Jump to content
  • Greetings Guest!

    CheersandGears.com was founded in 2001 and is one of the oldest continuously operating automotive forums out there.  Come see why we have users who visit nearly every day for the past 16+ years. Signup is fast and free, or you can opt for a premium subscription to view the site ad-free.

Recommended Posts

G. David Felt
Staff Writer Alternative Energy - www.CheersandGears.com

 

Electric Axles and the 4WD Ford F150 EV!

 

post-12-0-02609500-1464892305_thumb.jpg

 

Researching for conversion of my 1994 GMC SLE Suburban to electric made me think about 4WD as it is currently just a 2WD rig. As I started to search I found many options for taking certain electric motors and connecting them to the transmission and using what is there already on AWD/4WD auto's for moving the vehicle. I got to thinking much like Tesla, what about an Axle Electric motor solution and started to search to see what was out there and was very surprised to find many interesting home grown and some commercial options.

 

EV Axel BING Search

 

This led me to find a company in China called YIWO who does car to HD Truck electric axles for OEMs to custom conversions.

 

YIWO Alibaba web page

 

post-12-0-54266800-1464891715_thumb.jpg

 

This search then led me to the YIWO company home page also hosted by Alibaba where one can find an amazing variety of axles for use in traditional petro auto's to plug-in hybrids to pure EVs.
 
 
While doing this search I found that Alibaba has an amazing amount of EV parts on their Amazon like web site.
 
 
With this search I then came across an interesting write up from 2011 about in wheel motors allowing for a simple 4WD approach to auto's while not affecting the driving characteristics. This brought me to Protean Electric which was founded in 2009 in Troy Michigan. They now have an office in UK and an office with production in China.
 
 
Protean Electric took a totally different approach to EV auto's They started with adding the motors with regenerative braking at the wheel.
 
post-12-0-23127000-1464891765_thumb.jpg
 
This allowed them to then make 8 powerful mini motors working together to improve HP and Torque along with braking to have a far more efficient package.
 
post-12-0-11112700-1464891784_thumb.png
 
This design allowed them to take a 2009 Ford F150 Pickup and dump the existing powertrain, including driveline, heavy axle and create an 4WD Pickup without having to touch the existing handling characteristics by putting the battery pack in the exact center of the auto to keep the truck hauling and handling just like Ford Engineered it to be.
 
post-12-0-21152100-1464891766_thumb.jpg
post-12-0-88210800-1464891766_thumb.jpg
post-12-0-34203300-1464891778_thumb.jpg
 
As you can see the battery pack from the rear axle picture, the last picture posted above.
 
What about the interior you ask? Easy, Protean Electric changed out the dash for a digital display that they also make and added to the center console a 3 button shifter that covers Drive, Neutral and Reverse plus as you can see in the picture below, a big red kill switch button that probably could be incorporated better into the dash.
 
post-12-0-88693900-1464891780_thumb.jpg
 
So what about Horsepower and Torque? This is where is gets really exciting as this Ford F150 with the 4WD in Wheel motors produces the following:
 
2,300 lbs feet of combined torque from a dead stop
448 HP from the combined 4 motors
 
Now the great part is you can dial down the torque and HP so you can lengthen the life of the battery pack. According to P.E. they have stated that most implementations of this solution done at 578 pound feet of Peak torque, 355 pound feet of continuous torque and horsepower of 320 for the 4 motors combined which equals out to 80 HP per motor, 88.75 pound feet of continuous torque per motor with a peak torque of 144.5 per motor per the companies interview with pickuptrucks.com.
 
post-12-0-34345600-1464891763_thumb.jpg
 
Protean Electric has recently done for Mercedes-Benz a Brabus 4WD EV station wagon.
 
post-12-0-18368300-1464891746_thumb.png
post-12-0-51616500-1464891747_thumb.jpg
 
Brabus 4WD powertrain.
 
post-12-0-27444800-1464891764_thumb.jpg
 
What this tends to impress on me is that the future for electric auto's is bright and as battery technology gets better and better, we are moving to a silent world of autos that will push you back into your seat and have you hanging on to an amazing gut thrilling ride.
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Protean Electric has a number of white papers covering conversions, hybrids, etc.  Some very interesting concepts and info.

 

Protean Electric White Papers

 

Their Myth and Realities paper is very insightful as well as many of their papers. Yes I realize this is also marketing as they are trying to get people to buy their products. I also see plenty of potential for converting older auto's, reducing weight and allowing for many new auto's to push the boundaries of what an auto can be.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, that's really awesome.

 

What kind of range could be expected with something like that F150? I assume it could be all over the place depending on how it is tuned at the moment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, that's really awesome.

 

What kind of range could be expected with something like that F150? I assume it could be all over the place depending on how it is tuned at the moment. 

Depending on the size of the battery pack and weight you want to add to the auto, from 100 miles to 400 miles. The newer Lio cells should really help out with the range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more I think about this, the more excited I have gotten to the point I have reached out to Protean Electric to get more details as I can see my Suburban being converted to this and having a monstrous space between the 4 wheels for a large Lio battery pack that would give me a very large range I suspect.

 

Imagen converting your auto to become AWD from 2WD. Having a 4-500 mile range and being silent. :metal:

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't this how the Lexus RX Hybrid works?

Yes, Lexus uses electric motors connected to the axel. I could not find the info on any US or Japan web site, but the Lexus of UK has a ton of great pictures and a detailed overview on how the Lexus Hybrid system works.

 

http://blog.lexus.co.uk/how-does-lexus-hybrid-drive-work/

 

Also found this on a dealers web site here.

 

http://mcgrathlexusdealers.com/lexus-hybrid-drive-how-does-it-work/

 

Pretty interesting to see the images from the UK site on the Lexus hybrid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 2 Guests (See full list)



  • Similar Content

    • By William Maley
      Like many countries, China offers various incentives to spur the sales of electric vehicles. But a report from Bloomberg says the Chinese government is considering reducing various subsidies beginning next year. 
      According to sources, the government is considering cutting the average incentive by more than a third from where they currently stand. Also up for consideration is incentives being eligible on models that can travel at least 200 kilometers (about 125 miles) on a single charge. Why? The government wants automakers to keep innovating by making EVs cheaper and go much further on a charge.
      “China is switching away from carrots. The government wants to ensure automakers will launch models that would be appealing to consumers hence setting subsidies contingent on minimum driving range requirements,” said Ali Izadi-Najafabadi, an analyst at Bloomberg NEF.
      In 2017, the Chinese government spent 6.64 billion yuan (about a billion dollars) on various subsidies for electric vehicles. But this year saw the government begin to cut various incentives. For example, cars that have a driving range of less than 300 kilometers (about 186 miles) saw their incentives reduced. 
      “Government policy has a huge impact over the new-energy vehicle sector and every adjustment made on the policy front over the next two years will result in tremendous changes in the industry,” Li Yixiu, sales chief for Beijing Electric Vehicle Company earlier this month.
      "We believe there isn’t a chance for carmakers to raise prices to make up for the reduction of government fundings. Instead, we have to come up with competitive new products and services to respond.”
      Source: Bloomberg

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      Like many countries, China offers various incentives to spur the sales of electric vehicles. But a report from Bloomberg says the Chinese government is considering reducing various subsidies beginning next year. 
      According to sources, the government is considering cutting the average incentive by more than a third from where they currently stand. Also up for consideration is incentives being eligible on models that can travel at least 200 kilometers (about 125 miles) on a single charge. Why? The government wants automakers to keep innovating by making EVs cheaper and go much further on a charge.
      “China is switching away from carrots. The government wants to ensure automakers will launch models that would be appealing to consumers hence setting subsidies contingent on minimum driving range requirements,” said Ali Izadi-Najafabadi, an analyst at Bloomberg NEF.
      In 2017, the Chinese government spent 6.64 billion yuan (about a billion dollars) on various subsidies for electric vehicles. But this year saw the government begin to cut various incentives. For example, cars that have a driving range of less than 300 kilometers (about 186 miles) saw their incentives reduced. 
      “Government policy has a huge impact over the new-energy vehicle sector and every adjustment made on the policy front over the next two years will result in tremendous changes in the industry,” Li Yixiu, sales chief for Beijing Electric Vehicle Company earlier this month.
      "We believe there isn’t a chance for carmakers to raise prices to make up for the reduction of government fundings. Instead, we have to come up with competitive new products and services to respond.”
      Source: Bloomberg
    • By William Maley
      The Ford Fusion will be going away in due course as part of the company's plan to put more focus on utility vehicles and trucks. But that doesn't mean the Fusion name will heading to the trash bin.
      Bloomberg has learned from sources that Ford is planning to move the Fusion name to a new wagon that will compete with the Subaru Outback. The new model will also use the same mechanical underpinnings as the current Fusion - leading us to believe that it will be some version of the Mondeo wagon sold in Europe. Ford spokesman Mike Levine declined to comment on the new model, but did say the Fusion name would continue "because of its awareness, positive imagery and value with consumers.”
      Ford needs a way to keep their current sedan buyers returning their showroom after the Fusion sedan drops out. Analysis done by Kelly Blue Book revealed the less than half of Fusion owners are loyal to the brand. KBB also found that the Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4 were the most popular SUV models that Fusion owners would consider.
      “Ford has a hard time moving people from their cars to SUVs,” said Michelle Krebs, a senior analyst with Autotrader.
      Source: Bloomberg (Subscription Required)

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      The Ford Fusion will be going away in due course as part of the company's plan to put more focus on utility vehicles and trucks. But that doesn't mean the Fusion name will heading to the trash bin.
      Bloomberg has learned from sources that Ford is planning to move the Fusion name to a new wagon that will compete with the Subaru Outback. The new model will also use the same mechanical underpinnings as the current Fusion - leading us to believe that it will be some version of the Mondeo wagon sold in Europe. Ford spokesman Mike Levine declined to comment on the new model, but did say the Fusion name would continue "because of its awareness, positive imagery and value with consumers.”
      Ford needs a way to keep their current sedan buyers returning their showroom after the Fusion sedan drops out. Analysis done by Kelly Blue Book revealed the less than half of Fusion owners are loyal to the brand. KBB also found that the Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4 were the most popular SUV models that Fusion owners would consider.
      “Ford has a hard time moving people from their cars to SUVs,” said Michelle Krebs, a senior analyst with Autotrader.
      Source: Bloomberg (Subscription Required)
    • By dfelt
      We are in the Golden Age of Auto's with a revolution that will see the gentle passing of ICE Auto's as they are replaced by the EV Auto. With today's small 2% plus market share, the EV auto is having a major impact on auto suppliers. 
      According to the director of product development, filtration and engine peripherals J.D. Kehoe of Mahle Filter Systems of North America, the ICE downsizing, 48V Hybridization and electric traction motors are affecting the development of future powertrains. Mahle's corporate strategy is to keep on top of all trends supporting the wide variety of options and yet that also comes with the added danger that if you make the wrong call, a company could be on the hook for millions of dollars in parts cost if they build and support the wrong tech version of any given powertrain.
      You have the success of the Chevrolet Bolt, Nissan Leaf and Tesla making up the 2-3% of global deliveries today and by 2023 the auto industry expects to have 205 EV models on the market replacing many ICE models.
      Manufactures have a wide range that specify from 200V to 400V based on the battery packs with each electric motor up to 134HP depending on vehicle design. 
      Mahle has grown their EV portfolio to off EV-oriented technology to OEM customers from high-voltage liquid cooled electric traction motors  that operate in the 400V to 800V range with power output up to 240HP with unlimited lifetimes as they are brushless designs that require little to no maintenance and they are working to increase their motors power density to have offerings up to supercar level.
      Mahle offers 48V IPM synchronous electric motors that can operate in a range of 42V to 52V to meet the needs of various designs for mild hybrid applications.
      Areas of instant growth that Mahle and other auto suppliers are hiring for is in needs of electric AC and heater systems that are low voltage demanding along with leak detection devices as all the new closed system EV systems have a new wave of monitoring to optimize performance / efficiency. 
      Example of this is the need to monitor battery-cell electrolytes that must not come in contact with water or humidity from the cooling system.
      While powertrains are expected to reduce as much as 75% in complexity and parts compared to ICE powertrains, electronics are expected to expand greatly in the various uses from monitoring subsystems to safety and occupant comfort.
      As auto companies look to reduce weight, use new technology material like carbon fiber and high strength plastics the needs to adjust and change quickly means the nimble suppliers will win the evolving change in consumer / commercial auto's.
      Wards Auto Story
      Mahle web site
  • My Clubs

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Reader Rides

About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We ♥ Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.