      Opel/Vauxhall and Groupe PSA will continue to work with General Motors in the future. In addition to development in the area of electric propulsion, Opel plants will continue to produce vehicles for the GM brands Buick and Holden.
      In parallel, the acquisition of GM Financial's European operations is under way, subject to validation by the different regulatory authorities’ review and is scheduled for the second half of 2017.
    • By William Maley
      Volvo stunned the world last Wednesday when they announced beginning in 2019, they would begin to phase out gas only vehicles and replacing them with hybrid and electric models. The company claims this strategy heralds "a new chapter in automotive history". This move is an about-face for the Swedish automaker. Previously, the company said electric vehicles didn't make a great business case. 
      But there is more to this decision than meets the eye. Automotive News reports that a key reason for Volvo's electrification plans comes down to the increasing regulation on carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions in three key markets; Europe, China, and U.S. Tim Urquhart, principal analyst at IHS Markit tells AN that Volvo would struggle to meet the tougher targets on their larger vehicle without some sort of electrification.
      "They've looked at the targets, and thought, we need to take serious action."
      Another reason comes in part from the fallout of the Volkswagen diesel emission scandal. Automakers in Europe were using diesel engines as they produced 15 to 20 percent less CO2 emissions. But the backlash against diesel after the scandal has caused buyers to look elsewhere. In Germany for example, sales of diesel vehicles dropped to 39 percent in June - this figure was almost 50 percent the same time last year.
      "Diesel was their main weapon of choice to hit these regulations. Now they have to come up with a plan B," said Matthias Schmidt, automotive market analyst for AID.
      According to data from AID, 83 percent Volvo's 2016 sales in Europe were comprised of diesels. This is high when compared to BMW (73 percent), Mercedes-Benz (73 percent), and Audi (68 percent). Only Land Rover (96 percent) and Jaguar (84 percent) were higher.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

      View full article
  • My Clubs

  • Who's Online (See full list)