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But maybe the new (butter-)face of the F/L E Class will... The materials for the interior in the Stinger is better than in the Telluride. Also, unlike what Kia NA had expected, it's the higher-priced 3.3TT V6 Stinger that sells. The Genesis brand was only founded 4 years ago. 3.5 years is a pretty turn around to develop a new model - the GV80, esp. one w/ an all-new platform, new engines, rash of new tech, etc. Speaking of platforms, the reason why didn't develop a CUV earlier is b/c they needed to develop a lighter-weight platform first to compensate for the increased weight of a CUV; the outgoing Genesis G80 was already on the heavy side as is, so basing the GV80 on the old platform would have made for a heavy, fuel-thirsty CUV. Also, the new lighter-weight platform was developed so that it can also incorporate a BEV powertrain (which is on top of having additional EVs on a dedicated BEV platform). The eG80 is already undergoing testing and Genesis has filed for trademarks for an eGV80, etc., so Genesis will have a full lineup of electrics before any of the Japanese lux makes. That doesn't seem like incompetency to me (not that there hasn't been missteps at Genesis USA w/ regard to the retail network, which is why management has changed). As for starting w/ 3 sedans (putting aside the platform weight thing), that's what the domestic market dictates. SKorea is one of the largest and most profitable markets for MB and BMW when it comes to selling the E/S Class and 5/7 Series. MB sold 10k E Class in SK in a 3 year period. Strong domestic market sales (which correlates w/ Genesis continuing to invest and upgrade; something that the Japanese and American makes did not do). For most of its run, the Genesis/G80 has placed 3rd in its segment, ahead of the A6, and should do so again w/ the new model. And w/ all the non-European competition gone or half-way out the door, the buyers in this segment who want something other than a Euro will only have one choice. Genesis has around 10k pre-orders for the GV80 and that's before any real national advertising campaign/commercials.

CT5 Sport starts at $43K. It's not going to sell that low. CT5-V starts at $49K. It's not going to sell that low. CT5-V AWD starts at $51K. It's not going to sell that low. My local dealer has 15 listed on their website. 13 are over $50K, so there goes your 'commonly $45K, $46K, $47K, $48K, $49K' out the window. The bulk are $52-54K. The top 2 are stickered at $64K and $66K. Blackwing not released yet.

A Mercedes E Class... But not really. A CT5 is truly a luxury vehicle. Unlike the E Class... The thing is...the CT5 is NOT a mundane, mass produced, plebeian, every day Average Joe, utilitarian taxi cab sedan in its home country like the E Class is in its home country... So...what do we compare the E Class to? A Dodge Charger? Yeah...Im comfy with that comparison! You know...the Charger reaches high dollar price tags...JUST like the E Class. You know...the Charger is also a mundane, mass produced, plebeian, every day Average Joe, utilitarian taxi cab/police car sedan in its home country... JUST like the E Class in Germany... Both are RWD. AWD. Both have adequate horsepower V6s. Both have high powered V8s. Yeah....an E Class is a Charger competitor. Awesome!

'57 DeSoto Adventurer nonchalantly chillin' next to service station. 1 of 300 built, it has sold as high as $340,000.

I JUST illustrated how those numbers are incorrect.

wrong wrong wrong. In Germany either. The E Class is sold at Charger prices in Germany... I guess when it comes to your arguments...you like to play both sides of the fence. But you know... a very IMPORTANT CRITERIA of LUXURY is the contrary of what you say... VOLUME is the very OPPOSITE of luxury. So in THAT context, because THAT is what YOU are discussing...LUXURY...that statement above is... WRONG!!! WRONG... Theis COVID thing will put a damper in E Class sales in the US... Dont be surprised that the E Class might be canceled in the US in a year... 1. its a sedan in a SUV world 2. new vehicle sales will be down drastically 3. Mercedes has to pay its huuuuge diesel scandal fines in Germany in the following months... Cost cutting was well on its way before the Covid thing, and now in the very near future, like in the next couple of months, it will be a very painful reality for Mercedes... 4. Mercedes before the Covid thing was cash strapped...Im afraid to ask what is happening now...

The CT5 target market is non-taxi, non-police force agencies. Unlike the E Class... I guess the target market would be folk that could afford its luxury price tag on a car that is JUST luxury. The E Class is sold in its home market to police forces and taxi cab companies....much like the Dodge Charger is here in North America. And the E Class, much like the Dodge Charger, has got expensive versions to sell to those that want a little bit more speed and style than the taxi cab and police car versions... Also...the E Class has plebeian models too, that sell to Average Joes in the mainstream market. Much like the Charger... The CT5, does NOT have mainstream versions. Like at all... So there is that...

wrong A Mercedes E Class... But not really. A CT5 is truly a luxury vehicle. Unlike the E Class... The thing is...the CT5 is NOT a mundane, mass produced, plebeian, every day Average Joe, utilitarian taxi cab sedan in its home country like the E Class is in its home country... So...what do we compare the E Class to? A Dodge Charger? Yeah...Im comfy with that comparison! You know...the Charger reaches high dollar price tags...JUST like the E Class. You know...the Charger is also a mundane, mass produced, plebeian, every day Average Joe, utilitarian taxi cab/police car sedan in its home country... JUST like the E Class in Germany... Both are RWD. AWD. Both have adequate horsepower V6s. Both have high powered V8s. Yeah....an E Class is a Charger competitor. Awesome!

This thread has been hijacked anyway talking about Mercedes more than Genesis...on TWO occasions. So to derail it further and perhaps in a more interesting topic... Not really a slow news day. Delta airlines is retiring all of its Boeing 777s. That is a big blow to Boeing as Delta is also going to replace their fleet of 777s with relying on their Airbus A350-900s with their longer routes and for their smaller routes with the Airbus A330. Delta says that both Airbuses are more fuel efficient and cost effective than the 777.

*sigh* slow news day

M340injected is the top trim/performance model in the 3-series. But NONe of the 3 American models you compared it to are the top performance models. That’s the problem.

wrong wrong wrong bolded part is... wrong

Answer this question; how many luxury vehicles are sold with zero options? If your answer is (rightfully) 'none', then how is base MSRP a factor in any way if that number is never paid? - - - - - merceds is likely too small/ cramped/ underpowered/ old to be cross-shopped. It was refreshed for '20 but I doubt consumers do anything but assume it's the same since 2013. toyoter people shun luxury vehicles. According to your narrative, the TLX doesn't compete because it's FWD (same with the CLA).

Here we go again with that same broken, invalid comparison of base MSRPs.

So an E, 5, or A6 start at $54k with zero options, which we know doesn’t exist and every is extra in a German car. Mercedes charges $200 for wireless phone charging which is ridiculous, for $54k that should be included. So what are those 3 transacting at? You get to $70k real quick while still with a 4-cylinder engine on those cars and 4-cylinder sucks for a luxury car so you need the 6, now it is $80k.

Cadillac states the CT5 is a C-class, A4, 3-series, G70 competitor. On price the CT5 and G70 match up very closely, but the CT5 is the size of a G80. I think the G80 is nicer than a CT5, CT5 and G70 are about equal I think, depends on how big a car you want. I think the Cadillac will sell better as it is 1 car covering 2 segments basically and has more recognizable brand name and dealer network. On a side note a BMW M340i has a 3.8 second 0-60 time, that's not only a full second faster than a CT5-V, it is faster than a Camaro SS or Mustang GT. This is the big separator with the Germans and these other guys, the performance isn't there. Genesis isn't going to make a sedan that fast, let alone an M3 competitor. Cadillac at least has tried with the V-series to make some fast cars, but they could still do more, like V-series SUVs, etc.